What happens when we die?

SkyWriting · Mar 28, 2016

Imagican said:
But what does the Bible offer concerning the time between 'dying' and 'judgement'?

Time would not exist there. - Pithy answer

Sleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep
in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope

Psalm 76:5 Our boldest enemies have been plundered. They lie before us in the sleep
of death. No warrior could lift a hand against us.

2 Samuel 7:12 And when your days be fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers

Imagican · Mar 28, 2016

SkyWriting said:
Time would not exist there. - Pithy answer

Sleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep
in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope

Psalm 76:5 Our boldest enemies have been plundered. They lie before us in the sleep
of death. No warrior could lift a hand against us.

2 Samuel 7:12 And when your days be fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers

Ah, see this is exactly my point. The Bible basically 'states' that we will 'all sleep'. And any and everyone that has ever dreamed knows that time becomes distorted and of no actual effect when we 'sleep'. A dream that lasts only seconds can seem like hours. Or hours of dreaming can seem like seconds....................once we are awake the 'time' we were dreaming never matches the 'time' we were asleep.

Blessings,

MEC

SkyWriting · Mar 28, 2016

Imagican said:
Ah, see this is exactly my point. The Bible basically 'states' that we will 'all sleep'. And any and everyone that has ever dreamed knows that time becomes distorted and of no actual effect when we 'sleep'. A dream that lasts only seconds can seem like hours. Or hours of dreaming can seem like seconds....................once we are awake the 'time' we were dreaming never matches the 'time' we were asleep.

Yes. So what is the impact of this point?

Radrook · Mar 28, 2016

Dreaming only takes place during REM [rapid=eye-movement] sleep which occurs at the point where one is beginning to fall asleep and when emerging from deep dreamless sleep. Most of the time we are in the dreamless stage. The reason we think we spent the whole night dreaming is because we can't recall the dreamless portion. If indeed death is analogous to sleep in every detail, then most of our sleep in death would be dreamless.

Justme · Mar 28, 2016

Imagican said:
I have so often heard uttered at funerals, 'He or She is in heaven now'.

Is that really what happens when we die?

For I have also heard those that KNEW that the person that died was totally 'anti Christ', "He or she is in heaven with God now". So regardless of one's beliefs about what happens to us when we die, certainly this doesn't pertain to those who will be judged according to 'death'. Certainly 'they' won't be in heaven with God.

But what does the Bible offer concerning 'death' of the 'body'? When we die, (or flesh), what happens to our Spirit or 'soul'?

Blessings,

MEC

The believer is taken to heaven at the time of their personal death. 2 COR 5:1. We know it is at death because John 11 :26 told Martha would never die. In other words she would live her physicl life on earth, physically die and then begon her eternal life in heaven right away.

Simple, except that is only how it is AFTER the last trump of 1 COR 15:51 to 53. After that last trump which was in the first century no one has to 'sleep' any more.
The 'sleep' reference is the state after physical death when people have to 'sleep' and wait for the resurrection of the dead. The 'sleep' aspect ends at the time of the last trump, 1 COR 15:51 to 53, after that last trump 2 COR 5:1 applies and we go to heaven immediately at our personal death. The last trump happened in 70 AD.

Justme

new prophecy · Apr 3, 2016

I'm not going to give scriptures , you have to research what I'm about to say. I can assure you that what I do write is within the perimeters of Christian thinking-but with a twist-or two.
Fear verses love.
Many Christian denominations like to use fear as a weapon for control.One which comes to mind is the notion of hell.
Its interesting to note that Paul never mentioned hell.Why? Because he was more inclined to believe that hell was a Greek pagan thought than a Jewish reality. Nevertheless, which ever way one puts it, hell is a separation from God which in itself can be very devastating for those who truly LOVE Him without fearing Him.
"Receive my spirit said Christ and Steven!"
God does now His children prior to the beginning of creation.You see our spirits have been evolving for millions of years from one dispensation to another having chosen obedience over disobedience. Man is made of body and soul.When we die are bodies rot in the ground never to return and our spirits which have been borrowed from God are handed back in better shape than was given."The oil in our lamps full!"

