St. Paul Demonstrating Sola Scriptura In Scripture

It looks like the light Philip shed on it was Jesus Christ onto the OT text (that which he was already reading) as Jesus said they are they which testify of him, and Jesus had come into the world and departed from it and the Eunuch just didn't know Jesus (the light that lighteth every man) and Philip preached Jesus from Isaiah from where he was reading (and of whom they testified of) and apparently told him what Jesus said about believing and are baptized, so when they come to water that was something he wished to do (having believed in his heart). Philip baptized him and he was on his way, not seeing one another again, but the Eunuch was joyfully on his way.

Standing Up said:

So, you're invoking a double standard excuse. What was good enough for Christ, a Jew, isn't good enough for a Christian.



Hello? You haven't answered post #1875.

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fhansen said:

.... Phillip heard the word conveyed to him at some point, and was changed by it. He passed it on.

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In other words he fulfilled the great commission.

Exactly like what we see in Philip with the eunuch, as he was reading the testimony of the prophets of Christ (I edited this, just added more)

"They are they which testify of me"

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth:

he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,

and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Shown as the scripture the eunuch was reading in Acts 8:32 the one question unknown to him was who (specifically) was the prophet speaking of as shown in Acts 8:34

Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee,

"of whom" speaketh the prophet (even Isaiah) this?

of himself,

or of "some other" man?

He just didn't know who the prophet Isaiah was speaking of

But as Jesus had said (of the law and the prophets)

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life:
and they are they which testify of me. (1John 1:2)

The Eunuch wasn't alone in this (See Acts 13:27)

But now (having their eyes opened) we see the same being expounded through Philip

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

So it shows they preached Christ out of the prophets of old (which testified not only of him, but of what had just come to pass in their own day concerning his suffering and then entering into glory)

And we know this because they ask him earlier (not knowing it was him) this...

Luke 24:18... Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem,
and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

Being somewhat surprised because of their hopes, and they went on to recount what had occurred in their days (with Jesus Christ)

And then Jesus reproves them in those very things

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools,
and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets,
he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

As is also confirmed by them in Acts here

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Even here this way

Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after,
as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Then Jesus commissions them (as God has given Jesus as commander to them as shown in Isaiah 55:4) the one Moses wrote of (as Jesus said in John 5:46) shown here (in Duet 18:18-19) And confirmed in Acts 3:22 & Acts 7:37, which helps us to understand why Jesus said this here (In John 12:48- 49) and what is said here in Acts 3:24 Lastly, as we can springboard off of all the above seeing in Jesus praying to the Father in confirmation of the same, that "I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me" (even as the doctrine he preached was not his, but his that sent Him). And as the Father sent him so did he (their commander) as God the Father made him so sends them.

Mark 16:16 And he said unto them,
Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God, as the voices of the prophets testify of Jesus Christ through whom they did preach him

And he has given commandment to these saying,

Mark 16:17 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And then we see...

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where...

Same with how Philip was led to preach the same to eunuch

Acts 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, (being led by the Spirit) said

Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. (who was reading the book of Isaiah)

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him,
and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

And Philip preached Jesus out of Isaiah

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

And even what Jesus said, even as he understood it, concerning being baptized because we see that he is made aware of this

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest (be baptized). And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

At least we know where the Eunuch started reading, which was the book of Isaiah (these having the testimony of Christ in themselves). And as faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Jesus Christ is preached out of the same) as we see Philip beginning at the scripture written of him in Isaiah. Preaching Jesus Christ from them (so that the eunuch could believe). Philip having mentioned being baptized because the eunuch specifically brought this up to him (in his desire to be so) when he saw water and so he was. He both believed in Jesus Christ (through the testimony of the former prophets) God having fulfilled the same in those days even by Jesus Christ (of whom) they were all living witnesses to and he was baptized and went on his way rejoicing.

And just as we have Phillip expounding Jesus Christ out of the prophets

We see also in Apollos it shows

Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly,
shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

We see Paul expounding and testifying of the kingdom of God

Acts 28:23... "persuading them" concerning Jesus, "both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets", from morning till evening.

Even as our Lord said,

John 5:39 ...The scriptures... and they are they which testify of me.

The one leading you to Christ since he can be expounded out of them.

Standing Up said:

SS doesn't pretend to solve the problem of whose interpretation will one believe. It merely states the authority under which interpretation will succumb.

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice..

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By not resolving the problem, i.e. not being able to definitively point to a source whose interpretation is right, Scripture is rendered a mute authority. It cannot interpret itself; it cannot tell you or explain what it means to say when questions arise.

Standing Up said:

point you agreed to was the Bereans searched scripture. The Eunuch was reading scripture. Philip read/explained scripture to him. In no case is the magisterium (chair of Peter so-called) invoked, nor is tradition.

