Liberals, why can't someone choose their race?

morse86

Junior Member
Aug 2, 2014
2,215
619
37
✟60,258.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
You mean like this one:
Mat 1:1 This is a record of the life of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Mat 1:2 Abraham fathered Isaac, Isaac fathered Jacob, and Jacob fathered Judah and his brothers.
Mat 1:3 Judah fathered Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez fathered Hezron, Hezron fathered Aram,
Mat 1:4 Aram fathered Amminadab, Amminadab fathered Nahshon, and Nahshon fathered Salmon.
Mat 1:5 Salmon fathered Boaz by Rahab, Boaz fathered Obed by Ruth, Obed fathered Jesse,
Mat 1:6 and Jesse fathered King David. David fathered Solomon by the wife of Uriah,
Mat 1:7 Solomon fathered Rehoboam, Rehoboam fathered Abijah, Abijah fathered Asaph,
Mat 1:8 Asaph fathered Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat fathered Joram, Joram fathered Uzziah,
Mat 1:9 Uzziah fathered Jotham, Jotham fathered Ahaz, Ahaz fathered Hezekiah,
Mat 1:10 Hezekiah fathered Manasseh, Manasseh fathered Amos, and Amos fathered Josiah.
Mat 1:11 Josiah fathered Jechoniah and his brothers at the time of the deportation to Babylon.
Mat 1:12 After the deportation to Babylon, Jechoniah fathered Salathiel, Salathiel fathered Zerubbabel,
Mat 1:13 Zerubbabel fathered Abiud, Abiud fathered Eliakim, Eliakim fathered Azor,
Mat 1:14 Azor fathered Zadok, Zadok fathered Achim, Achim fathered Eliud,
Mat 1:15 Eliud fathered Eleazar, Eleazar fathered Matthan, and Matthan fathered Jacob.
Mat 1:16 Jacob fathered Joseph, the husband of Mary, who was the mother of Jesus, who is called the Messiah.


No, you don't seem to understand. The bible states to stay away from genealogies debates because it is so pointless.

Titus 3:9 - But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
1 Timothy 1:4 - Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Radrook
Upvote 0

civilwarbuff

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 28, 2015
14,615
7,113
✟614,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
No, you don't seem to understand. The bible states to stay away from genealogies debates because it is so pointless.

Titus 3:9 - But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
1 Timothy 1:4 - Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].
I don't understand....what genealogy debate was going on?
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

Dis Member
Aug 28, 2007
23,602
15,760
Colorado
✟433,127.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
OK, be disingenous if you really want and ignore what is being discussed here.....
I understand your point perfectly.

But many of your examples work against your point.
And I will use that to full effect.
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,521
2,609
✟95,463.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
their educational level?.....their job experience?......their ability to operate a motor vehicle?
These ones are choices, to varying extents. I chose not to get a driver's licence because I felt that it would take me too long to be proficient at driving, and that I would be a danger to both myself and others for far too long to be acceptable. However, it is not physically impossible for me to become a "good driver", I just have coordination problems thanks to autism that make learning physical tasks (weird to think of them as learned, but they are) take an excessive amount of time for me. I could have chose to keep going and trying anyways, and perhaps a decade later than most I would have been a safe driver, but I viewed it as too much of a waste of time and money to do it.

Education level is partly a choice, though can be constricted by economic factors. Those with educational opportunities choose to pursue them, or at the very least, whether or not they are going to put in the effort to get the most out of them. Similar application towards job experience.
 
Upvote 0

[serious]

'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
Site Supporter
Aug 29, 2006
15,100
1,716
✟72,846.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But we do get lions and tigers and bears from a common ancestor, and seals and walruses too... OH MY!!!!!!

:rolleyes:
Yeah, but they're all still mammals. You never see a reptile come from a mammal ancestor!
 
Upvote 0

The Cadet

SO COOL
Apr 29, 2010
6,290
4,743
Munich
✟45,617.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
It is really funny how you guys grasp at any little article posted on the net to justify your beliefs....

Look, my patience was wearing thin last night, and right now it's still pretty thin. You claimed that dishonesty is solely the reprive of humans. Well guess what: monkeys lie. Apes lie. Dolphins lie. You're just wrong. I'm not grasping at straws here, you just made a claim which is blatantly false and I corrected you on it.
 
Upvote 0

muichimotsu

I Spit On Perfection
May 16, 2006
6,529
1,648
36
✟106,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
You kinow what we are discussing here...choosing something for yourself that is not true. I can say I am a Ph.D when I am not.....I can say I have X amount of job experience when I don't.....I am 65 and eligible for SS & Medicare when I am not.....etc......all lies.....
Except gender is not nearly so cut and dry as your physical age, level of education and job experience that can be demonstrably proven. Gender is based on societal expectations and understandings of what is meant by feminine or masculine, what is expected of you to do as a man or woman and enforcing a binary structure that's as silly as fitting everyone into neat racial categories
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

muichimotsu

I Spit On Perfection
May 16, 2006
6,529
1,648
36
✟106,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
As to the OP's question, I arguably already posted in regards to an answer, though others have gone into more detail with how race is far more diverse and relative than gender, even though the latter is similarly culturally conditioned, though we're finding that it's less common to have the strict expectations that used to exist regarding male and female gender roles, for example, not to mention what constitutes being masculine or feminine or what solidly makes one a man or a woman, rather than male or female, though there are 4 other common sexes based on chromosomal variations.
 