Our spirit person contains all the lessons we learned about unconditional love. The good thing is that our bad memories die with the body.There will come a time when God will open His books were our names are written. In our glorified new body everything that is thought will be a reality. For example'If you think of your favourite pet there it will be. This applies to all that you have loved.
Death is only a transition to those who love God.He is looking to make us angles to replace the ones He lost.But even angels have a choice of right from wrong - which is why we are judged daily so that we can be reminded of our misgivings and adjust our thinking accordingly.
Blessings.

Radrook · Apr 3, 2016

new prophecy said:
I'm not going to give scriptures , you have to research what I'm about to say. I can assure you that what I do write is within the perimeters of Christian thinking-but with a twist-or two.
Fear verses love.
Many Christian denominations like to use fear as a weapon for control.One which comes to mind is the notion of hell.
Its interesting to note that Paul never mentioned hell.Why? Because he was more inclined to believe that hell was a Greek pagan thought than a Jewish reality. Nevertheless, which ever way one puts it, hell is a separation from God which in itself can be very devastating for those who truly LOVE Him without fearing Him.
"Receive my spirit said Christ and Steven!"
God does now His children prior to the beginning of creation.You see our spirits have been evolving for millions of years from one dispensation to another having chosen obedience over disobedience. Man is made of body and soul.When we die are bodies rot in the ground never to return and our spirits which have been borrowed from God are handed back in better shape than was given."The oil in our lamps full!"

Our spirit person contains all the lessons we learned about unconditional love. The good thing is that our bad memories die with the body.There will come a time when God will open His books were our names are written. In our glorified new body everything that is thought will be a reality. For example'If you think of your favourite pet there it will be. This applies to all that you have loved.
Death is only a transition to those who love God.He is looking to make us angles to replace the ones He lost.But even angels have a choice of right from wrong - which is why we are judged daily so that we can be reminded of our misgivings and adjust our thinking accordingly.
Blessings.

Since you mention the concept of a fiery hell as being of pagan origin, here is a very informative article about the origins of the concept of an immortal soul which you might find interesting:

WHERE DID THE IDEA OF AN "IMMORTAL
SOUL" COME FROM?
http://www.thegrovebiblefellowship.com/_notes/2009/WhereDidTheIdeaOfAnImmortalSoulComeFrom.pdf

new prophecy · Apr 3, 2016

Radrook said:
Since you mention the concept of a fiery hell as being of pagan origin, here is a very informative article about the origins of the concept of an immortal soul which you might find interesting:

Thanks for that. Its interesting that when I was a JW most of what I read was there tent on the mortal soul.With exception.
They teach that the soul and spirit are the same, so that they can claim the the spirit if Michael was the same spirit incarnated in Jesus. But Christ said; Receive my spirit-not Michaels spirit. Be aware of the JW's.
Blessings.

Radrook · Apr 3, 2016

new prophecy said:
Thanks for that. Its interesting that when I was a JW most of what I read was there tent on the mortal soul.With exception.
They teach that the soul and spirit are the same, so that they can claim the the spirit if Michael was the same spirit incarnated in Jesus. But Christ said; Receive my spirit-not Michaels spirit. Be aware of the JW's.
Blessings.

Yes, I was once a baptized and very active member of that denomination so I am very familiar with their teachings. But please note that the sources which the article uses are not in any way related to JWs.

Concerning Michael being Jesus, yes they do teach that. However, they don't teach that the soul and spirit are the same.

The spirit or "ruah" that they mention isn't an actual conscious spirit creature but a force of life used to animate creatures. The breath of life was compared to jump-starting a car. I can easily prove it by going to their official website and posting examples derived from there. Were you just a beginning Bible student?

BTW
I'm not sure what you mean by "their tent on the mortal soul. With exception...?". To them a soul is merely the person himself or herself and not some invisible spirit entity dwelling in a material body.

Blessings!

InSpiritandTruth · Apr 4, 2016

Justme said:
The believer is taken to heaven at the time of their personal death. 2 COR 5:1. We know it is at death because John 11 :26 told Martha would never die. In other words she would live her physicl life on earth, physically die and then begon her eternal life in heaven right away.

Simple, except that is only how it is AFTER the last trump of 1 COR 15:51 to 53. After that last trump which was in the first century no one has to 'sleep' any more.
The 'sleep' reference is the state after physical death when people have to 'sleep' and wait for the resurrection of the dead. The 'sleep' aspect ends at the time of the last trump, 1 COR 15:51 to 53, after that last trump 2 COR 5:1 applies and we go to heaven immediately at our personal death. The last trump happened in 70 AD.