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Others read, Phillip explained. He was the magisterium (the teaching authority), or its minister in any case, gifted and commissioned to teach/spread God's word.

fhansen said:

By not resolving the problem, i.e. not being able to definitively point to a source whose interpretation is right, Scripture is rendered a mute authority. It cannot interpret itself; it cannot tell you or explain what it means to say when questions arise.

Others read, Phillip explained. He was the magisterium (the teaching authority), or its minister in any case, gifted and commissioned to teach/spread God's word.

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Was it the words of Philip that saved or was it the word of God that saved? That is what decifers the authority.
John 6:63
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

MoreCoffee said:

this thread has only 402 posts at the moment.

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other thread

fhansen said:

By not resolving the problem, i.e. not being able to definitively point to a source whose interpretation is right, Scripture is rendered a mute authority. It cannot interpret itself; it cannot tell you or explain what it means to say when questions arise.

Others read, Phillip explained. He was the magisterium (the teaching authority), or its minister in any case, gifted and commissioned to teach/spread God's word.

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Let's agree with your point, that there is a teacher. To what will he/she teach from? SS gives the answer. Do you understand this point yet?

What did Philip use? What did the Bereans use? To what do Christ, Peter, Paul, and the others point?

~Cassia~ said:

Was it the words of Philip that saved or was it the word of God that saved? That is what decifers the authority.
John 6:63
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

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The words of God, spoken through Phillip. But not everyone proclaims the word of God correctly. The Eunuch, for example, couldn't do so simply by reading Scripture. In whom, where, is the authority found?

Standing Up said:

Let's agree with your point, that there is a teacher. To what will he/she teach from? SS gives the answer. Do you understand this point yet?

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SS gives no answer. Teachers, as outlined in the NT were given to be such-and Christ teaches through them to this day. Scripture was never intended to be a catechism or a theological treatise. And this is why there's often much controversy, among well-intentioned people, as to its meaning.

Standing Up said:

What did Philip use? What did the Bereans use? To what do Christ, Peter, Paul, and the others point?

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Phillip used the revelation of Christ, yet to be recorded (and not all of it was recorded later), to explicate OT Scripture. Do you understand this point yet?

fhansen said:

SS gives no answer. Teachers, as outlined in the NT were given to be such.

Phillip used the revelation of Christ, yet to be recorded (and not all of it was recorded later), to explicate OT Scripture. Do you understand this point yet?

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Of course, I said, let's agree with your point of a teacher. But again, what was teacher Philip's source? As you agree, OT Scripture. The point is an example of SS as used in the transition time from old to new. Philip, Peter, Paul, Bereans, all used scripture as their authority. They practiced SS.

In Paul's Berean case, or in John's (Revelation), they tested the so-called apostles per the written word. They never assumed authority just because a person spoke. As Peter said, and as they knew, there were false prophets (OT), just as there will be false teachers (NT).

Standing Up said:

other thread

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Then try making your claim in the other thread AFTER you've read my reply

Bump post #1875 from other thread

SU: Leaving aside the question of the number of valid (God-breathed) OT books, would folks think the OT is lacking or is it complete for all things doctrinal and practice?

Yes, there may be interpretation, but the authority was scripture. Scripture is over which they might argue.

Yes, they may cite someone's tradition, but the authority was scripture. Not the tradition per se.

Here's Christ in Luke 24:27.
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Here's Peter in 2 Peter 1:21.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Here's Paul in Acts 26:22.
Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Everyone good? Any disagreement?

So, SS is in OT.

Standing Up said:

Of course, I said, let's agree with your point of a teacher. But again, what was teacher Philip's source? As you agree, OT Scripture. The point is an example of SS as used in the transition time from old to new. Philip, Peter, Paul, Bereans, all used scripture as their authority. They practiced SS.
Well most of the Jews of their time disagreed.
In Paul's Berean case, or in John's (Revelation), they tested the so-called apostles per the written word. They never assumed authority just because a person spoke. As Peter said, and as they knew, there were false prophets (OT), just as there will be false teachers (NT).

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Ok. And with all the different people over the centuries testing teachings against the word, which ones were right? The Arians? JWs? Calvinists? Arminians? Baptists? Anabaptists? With differing views on Christ's deity, justification, baptismal regeneration, free will, grace? Or is it you or me? Our interpretation that's necessarily the right one? Are we the modern-day Bereans?

fhansen said:

The words of God, spoken through Phillip. But not everyone proclaims the word of God correctly. The Eunuch, for example, couldn't do so simply by reading Scripture. In whom, where, is the authority found?

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In Jesus Christ. That had not been proclaimed to the eunich so the Holy Spirit had not the oppurtunity to come into his life to beget new life in others. There are stories of that eunich, going into Ethiopia and passing the Word on, was the beginning of the Ethiopian Orthodox church.
PS Most assuredly he brought the teachings from Isaaih relating to Christ with him.

fhansen said:

Ok. And with all the different people over the centuries testing teachings against the word, which ones were right? The Arians? JWs? Calvinists? Arminians? Baptists? Anabaptists? With differing views on Christ's deity, justification, baptismal regeneration, free will, grace? Or is it you or me? Our interpretation that's necessarily the right one? Are we the modern-day Bereans?

