.
- Thread starter jimmyjimmy
- Start date
-
- Tags
- cliche gods voice prayer
sunlover1
Beloved, Let us love one another
- Nov 10, 2006
- 26,146
- 5,348
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
Indeed, yet all of those who hear Him do "get it", so don't be discouraged!
And I too have had God speak to me before, not really understanding that
it was so I would war in the heavenliness on behalf of someone.. I too felt
bad later. But it's a learning experience and now we know that when He
shows us things like that we can 'stand' and pray!
Upvote
0
Peter J Barban
Well-Known Member
sunlover1, that is a great testimony! Sometimes healing is a spiritual gift, which it seems you have, sometimes it's the children's bread, given by a loving heavenly father.Been praying for healing for so many years.
First time was when my baby was burning up with fever and probably
couldn't breathe very well iirc. It was the middle of the night and I was
kind of scared. Then I remembered that Jesus had said:
Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him. 24"Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.
So I prayed and I believed and I received.
That was the first time I watched God's Word work.
The first time i was a DOER of His Word!
I went on to have some more babies and many years of praying
for their health. Every time someone fell ill or any trouble, we prayed!
Can say that there was about a 10 year space, that, with 8 children,
there were no doctor visits. Some of my kids don't even have another
doctor after God. I have no other Physician.
Doctors are the third leading cause of death in USA. Aint nobody got
time for that!
It is one thing to believe that we have a complete Bible so we don't need God to speak personally to us, its another to believe that God stopped helping his children in any way apart from the Bible. The first mistake is theological/experimental. The second mistake comes from a heart of stone.
Upvote
0
- Jan 2, 2015
- 11,556
- 5,728
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Presbyterian
- Marital Status
- Married
In Mark 10 Jesus gives instructions to the apostles. He even names them, and I didn't see your name or mine in the list.
You would not read any other book the way you are attempting to here. It shows utter contempt for the author and an astounding degree of narcissism to read yourself into every page. The Bible is not about you (or me). You are reading someone else's mail and trying to make it your own.
In the below text, who gave the authority, and who has the authority to heal every disease and sickness? They are mentioned by name, so we don't need to guess.
Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
2These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,a drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
2These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,a drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
Upvote
0
That is not what the bible teaches. The bible teaches that scripture is sufficient for all matters of faith and conduct. We do not need further personal revelations (especially a type of revelation that is totally unbiblical - personal messages via your feelings/conscience).
Why do we need extra revelation when scripture is sufficient to thoroughly equip us for every good work?
2Tim 3:16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
Why do we need extra revelation when scripture is sufficient to gives us prosperous and successful lives?
Joshua 1:7-8 "This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success."
Why do we need extra revelation when scripture is sufficient for all the wisdom we need to teach and advise others?
Colossians 3:16 "Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another"
Why do we need extra revelation when scripture is sufficient to bless us in whatever we do?
James 1:25 "But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."
Why do we need extra revelation when scripture is sufficient to make us holy and spiritually perfect?
John 17:17 "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth."
Why do we need extra revelation when scripture is sufficient for us to lead godly lives?
2 Peter 1:3 "His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness."
Psalm 19:7-8
The law of the Lord is perfect, refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple.
The precepts of the Lord are right, giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant, giving light to the eyes.
The law of the Lord is perfect, refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple.
The precepts of the Lord are right, giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant, giving light to the eyes.
Upvote
0
Peter J Barban
Well-Known Member
swordsman1, you are not a good student of the Bible. While these are great verses, they don't mean what you say they do. None of these verses say that "scripture is sufficient" for the purposes you propose.
Each Bible verse that you quoted was followed by later revelation, such the book of Revelations. Obviously, these verses are not saying revelation ended at Joshua, Psalms, or 2 Timothy.
Without being overly insulting: you have proven once more that not everyone should be a teacher.
The Bible never says "scripture is sufficient", though it does say that God's power is sufficient in a verse that you quoted.
2 Peter 1:3 "His divine power has given us everything we need..."
Don't confused God with his word. One should be worshiped and one should be used. I think that you have chosen to worship the wrong one.
Upvote
0
Read them again.
Later books are still scripture so those verses equally apply to them as well.
You did not read the full verse....
2 Peter 1:3 "His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness."
What is the source of our knowledge of God? His divine power gives us everything we need through scripture.
Your resorting to ad hominem remarks only serves to prove my points are valid.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Peter J Barban
Well-Known Member
My main point is that scripture itself does not say that scripture is sufficient. Not only is this doctrine not in the Bible, it was not taught in the early church; instead the early church testified in Roman court that prophecy was still happening.
The Reformation church adopted the "Sufficiency of Scripture" argument to fight the Catholic Church. Until then, few believed it. If indeed the Bible is sufficient, what then is the church for? You are actually claiming that all you need is a Bible.
You are wrong on the Bible, wrong on logic, and wrong on history. I doubt you are even doing your own Bible study on this issue. It looks like you are cutting and pasting arguments from others. I don't think that you even understand the points they were trying to make.
You have made so many embarrassing mistakes, I suggest that you show this thread to your spiritual leaders and allow them to discipline you.
Upvote
0
Peter J Barban
Well-Known Member
I want to make vital point crystal clear: If the scriptures are sufficient, if they are all that is necessary, then the church is not necessary.
Is anyone here willing to go that far? If not, then the church is necessary and the scriptures are not sufficient. If we need both the scriptures and the church, then neither is sufficient alone.