Justme

Rather..... [ˈraT͟Hər] ADVERB 1. used to indicate one's preference in a particular matter:

2 Corinthians 5:1-8
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Paul is choosing between 3 stages here, he is not saying this = that. It would be like someone telling their child that they have to eat their meat, their vegetables, and desert, but the child says, I would rather eat my meat and desert.

And..... [and, (ə)n] CONJUNCTION 1. used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences that are to be taken jointly:

John 11:26
24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

1 Corinthians 15:52- 53
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Is this not speaking of a physical resurrection?

EastCoastRemnant · Apr 18, 2016

Imagican said:
In order to answer the question posed, I believe that it's crucial that the 'time' of judgment be addressed.

From a Biblical perspective, what are we informed of as the 'time' of judgement taking place?

Is there to be more than one judgement?

And if there is only one 'time' of judgement, doesn't that mean that 'all' will be judged at 'that time'?

If our judgement determines who lives and who dies the second death, how then could anyone who has died be in heaven already?

So if no one has been judged yet and therefore no one is in heaven yet, what happens between the time our bodies die and we face judgment?

I already heard the perspective that we are judged immediately. But that isn't Biblical from what I have read. I believe that the Bible makes it perfectly clear that the 'time' of judgment will be one thousand years after Christ's return. So that in and of itself destroys the idea that we are all judged immediately after our bodies die.

So what happens to our souls or 'spirit' during the 'thousand years' between Christ's return and the 'time of judgment'?

Blessings,

MEC

Well, we know that the judgement happens before Christ comes again as He is said to have His reward with Him...

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

First, we must understand that Jesus is our high priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary....

Hebrews 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Now, notice, at the end of the passage it states that He is to make a reconciliation for the sins of the people... an atonement. To understand the work Jesus is doing as our High Priest, we need to look to the earthly sanctuary that was given to Moses as a perfect pattern of the Heavenly.
In Daniel 8:14 we see this time of the cleansing of the Heavenly Sanctuary, at the end of the 2300 days/years.... using the same point of commencement as the 70 week prophesy of Daniel nine, in 457 BC, we end this prophesy in the year 1844. At that time, the Christ came to the Holiest of Days and commenced His work of atonement for His people. For 1800 years He plead His blood upon the alter from the first apartment and now, the blood is to be sprinkled upon the Mercy seat to blot our the sins and place them upon Satans account (scapegoat). The Bible teaches that the investigative judgement of Gods people has been taking place since 1844 from Adams case up to the current day. During this time of the opening the books, if your name is found with no record against it, you are declared righteous and sealed for eternity.

DennisTate · Apr 25, 2016

Imagican said:
I have so often heard uttered at funerals, 'He or She is in heaven now'.

Is that really what happens when we die?

For I have also heard those that KNEW that the person that died was totally 'anti Christ', "He or she is in heaven with God now". So regardless of one's beliefs about what happens to us when we die, certainly this doesn't pertain to those who will be judged according to 'death'. Certainly 'they' won't be in heaven with God.

But what does the Bible offer concerning 'death' of the 'body'? When we die, (or flesh), what happens to our Spirit or 'soul'?

Blessings,

MEC

Google the near death experience of Dr. George Ritchie.

He meets Jesus during the time he flatlines and is shown what was going on in four higher dimensions of space - time.

I consider that his account clarified many difficult scriptures for me..... and got me out of my belief in "soul sleep."

vinsight4u · Apr 25, 2016

BobRyan · Apr 29, 2016

the dormant state of 1Thess 4 -

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

John 11 "our friend Lazarus SLEEPS I go that I may WAKE him"

vinsight4u · Apr 30, 2016

vinsight4u · Apr 30, 2016

BobRyan · Apr 30, 2016

vinsight4u said:
Jesus was noted as slept, but that did not mean
that His soul stayed in His dead body. He went
to the heart of the earth...hell.

he did not go to earth's magma - he did not go anywhere - neither heaven nor hell.

On the cross "It is finished" -- meant no more hell for Christ. Our debt of sin was paid in full.

In John 20 at his resurrection He states that He had not yet gone to the Father and would not be detained by anyone until then.

vinsight4u · Apr 30, 2016

vinsight4u · May 1, 2016

vinsight4u · May 1, 2016

What happens when we die?

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