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Ya know there's a sure fired way to talk to JW's that don't get you trapped into their way of thinking and that is not to get off the subject of Christ. It's when teachers deviate from that topic as it relates to the bible as a whole that they get into confusion and misinformation.

fhansen said:

Ok. And with all the different people over the centuries testing teachings against the word, which ones were right? The Arians? JWs? Calvinists? Arminians? Baptists? Anabaptists? With differing views on Christ's deity, justification, baptismal regeneration, free will, grace? Or is it you or me? Our interpretation that's necessarily the right one? Are we the modern-day Bereans?

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SS is the idea that scripture is the final authority. Yes, various interpreters and interpretations have arisen over the centuries, including EO, RC, P, etc, but that does not negate SS. I highly doubt that they truly follow SS and come to opposite conclusions about beliefs, rather I suspect traditions, emotions, and love of money or preeminence is involved. It is a powerful thing to convince others that they do not have God's attention, but you do.

Standing Up said:

SS is the idea that scripture is the final authority. Yes, various interpreters and interpretations have arisen over the centuries, including EO, RC, P, etc, but that does not negate SS. I highly doubt that they truly follow SS and come to opposite conclusions about beliefs, rather I suspect traditions, emotions, and love of money or preeminence is involved. It is a powerful thing to convince others that they do not have God's attention, but you do.

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I think you know better than that. These forums alone prove that sincere people come up with a wide variety of interpretations with or without external influence-just by their own reading of it. But OTOH, who's to say just who has the truly objective interpretation and who does not? Or even if objectivity or a particular methodology are sufficient in and of themselves. And, speaking for EO and RC, a singular difference between them and P is that their interpretations are not based on Scripture alone.

I might add that, with the case of the Eunuch and Philip, or with the Bereans, there are multiple factors at hand:

- The Holy Spirit's gift of faith or the gift of eagerness to receive that gift within the hearer of the Gospel
- The pre-established trust of the 'Old Testament' scriptures, which at the time were the only well-known and defined or otherwise standardized compilation of scriptures
- The Holy Spirit working in the teachers of the Church, that is to say Paul and Philip
- Immersion in the culture of the time with all its idioms and otherwise out-of-band traditional knowledge

Scripture alone did not spread the Gospel. It was the Holy Spirit, working in and through the Apostles, that spread the Gospel to both the Jews who were acquainted with the only existing Scripture they had at the time, as well as the Gentiles who were ignorant of the Scriptures. And now today it is not Scripture alone which serves as the foundation for our faith, but yet again that Holy Spirit himself, working in the hearts of the faithful, who carry on the blessed Tradition of just which writings comprise the canon of Scripture -- for whether one of us on this forum or another more ancient person by means of a non-canonical letter has stated that such-and-such a book should be included in the canon of Scripture, that statement falls outside of the Scriptures themselves and is thus an extra-scriptural tradition.

Christ is not a stack of bound papers which may be deceitfully miscompiled, mistranslated or misinterpreted by both the sincere and the diabolical, but a living rock upon which his Church is built, and through which flows his Holy Spirit to his sheep.

ivebeenshown said:

I might add that, with the case of the Eunuch and Philip, or with the Bereans, there are multiple factors at hand:

- The Holy Spirit's gift of faith or the gift of eagerness to receive that gift within the hearer of the Gospel
- The pre-established trust of the 'Old Testament' scriptures, which at the time were the only well-known and defined or otherwise standardized compilation of scriptures
- The Holy Spirit working in the teachers of the Church, that is to say Paul and Philip
- Immersion in the culture of the time with all its idioms and otherwise out-of-band traditional knowledge

Scripture alone did not spread the Gospel. It was the Holy Spirit, working in and through the Apostles, that spread the Gospel to both the Jews who were acquainted with the only existing Scripture they had at the time, as well as the Gentiles who were ignorant of the Scriptures. And now today it is not Scripture alone which serves as the foundation for our faith, but yet again that Holy Spirit himself, working in the hearts of the faithful, who carry on the blessed Tradition of just which writings comprise the canon of Scripture -- for whether one of us on this forum or another more ancient person by means of a non-canonical letter has stated that such-and-such a book should be included in the canon of Scripture, that statement falls outside of the Scriptures themselves and is thus an extra-scriptural tradition.

Christ is not a stack of bound papers which may be deceitfully miscompiled, mistranslated or misinterpreted by both the sincere and the diabolical, but a living rock upon which his Church is built, and through which flows his Holy Spirit to his sheep.

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Yes John 6:63 says it's the Spirit that gives life and the flesh profits nothing.
Again reiterating from either this thread or the other (who can tell anymore) God has given scriptural prove of His ability to look after His own covenant Himself as evidenced in 1 Samuel 5 when He toppled Dagon.