Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

BobRyan

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I don't see what the huge deal is with the Sabbath being changed to the first day rather then the last.

And would you also agree that neither did the Jewish magisterium of Christ's day see that their little "tweeks" were really such a "big deal" in Mark 7??


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it is shown via "Sola Scriptura" testing that it is traditions and "doctrines of men" that are at odds with scripture.

It would have been impossible in Christ's day to find a single Pharisee, scribe or Sadducee claiming that they had abolished the Commandment to Honor parents by their traditions - but Christ points out that this is exactly what they had done.


In this case it is the "one true nation church started by God at Sinai" - - as all agree in Mark 7.

It symbolizes a new beginning, and the assumption of Christ. It represents the Sun and the Light bearer.

The Sabbath used to be to celebrate creation, but Jesus has it now to where we should take joy in Paradise, away from creation. So it even makes logical sense in due respect to what we are even making reverence of on the Sabbath.

Good intentions for editing God's Law - are not enough according to Christ in Mark 7.
 
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BobRyan

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The commandments of God are not limited to the ten commandments as you imply.

They are inclusive of them - as even the majority of pro-Sunday scholarship listed in my signature line - have admitted and as Paul insists in places like Eph 6:2.
 
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BobRyan

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bbbbbbb said:
Your church can claim to have any authority it wants, but it hardly means that it actually has that authority from God.

That's where you and I disagree, eh? :)

If "the mere claim" to have such authority were all it took -- a great many denominations would all "be right" no matter how conflicted their views with each other.
 
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Open Heart

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If "the mere claim" to have such authority were all it took

But of course there is more to it than a "mere claim" out of no where that the Church has authority, despite the fact that you might wish it so.
 
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BobRyan

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By Contrast to the "mere claim" of some denominations to change the Law of God in some way

- this condemnation by Christ of the Jewish leaders trying to "tweak" the Law of God - is right there for all of us to read.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


in Christ,

Bob
 
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Open Heart

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For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men
When we speak of the teachings of the Church, we are not talking about the mere traditions of men. The Church has been granted authority by God himself; the apostles were ordained by Christ, given the power to bind and loose, etc., and passed on their authority to their successors, the bishops. Scripture says it is the CHURCH which is the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Tim 3:15)
 
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When we speak of the teachings of the Church, we are not talking about the mere traditions of men. The Church has been granted authority by God himself; the apostles were ordained by Christ, given the power to bind and loose, etc., and passed on their authority to their successors, the bishops. Scripture says it is the CHURCH which is the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Tim 3:15)
Standard Roman answer.

Indeed, the church [the virgin bride [Rev. 12],
<Staff Edit> is the "pillar and ground of the truth".

Notice, that the church is the bride of the Husband, Jesus Christ, her Head, who Himself is the very foundation, the chief cornerstone, upon whom all is built, whose word is Law, unchanging, even as He. She is the body, not the Head, as satan would be [as verily as the anti-Christ, the in place of Christ on earth, even now is, and has been] and cannot "loose" a single Commandment of God, though an unfaithful "loose" woman, a sly harlot may seek to "bind" others to her in her grievous sins, through reward, and corrupt drink, and betray a husband, by seeking the Kings of earth to make laws in the place of God's Law, and rape the will of the people.

"ground" of "the Truth":

The word "ground" means:

1 Corinthians 7:37 KJV - Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

1 Corinthians 15:58 KJV - Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Colossians 1:23 KJV - If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;​

The Law of God is the Truth, unmovable, unchangeble:

Psalm 119:142 KJV - Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.

Psalm 119:151 KJV - Thou [art] near, O LORD; and all thy commandments [are] truth.

John 17:17 KJV - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Deuteronomy 4:2 KJV - Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Psalm 89:34 KJV - My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Exodus 20:1 KJV - And God spake all these words, saying,

Exodus 20:8 KJV - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:9 KJV - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exodus 20:10 KJV - But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Exodus 20:11 KJV - For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​

It is blessed forever:

1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV - Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and [it shall be] blessed for ever.​

Yet Rome has moved far from the grace of God, she is "fallen, fallen", and so all her daughters with her:

Revelation 2:20 KJV - Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Revelation 2:21 KJV - And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Revelation 2:22 KJV - Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 2:23 KJV - And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.​
 
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BobRyan

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When we speak of the teachings of the Church, we are not talking about the mere traditions of men.[ The Church has been granted authority by God himself;

Same thing the Jews of Christ's day were saying about their own supposedly sacred infallible tradition.