Upvote 0

Gracchus

Senior Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
7,198
821
California
Visit site
✟23,182.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Yeah, but they're all still mammals. You never see a reptile come from a mammal ancestor!
You don't see it in the fossil record or in the DNA, because reptiles and mammals descended from a common ancestor. That is what we do see in the fossil record and the DNA. Indeed, some mammals still lay eggs. Humans are still apes. Mammals are still vertebrates. If you did see a mammal give birth to a reptile that would be evidence against evolution.
Your ideas of biology are not only uninformed but misinformed. It is another demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. This is where one is too ignorant to be able to understand just how ignorant one is.

:doh:
 
Upvote 0

[serious]

'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
Site Supporter
Aug 29, 2006
15,100
1,716
✟72,846.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You don't see it in the fossil record or in the DNA, because reptiles and mammals descended from a common ancestor. That is what we do see in the fossil record and the DNA. Indeed, some mammals still lay eggs. Humans are still apes. Mammals are still vertebrates. If you did see a mammal give birth to a reptile that would be evidence against evolution.
Your ideas of biology are not only uninformed but misinformed. It is another demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. This is where one is too ignorant to be able to understand just how ignorant one is.

:doh:
Sure, mammals and reptiles might have descended from a common ancestor, but they're still just vertebrates. You never see a vertebrate turn into an invertebrate.
 
Upvote 0

Gracchus

Senior Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
7,198
821
California
Visit site
✟23,182.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Sure, mammals and reptiles might have descended from a common ancestor, but they're still just vertebrates. You never see a vertebrate turn into an invertebrate.
I did once see a human being turn into a Republican.

:sigh:
 
  • Like
Reactions: muichimotsu
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Eudaimonist

I believe in life before death!
Jan 1, 2003
27,482
2,733
57
American resident of Sweden
Visit site
✟119,206.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
Why can't Rachel Dolezal be black?

In what sense? She's not black in the commonly accepted sense of the term, and wishes don't change reality.

Presumably, she identifies "inside" as a black person. I had a girlfriend like that. I can't tell her that she's wrong about that. She might very well feel like a black person and identify with black people.

Hey, just be glad she isn't telling you that she's a dragon.

Why does it matter if someone's parents and grandparents or direct lineage is majority European descent if they sincerely identify with being black? Sooner or later you guys will need to be consistent.

Which guys? I doubt that most liberals think that Rachel Dolezal can be black in the conventional sense just because she says so. Liberals aren't one monolithic block.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Upvote 0

Kylie

Defeater of Illogic
Nov 23, 2013
14,681
5,241
✟302,107.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Why can't Rachel Dolezal be black? Why does it matter if someone's parents and grandparents or direct lineage is majority European descent if they sincerely identify with being black? Sooner or later you guys will need to be consistent.

One. Because what we call "race" is usually based on things like where a person's family came from (even if they themselves were not born there) and their skin colour.

Two. Because scientifically speaking, there's really no such thing as "race". There is no genetic marker that all Asian people have that no other "race" has. There's no tell tale genetic marker for being white, or black or anything else. Race is an illusion created by society.
 
Upvote 0

Radrook

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2016
11,536
2,723
USA
Visit site
✟134,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
But the construct of race (at least in the US) does not appear to be built on genetics; least ways I have never read/heard anything supporting that. It is based instead on lineage; how many of your ancestors were of such a background and how recent. Native Americans take the same approach to tribal membership. It requires a certain amount of blood relations to pass the % threshold to be admitted as a member. Several months ago there was a big brouhaha in the OK (IRCC) Cherokee tribe where they increased the % necessary to be part of the tribe excluding many people from receiving a financial settlement or such. Genetics has little to do with it....
I once encountered a person at a health clinic who looked 100% sub Saharan Black and who kept proudly referring to himself as a native American. The nurse, who was African American, kept angrily glaring at him but that didn't seem to faze him one bit as he went on about how everyone was blaming his people for cancer derived from tobacco usage when his people-the Native Americans, had only used it ceremoniously.
 
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
8,654
9,627
✟241,002.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Liberals, why can't someone choose their race?

I'm a liberal. Here is my response.

1. Why do you imply that liberals claim someone can't choose their race?
2. I have no problem with someone identifying with a particular race.
3. As noted by others, race is an artificial categorisation that is vague, generally unscientific and possessed of a strong cultural component.
4. As a consequence the reason that it would be very difficult for someone to choose their race is that "society" would object if that choice conflicted with how "society" saw the character of the chosen race versus the character of the chooser.

If you have a problem with that then direct your questions to society not just liberals.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: muichimotsu
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Radrook

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2016
11,536
2,723
USA
Visit site
✟134,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Liberals, why can't someone choose their race?

I'm a liberal. Here is my response.

1. Why do you imply that liberals claim someone can't choose their race?
2. I have no problem with someone identifying with a particular race.
3. As noted by others, race is an artificial categorisation that is vague, generally unscientific and possessed of a strong cultural component.
4. As a consequence the reason that it would be very difficult for someone to choose their race is that "society" would object if that choice conflicted with how "society" saw the character of the chosen race versus the character of the chooser.

If you have a problem with that then direct your questions to society not just liberals.
You are right. It has nothing to do with politics. It is simply a USA African American/Anglo American cultural thing.
 
Upvote 0