Fireinfolding
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There you go, you study those who come after the apostles
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Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient
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There you go, you study those who come after the apostles
First post auto replied when my comp rebooted... then when I clicked to reproof Antelems, that post joined with the first post that I thought I lost...weird.
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I edited that post as it auto replied before I was done with it... the scripture showing it is now in the OP
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Isaiah 61:12,13
That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?
We know this is speaking of the church in the wilderness..
That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?
We know this is speaking of the church in the wilderness..
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patricius79
Called to Jesus Through Mary
I think that is the right attitude. Most of us don't know the languages of the early Christian writers, and Scripture is very deep. It's place is not for proof-texting, but for mystical reading in the Liturgy and in our spiritual lives, in union with the Magisterium of Catholic Tradition.
On one of these threads, someone quoted many saints and doctors of the Church regarding Mary's role as our Mediatrix with Christ. Once I see such things, I am confirmed in what the Church teaches about Mary, or whatever the topic is.
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That scripture is in dealing with someone in the church who has sinned against you... first you approach them yourself, then if there is no repentance and reconciliation, you invite elders into the discussion and finally the whole church. The final end is if the offending party does not repent and ask God's forgivness, they are to be put out of the church... how much apostasy in our churches (mine included) would have been avoided in this principle was done. It was intended to keep the church pure from defilement.
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Why are priests called Father even though they are not my biological father? Is it referring to a "spiritual father"? Because I have only one and a priest is not it.
The Lord's prayer is fine. It thinking your prayers will be better heard by reciting it over and over again. That is the issue.
How is that possible? Did Joseph and Mary adopt or was there a different mother?
The word "until" in the original greek was "heôs hos" Strongs Greek #2193, meaning "as far as", "to which". Thus making it the appropriate word to use.
It also does not say she was a "perpetual virgin"?
The original greek word used is "menoun" G3304 greek strongs meaning "nay", "rather", or "on the contrary ". The same word used in Job 7:15, psalm 52:3, psalm 84:10, Luke 17:8, Luke 18:14 and was used in the context for correction. The original greek does not just say "more blessed".
Latin is not the issue. It is intentionally preaching in a language not everyone can understand. If nobody can understand what is being said, what is the point. Up until a few decades ago, latin was the only language used during a mass. To this day, some churches still do it. I have been to a few. The scripture is saying not to do that because it is useless. It would be better to only say 5 words that people can understand than go through an entire mass where nobody can understand anything.
The Roman Catholic Church removing the Greek word "menoun" from Luke 11:28 and "heôs hos" in Matthew 1:23 are two examples.
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The 'church' is God's people not an organization. Christ is the Head and we are the body...
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patricius79
Called to Jesus Through Mary
The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth, and is an Organism/Organization. The Church is a living entity which has always been Catholic and has provided countless people with hope and healing through the Gospel, passed on through Sacred Tradition. She founded the first hospitals and the first universities, and--as I understand it-- kept the West from descending into complete barbarism after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. It's unfortunate that people focus on what Catholics did despite Church teaching, and not on the good Catholics did because of Church teaching.
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Through the body of believers, spoken to by the Holy Spirit, taught by those with the spiritual gifts and by the fellowship and edification of each other.
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God is the One that orders the affairs of men, not the church... the church didn't stop anything but that God ordained it. It could have been a group of teenagers if that's what God wanted.
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Thursday
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[QUOTE="EastCoastRemnant,?
hrough the body of believers, spoken to by the Holy Spirit, taught by those with the spiritual gifts and by the fellowship and edification of each other.[/QUOTE]
Which body of believers? There are thousands of protestant denominations and many don't agree with each other on central matters of the Christian faith. I don't think that's what Jesus meant when he promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth.
Jesus started a single Church. When did it become OK to disagree with this Church?
hrough the body of believers, spoken to by the Holy Spirit, taught by those with the spiritual gifts and by the fellowship and edification of each other.[/QUOTE]
Which body of believers? There are thousands of protestant denominations and many don't agree with each other on central matters of the Christian faith. I don't think that's what Jesus meant when he promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth.
Jesus started a single Church. When did it become OK to disagree with this Church?
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patricius79
Called to Jesus Through Mary
It's not correct to disagree with the Church, and if one knows better, and is psychologically free, it is seriously wrong. But Protestants often are profoundly devoted to Christ and simply don't know better. They believe that the basis of Christian doctrine is the Bible as interpreted by their group or by themselves. One of my favorite people--appropriately named "Mary"--is a Protestant Evangelical and is one of the best people I've ever known. She actually helps me to understand the sweetness of the Mother of God, Mary, better.
P.S. she's not really anti-Catholic either.
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Fireinfolding
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The punishment of the one guy in Corinth who had His fathers wife was inflicted on him by the many (even as he says, we who are many are one body, the church)
Jesus was speaking of tresspasses in the church order of things though
Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone:if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Which 1 Cr and 2 Cr as it pertains to the man who had his fathers wife was handled foolishly since it was "commonly reported" and how they responded to it.
Because at first Paul writes
1 Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
And this is how their not so wise were handling the situation
1 Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
Paul rebukes them for not judging this
1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Almost similarly as Jesus said
In letting him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. (on the outsider now)
Whereas by his next letter Paul was saying
2 Cr 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
So this punishment was inflicted by the many of them (the church) and they put him out from themselves shunning him according to both Pauls and Jesus instruction since they were not exercising wisdom in what they should have been grieved about (concerning this man's fornication).
2 Cr 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
This is what I love about this verse is that Paul is concerned that this mans grief would actually swallow the man up (even as he was made sorry). Its just how Paul expresses his concern for the man who had sinned in this manner.
2 Cr 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
2 Cr 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
Jesus was speaking of tresspasses in the church order of things though
Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone:if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Which 1 Cr and 2 Cr as it pertains to the man who had his fathers wife was handled foolishly since it was "commonly reported" and how they responded to it.
Because at first Paul writes
1 Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
And this is how their not so wise were handling the situation
1 Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
Paul rebukes them for not judging this
1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Almost similarly as Jesus said
In letting him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. (on the outsider now)
Whereas by his next letter Paul was saying
2 Cr 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
So this punishment was inflicted by the many of them (the church) and they put him out from themselves shunning him according to both Pauls and Jesus instruction since they were not exercising wisdom in what they should have been grieved about (concerning this man's fornication).
2 Cr 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
This is what I love about this verse is that Paul is concerned that this mans grief would actually swallow the man up (even as he was made sorry). Its just how Paul expresses his concern for the man who had sinned in this manner.
2 Cr 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
2 Cr 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
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