We grant that they would be able to say that " as a given " -- we just don't accept it.

the apostles were ordained by Christ, given the power to bind and loose, etc., and passed on their authority to their successors,

The bible only speaks of one Apostolic successor -- it was not pretty.

Scripture says it is the CHURCH which is the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Tim 3:15)

No mention of the RCC in that text.

1 Cor 3 - "11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
 
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Open Heart

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Same thing the Jews of Christ's day were saying about their own supposedly sacred infallible tradition.
In Matt 23:1-3 Jesus DOES support the AUTHORITY of the Pharisees teaching from the seat of Moses, instructing his followers to be careful to do and observe ALL that they teach.

The bible only speaks of one Apostolic successor -- it was not pretty.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The bible does certainly speak of the ordaining of presbyters and bishops.

No mention of the RCC in that text.
The only church mentioned in the NT came to be called Catholic, and relatively quickly.

1 Cor 3 - "11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. 1 Tim 3:15
 
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BobRyan

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In Matt 23:1-3 Jesus DOES support the AUTHORITY of the Pharisees teaching from the seat of Moses, instructing his followers to be careful to do and observe ALL that they teach.

Because the people were unfortunate enough to be subjected to them - not because he considered the magisterium to be valuable or right.

Yet you appear to be claiming that as Christ viewed their authority - so do you view the RCC authority.

you may not be entirely wrong in that comparison.

Matt 16
The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
5 And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.
6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.
8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matt 23
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

So his condemnation of their efforts to "tweak" the Law of God - Mark 7:6-13 are a perfect fit overall with the way he described them in several places in the Gospel accounts.
 
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Open Heart

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Because the people were unfortunate enough to be subjected to them - not because he considered the magisterium to be valuable or right.
OMGosh! Are you saying Jesus was teaching his followers to submit to false teaching?
 
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When we speak of the teachings of the Church, we are not talking about the mere traditions of men. ...
I will show you whom you worship:

Let us look at these texts [Hebrews 5:4,5; Philippians 2:6-8; Ephesians 5:23-24; 1 Corinthians 11:3] and instead of applying them to physical woman, let us apply them to a spiritual woman, and so let us go 'up' one scale higher, and let us consider a whole 'body' of people, in other words, a Church, which symbolically/typologically is represented by a “woman” in scripture.

In Hebrews 5:5, we see clearly and without obfuscation that Christ Jesus “...glorified not himself to be made an high priest...”, for “...no man taketh this honour unto himself ...” [Hebrews 5:4;p] and in Philippians 2:6-8, that Jesus “...thought it not robbery to be equal with God...” and yet “...made himself of no reputation...” and so “...he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death...”.

Now according to 1 Corinthians 11:3, unequivocally that, “...the head of every man is Christ...”, “...the head of the woman [is] the man...” and even “...the head of Christ [is] God.”

Now we add to this the scriptures of Ephesians 5:23-24, in which it is given that “...the husband is the head of the wife...”, “...Christ is the head of the church...”, “...the church is subject unto Christ...” even so that it is plain in the equation that, “...the wives...” ought to be also subject “...to their own husbands in everything.”, obviously as “...in the Lord.” [Colossians 3:18;p]

So in comparison, we can go to the scriptures and see the very “fruits” [Matthew 7:16,20] of a Church that is not in harmony with these principles and character of Christ Jesus, and it is found in the very “...MOTHER OF HARLOTS...” in Revelation 17:5.

This 'body', this harlot 'woman', actually manifests in its very character the same as that of satan.