Is anyone here willing to go that far? If not, then the church is necessary and the scriptures are not sufficient. If we need both the scriptures and the church, then neither is sufficient alone.
Upvote
0
I disagree. I think scripture says it loud and clear.
Of course the early church needed prophecy. They never had a completed NT in their churches.
The bible is God's all sufficient revelation for all matters of faith and conduct, as it plainly says. We do not therefore need new revelation. The church is for worship, prayer, bible study, fellowship, partaking in sacraments, etc. The church does not give us new revelation.
More ad hominem remarks. I'll just ignore them from now on.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Jan 2, 2015
- 11,556
- 5,728
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Presbyterian
- Marital Status
- Married
Scripture and church have two unique roles. The Bible is complete, but that does not negate the work teachers, preachers, leaders in the spreading of the gospel, baptizing and teaching. The Bible cannot baptize you, but it can tell you about baptism. One is not a replacement for the other. God gave us both.
Upvote
0
Peter J Barban
Well-Known Member
Let's consider these verses in relation to the sufficiency of Scripture.
1. 2Tim 3:16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
This does not say that the scriptures are sufficient. It says they are useful. Useful does not imply sufficient. This is bad logic.
2. Joshua 1:7-8 "This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success."
This does not say that the scriptures, especially the OT scriptures are sufficient. It says that obeying the Law of Moses will make one successful. Do you believe that is sufficient, today? It is not even talking about the rest of the Bible. This is just bad Bible study.
3. Colossians 3:16 "Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another"
Nothing about sufficiency here. Are you even reading these verses?
4. James 1:25 "But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."
We will be blessed if we abide by the perfect law. The perfect law is not synonymous with the Bible. It is referring the law of Christ which is written on our hearts. The Bible shows us some, but not all of the perfect law. In fact, the New Testament does not have a "law" section the way the OT does. Even if the perfect law = Bible, it is not talking about sufficiency.
5. John 17:17 "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth."
Another great verse that does not speak of sufficiency.
6. 2 Peter 1:3 "His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness."
Now we are exposing the lie of this theology. It substitutes God's power for God's word. This is a satanic level of confusion. Peter knew Christ in person, not through scripture. This verse clearly teaches that God's power is sufficient, it does not refer primarily to God's word.
7. Psalm 19:7-8 The law of the Lord is perfect, refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple.
The precepts of the Lord are right, giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant, giving light to the eyes.
Even though King David calls the law perfect, God sent a prophet to confront David's sin. Obviously, David needed more that the law to live a life that pleased God. In context, this is an anti-sufficiency verse.
The people who lived in Bible times did not believe the Bible was sufficient. They had priests and prophets, visions and dreams, rabbi's and pharisees, miracles and wonders to supplement the scriptures.
You say, things are different now because we have the finished Bible. Yes, the Bible is complete but nowhere does it affirm that the Bible is all we need. Nowhere does God say that he is going to stop interacting with us beyond the Bible.
Upvote
0
- Jan 2, 2015
- 11,556
- 5,728
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Presbyterian
- Marital Status
- Married
God says things are different now.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son,
An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed.
Upvote
0
sunlover1
Beloved, Let us love one another
- Nov 10, 2006
- 26,146
- 5,348
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
And "THESE" Days, He speaks through His Spirit, who will teach us all things:
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
"SEEKS"
Upvote
0
- Jan 2, 2015
- 11,556
- 5,728
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Presbyterian
- Marital Status
- Married
TWIST. DISTORT.
Notice the tense. It's past. The Holy Spirit does not give us new information, but old.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
sunlover1
Beloved, Let us love one another
- Nov 10, 2006
- 26,146
- 5,348
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
Love Eric Clapton, but before you accuse me
I don't twist Scripture. Ever! If I ever misunderstand it,
please do school me. He desires that we all know the truth.
No, it's future tense, but He speaks
of things He had taught them in the past.
Need to look more closely.
He will teach you all things
and which means ALSO
will remind you of all I have said to you
(already is implied here)
will teach you all things and
will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Upvote
0
Peter J Barban
Well-Known Member
I completely agree. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would guide, empower and comfort us. Somehow, I think the naysayers on this thread will ignore what Jesus says of the Holy Spirit and instead say that the Bible, not the Holy Spirit, is sufficient.
Upvote
0
- Jan 2, 2015
- 11,556
- 5,728
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Presbyterian
- Marital Status
- Married
Love Eric Clapton, but before you accuse me
I don't twist Scripture. Ever! If I ever misunderstand it,
please do school me. He desires that we all know the truth.
No, it's future tense, but He speaks
of things He had taught them in the past.
Need to look more closely.
He will teach you all things
and which means ALSO
will remind you of all I have said to you
(already is implied here)
will teach you all things and
will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Did the Holy Spirit teach you how to drive a car?
Upvote
0
sunlover1
Beloved, Let us love one another
- Nov 10, 2006
- 26,146
- 5,348
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
To me, it's so simple.
Father has gone to such lengths to tabernacle with us.
Gave His only Son, that we might be one, as they are one.
Yet, no communication! READ THAT BOOK and STOP
saying that Dad talks to us!
Hearing God is by faith, as is everything in the Kingdom
of God, but He sure does continue to talk to us, Sometimes
without words He can speak quite loudly too. Got myself a
real whooping last year! It only took but one to convince me
of the error of my ways! smh
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