All names which in the scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” [Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (Full Italian name: Roberto Francesco Romolo Bellarmino (Canonized-1930 and Doctor of the Church (Jesuit))), Disputationes de Controversiis (aka: Disputationes de Controversiis Christianae Fidei adversus hujus temporis Haereticos) [Lectures Concerning the Controversies of the Christian Faith Against the Heretics of This Time], Tom. 2, “Controversia Prima,” Book 2 (De Conciliorum Auctoritate)[“On Authority of the Councils”], Chapter 17, (1628 ed.) Vol. 1, pp. 266-translated]

In Latin: “Secundo probatur ratione, in Scripturis fundata; nam omnia nomina, quae in Scripturis tribuuntur Christo, unde constat eum esse supra Ecclesiam, eadem omnia tribuuntur Pontifici.” [http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/10800...0015573_21.pdf]

It would have a mouth speaking blasphemy (as defined by scripture, "claiming to forgive sins", "claiming to be in the place of God") and great exalted words against and in the place of The Most High God [Daniel 7:8,25; Revelation 13:5-6, 17:5; John 10:33; Mark 2:7; Luke 5:21; 1 Timothy 2:5]

Why doth this [man] thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? - Mark 2:7

And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? - Luke 5:21

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. - John 10:33

This power, claims to be able to forgive sins, and claims to be in the place of God on earth:

“With regard to the mystic body of Christ, that is, all the faithful, the priest has the power of the keys, or the power of delivering sinners from Hell, of making them worthy of Paradise, and of changing them from the slaves of Satan into the children of God. And God Himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of His priests, and either not to pardon or to pardon, according as they refuse or give absolution, provided the penitent is capable of it. :“Such is,” says St. Maximus of Turin, “this judiciary power ascribed to Peter that its decision carries with it the decision of God.” The sentence of the priest precedes, and God subscribes to it, writes St. Peter Damian. Hence, St John Chrysostom thus concludes: The sovereign Master of the universe only follows the servant by confirming in Heaven all that the latter decides upon earth.” ...” - [St. Alphonsus Liguori C.SS.R. Doctor of the Church; “Dignities and Duties of the Priest”, Vol. 12, pp. 27; “Nihil Obstat. Arthur J. Scanlan, S.T.D., Censor Librorum - Imprimatur. + Patritius Cardinalis Hayes, Archiepiscopus Neo-Eboracensis - Die 24 Mar., 1927 - APPROBATION. - By virtue of the authority granted me by the Most Rev. Patrick Murray, Superior General of the Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer, I hereby sanction the publication of the work entitled "DIGNITY AND DUTIES OF THE PRIEST," which is Volume XII of the complete edition in English of the works of St. Alphonsus de Liguori.JAMES BARRON, C.SS.R., Provincial”- http://www.catholictradition.org/Priests/priesthood1-2.htm ]

"The pope's universal coercive jurisdiction... ... Moreover, the powers conferred in these regards are plenary. ... nothing is withheld. ... Further, Peter's authority is subordinated to no earthly superior. The sentences which he gives are to be forthwith ratified in heaven. They do not need the antecedent approval of any other tribunal. ... This judicial authority will even include the power to pardon sin. ... supreme power in this kingdom carries with it a supreme magisterium — authority to declare that doctrine and to prescribe a rule of faith obligatory on all. ... as subject to the authority of him who should be Christ's vicegerent on earth. .." [Online Catholic Encyclopedia, The Pope] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm

Notice please, that instead of letting God glorify her and being her glory, she “...glorified herself...” in complete opposition to the character of Christ Jesus in Hebrews 5:5:

How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Revelation 18:7​

In fact, this very 'woman' actually seeks to usurp, even by force, the high-priestly role/estate of Christ Jesus, for it is the:

[Greek]: anti [in the place of] christos [Christ],

[Latin]: vicarivs [in the place of] christi [Christ]

"Antichrist (Greek Antichristos). ... The word Antichrist occurs only in the Johannine Epistles; but there are so-called real parallelisms to these occurrences in the Apocalypse, in the Pauline Epistles, and less explicit ones in the Gospels and the Book of Daniel. ..."[Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "A"; Antichrist] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01559a.htm

"... anti ... (in the place of...) ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "S"; Sacrifice] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13309a.htm

"Vicar of Christ

(Latin Vicarius Christi).

A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "V"; Vicar of Christ] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15403b.htm

To be "over" the "Church" [Body of Christ] in "supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction" is to be claiming the position of the Head.

"Vicar

(Latin vicarius, from vice, "instead of") ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "V"; Vicar] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15401a.htm

"...2. We, indeed, to all men are the Vicar of Christ, the Son of God ..." [Online Catholic Encyclopedia, In Plurimi; On the Abolition of Slavery; His Holiness Pope Leo XIII; May 5, 1888; To the Bishops of Brazil.] - http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_le13ip.htm and http://w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xi...ments/hf_l-xiii_enc_05051888_in-plurimis.html

"...Ut sicut Beatus Petrus in terris vicarius Filii Dei fuit constitutus, ita et Pontifices eius successores..." [...as the blessed Peter in the vicar of the Son on God on earth was appointed, so the Pontiffs his succesors, and..."] [Prompta Bibliotheca Vol. 6, “Papa”, Article 2; pg 41 → ] - http://books.google.com/books?id=uJ8...page&q&f=false

The appellation and title "Vicarivs Filii Dei" has been used in numerous places to designate the popes with, even over a period of several hundred years:

- http://biblelight.net/666.htm

- http://biblelight.net/envoy.htm
 
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I will show you whom you worship ...

The appellation and title "Vicarivs Filii Dei" has been used in numerous places to designate the popes with, even over a period of several hundred years:

- http://biblelight.net/666.htm

- http://biblelight.net/envoy.htm
Even moreso, though Rome does not outwardly allow so many women-priests, they do primarily have one [Apparitional] “Mary” [“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel [messenger] of light.” 2 Corinthians 11:14], whom calls herself “Mediatrix”.

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . ... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512” [The Catechism of the [Roman] Catholic Church; Online section 969] - http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

““... If We have spent so large a share of our activities, in promoting the Rosary devotion, We can easily see with what benevolence the Queen of Heaven has come to Our aid when We prayed to her; and We express the confident conviction that she will continue to stand at Our side to lighten the burdens and the afflictions which the days to come will bring. …

... She was, in very truth, the Mother of the Church, the Teacher and Queen of the Apostles

... 8. The power thus put into her hands is all but unlimited. How unerringly right, then, are Christian souls when they turn to Mary for help as though impelled by an instinct of nature, confidently sharing with her their future hopes and past achievements, their sorrows and joys, commending themselves like children to the care of a bountiful mother. How rightly, too, has every nation and every liturgy without exception acclaimed her great renown, which has grown greater with the voice of each succeeding century. Among her many other titles we find her hailed as "our Lady, our Mediatrix,"[3] "the Reparatrix of the whole world,"[4] "the Dispenser of all heavenly gifts."[5]

[Thus 'she' also claims the prerogatives and the place of the Holy Spirit, who is the dispenser of gifts.]

... 9. ... "O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee; none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee."[7] …

… 10. It is no exaggeration to say that it is due chiefly to her leadership and help that the wisdom and teachings of the Gospel spread so rapidly to all the nations of the world in spite of the most obstinate difficulties and most cruel persecutions, and brought everywhere in their train a new reign of justice and peace. This it was that stirred the soul of St. Cyril of Alexandria to the following prayerful address to the Blessed Virgin: "Through you the Apostles have preached salvation to the nations. . . through you the priceless Cross is everywhere honored and venerated; through you the demons have been put to rout and mankind has been summoned back to Heaven; through you every misguided creature held in the thrall of idols is led to recognize the truth; through you have the faithful been brought to the laver of holy Baptism and churches been founded among every people."[8] …

… 13. No one will fail to remark how much the merits of the venerable Fathers and Doctors of the Church, who spent their lives in the defense and explanation of the Catholic Faith, redound to the Virgin Mother of God. For from her, the Seat of Divine Wisdom, as they themselves gratefully tell us, a strong current of the most sublime wisdom has coursed through their writings. And they were quick to acknowledge that not by themselves but by her have iniquitous errors been overcome. Finally, princes as well as Pontiffs, the guardians and defenders of the faith-the former by waging holy wars, the latter by the solemn decrees which they have issued- have not hesitated to call upon the name of the Mother of our God, and have found her answer powerful and propitious.

14. Hence it is that the Church and the Fathers have given expression to their joy in Mary in words whose beauty equals their truth: "Hail, voice of the Apostles forever eloquent, solid foundation of the faith,unshakable prop of the Church."[10] "Hail, thou through whom we have been enrolled as citizens of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church."[11]"Hail, thou fountain springing forth by God's design, whose rivers flowing over in pure and unsullied waves of orthodoxy put to flight the hosts of error."[12] "Rejoice, because thou alone hast destroyed all the heresies in the world."[13] …

… 15. The unexampled part which the Virgin most admirably played and still plays in the progress, the battles, and the triumphs of the Catholic Faith, makes it evident what God has planned for her to do. It should fill the hearts of all good people with a firm hope of obtaining those things which are now the object of our common desire. Trust Mary, implore her aid.

16. That the one self same profession of faith may unite the minds of Christian nations in peace and harmony, that the one and only bond of perfect charity may gather their hearts within its embrace-such is our prayerful hope! And may Mary, by her powerful help, bring this ardently desired gift into our possession! And remembering that her only begotten Son prayed so earnestly to His heavenly Father for the closest union among the nations whom He has called by the one Baptism to the one inheritance of salvation bought for an infinite price, will she not, for that reason, see to it that all in His marvelous light will strive as with one mind for unity? And will it not be her wish to employ her goodness and providence to console the Spouse of Christ, the Church, through her long-sustained efforts in this enterprise, as well as to bring to full perfection the boon of unity among the members of the Christian family, which is the illustrious fruit of her motherhood? …

… 17. A token that the fulfillment of these hopes may soon be a reality is to be seen in the conviction and the confidence which warms the hearts of the devout. Mary will be the happy bond to draw together, with strong yet gentle constraint, all who love Christ, no matter where they may be, to form a nation of brothers yielding obedience to the Vicar of Christ on earth, the Roman Pontiff, their common Father. …

… 21. There is another special reason why Mary will be favorably disposed to grant our united prayers in behalf of the nations cut off from communion with the Church: namely, the prodigious things they have done for her honor in the past, especially in the East. To them is due much of the credit for propagating and increasing devotion to her. From them have come some of the best- remembered heralds and champions of her dignity, who have wielded a mighty influence by their authority or by their writings-eulogists famed for the ardor and the charm of their eloquence;"empresses well beloved of God,"[16] who imitated the Virgin most pure in the example of their lives, and paid honor to her with lavish generosity; temples and basilicas built to her glory with regal splendor. …

… 25. The very origin of the Rosary makes that plain. When such faith is exercised by vocally repeating the Our Father and Hail Mary of the Rosary prayers, or better still in the contemplation of the mysteries, it is evident how close we are brought to Mary. For every time we devoutly say the Rosary in supplication before her, we are once more brought face to face with the marvel of our salvation; we watch the mysteries of our Redemption as though they were unfolding before our eyes; and as one follows another, Mary stands revealed at once as God's Mother and our Mother. …

… 27. For that reason We say that the Rosary is by far the best prayer by which to plead before her the cause of our separated brethren. To grant a favorable hearing belongs properly to her office of spiritual Mother. …

… 30. On the strength of this it has been decided to begin work on a scale proportioned to the size of the undertaking, and We have granted permission for the laying of the first stone of the shrine at an early date with solemn ceremonies. The temple will stand as a monument of ever lasting thanksgiving erected in the name of the Christian people to their heavenly Helper and Mother. There she will be invoked unceasingly in the Greek and the Latin rites that, ever more propitious, she will continue to heap new favors upon the ancient blessings. ...”[ADIUTRICEM (Benefactress) (On The Rosary); ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON THE ROSARY; SEPTEMBER 5, 1895] - http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13adiut.htm or http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/l...nts/hf_l-xiii_enc_05091895_adiutricem_en.html

The Sacerdotal [Priestly] Virgin [Mary of Rome]:



virgo%20sac%20imago-thumb-400x642-6737.jpg


http://vultus.stblogs.org/virgo sac imago.jpg


Oratio%20Virg%20Sac%20Pii%20X-thumb-400x700-6735.jpg


http://vultus.stblogs.org/assets_c/2010/06/Oratio Virg Sac Pii X-thumb-400x700-6735.jpg

“Marked by the priestly piety of the school of Bérulle, Pope Saint Pius X was singularly favourable to the invocation of Our Blessed Lady under the title of Virgo Sacerdos. Already in 1875, Blessed Pius IX had manifested his approval of the same title in a letter addressed to Msgr Oswald Van den Berghe, author of Marie et le Sacerdoce. Saint Pius X was pleased when an Italian translation of this work appeared.

When the Daughters of the Heart of Jesus, founded by Blessed Marie de Jésus Deluil-Martiny, asked for permission to invoke the Mother of God, in their chapels, as Maria Virgo Sacerdos, Saint Pius X wishing to extend the devotion to all the faithful, charged Cardinals Vanutelli and Vivès with composing a prayer that would make this Marian title better known. The prayer appeared, indulgenced by Pope Saint Pius X, on 9 May 1906.

O Mary, Mother of Mercy,
Mother and Daughter of Him who is the Father of mercies
and the God of all consolation (1),
Dispensatrix of all the treasures of thy Son (2),
Minister of God (3),
Mother of Christ, our High Priest,
thou who art both Offerer and Altar together, (4),
Immaculate Temple of the Word of God (5),
Teacher of the Apostles and Disciples of Christ (6),
protect the Supreme Pontiff,
intercede for us and for our priests,
that Jesus Christ the Eternal High Priest
may purify our consciences,
and that we may worthily, and with loving devotion,
approach His sacred banquet.
O Immaculate Virgin,
who not only hast given us Christ the heavenly bread
for the forgiveness of sins (7),
but who art thyself a most acceptable sacrifice offered unto God” (8),
and the glory of priests (9),
and who, as thy most blessed servant Saint Antoninius declares,
“without receiving the Sacrament of Order,
wert full of whatsoever in dignity and grace is given by it”,
thou art therefore rightly acclaimed as “Sacerdotal Virgin” (10).
Look upon us and upon the priests of thy Son,
save us, purify us, and sanctify us,
that we may receive the ineffable treasures of the Sacraments
in a holy manner
and so deserve to obtain
the eternal salvation of our souls. Amen.
Mother of Mercy, pray for us.
Mother of Jesus Christ, the Eternal Priest, pray for us.
Queen of the Clergy, pray for us.
Mary, Sacerdotal Virgin, pray for us.
[1] Richard of Saint Laurence
[2] Saint Bernardine
[3] Saint Bernard of Busto
[4] Saint Epiphanius
[5] Abbot Ludovicus Blosius
[6] Saint Thomas of Villanova.
[7] Saint Epiphanius
[8] Saint Andrew of Crete
[9] Saint Ephrem
[10] Letter of Blessed Pope Pius IX, 25 August 1873We grant 300 day of indulgence to one who recites this prayer with piety and devotion.
9 May 1906.
Pius P. P. X.” - http://vultus.stblogs.org/index.php/2010/06/prayer-to-mary-the-sacerdotal/


““Mary performs her sacrificial functions in two ways: in one way, which is more indirect and less specific, by her providing the sacred victim . . . . and in a more direct, immediate and noble way by concurring with Jesus in this precious sacrifice. While offering the same victim of propriation that belongs to her on the title of her motherhoood . . . . she has become his priestess by offering her divine Son to God for the salvation of the world and thus meriting grace and glory for us by means of this sacrifice, not with the perfect merit and justice which only belongs to Jesus Christ, but with an imperfect merit, a merit of goodwill.” Lazare Dassier (1692), 3e Sermon sur la Purification, l.c. p. 370.

  • Mary could not escape from Calvary because God had given her the mission to remain there aspriest, victim and mediatrix. She had to stay on Calvary, next to the cross and in the heart of her Son. She stood up straight on Calvary and undertook her function as priest. She stood next to the cross and fulfilled the role of a victim. She stayed in the heart of Jesus and acquitted herself of the task of mediatrix: strong in her first task, faithful to her second, devoted in her third . . .Mary had to fulfill her first task, that of being a priest.” St Antonio María Claret (1807 - 1870), Copiosa y vera collección de panegíricos, Rome 1860, vol. 3, pp. 390-391.”

  • “If the Saviour, as the Fathers of the Church assure us, is at each Mass the principal priest and the one who offers himself to the Father and who delivers himself up to people, the blessed Virgin shares in this function of the sovereign priesthood, accompanying the oblation and immolation which her Son makes of herself with her own agreement. For it is therefore that St Epiphanius among other praises, calls the Virgin a priest and an altar.” Jean de Machaut (1599 - 1676), Le Thrésor, vol III, pp. 152-153.”

  • “Since the will of the Virgin has cooperated with the will of the Son in the realisation of the Eucharist, we can with enough certainty declare and absolutely affirm that she has given us and has offered for us this heavenly bread. In fact, we recognise that the gift which is entrusted to us under these species - - that is : the body and blood of Christ the Lord -- is truly her gift and belongs to her. The divine Epiphanus touched on this reason is his sermon ‘De Laudibus Virginis’.
What could we say or imagine that is more splendid ? He says that the Virgin is a priest in some way in the gift and in the offering of the celestial bread; which is true precisely for this reason that together with her Son she gave and offered [this eucharistic bread], thus realising at the same time both the sacrament and the sacrifice.”

. . . . “It was right that she who was present at the first act of giving, and of whom it was said that she had given and offered together with the Father and the Son, should also be present at the consummation and fulfilment of this donation, to such an extent that we can say that she has in the same way given and offered it (the Eucharist) with her Son. ”

. . “The manner in which the incarnation was achieved in the breast of the Virgin pleased Christ so greatly ...that he invented a new way of repeating it and reiterating it...-... that is, the Eucharist. Ferdinand Chirino de Salazar (1575 - 1646), In Proverbiis, IX, no 148-149, vol. 1, 770D-771A.”

  • “Three elements belong to the priesthood and episcopacy: the call, the role of intercession, and sacrifice (Hebr 5, 1) . . . [With regard to intercession] as Son of God Christ has all power over God. Our Lady too, because she is the true Mother of God, has all power over God. And if the prayers and intercessions of Christ are heard on account of the fact that he is the Son, those of Our Lady will not be less heard, and are even heard with more surety because of the fact that she is his Mother. Therefore it is crystal clear that in Mary we find overwhelmingly the second quality required for the dignity of a bishop!” Antonio Vieira (1608 - 1697), Sermon on the Rosary, ib. p. 74.” -http://www.womenpriests.org/mrpriest/m_why.asp
“The gesture with which Christ confided his disciple to his Mother and his Mother to the disciple (16) has defined an extremely close relationship between Mary and the Church. It is the will of the Lord that a Marian note mark the physiognomy of the Church, her road, her pastoral activity; and into the spiritual life of each disciple a "Marian dimension" is infused (17).” …

… Every priest knows that Mary, because she is a mother, is the eminent formator of the priesthood, since she is the one who knows how to shape the priestly heart; the Virgin, therefore, knows and wants to protect priests from dangers, exhaustion, and discouragement: with motherly solicitude she watches over the priest so that he may grow in wisdom, age, and grace before God and before men (34). …

...Finally, Mary is the "offering Virgin." The Church has perceived in the heart of the Virgin who carried the Child to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord, a willing oblation that transcended the ordinary meaning of the rite (51). "You offer your Son, Holy Virgin, and you present to the Lord the blessed fruit of your womb. You offer the holy victim, pleasing to God, for the reconciliation of us all" (St Bernard). ...

...This union of the Mother with the Son in the work of redemption reaches its culmination at Calvary, where Christ "offered himself, immaculate, to God" (52) and where Mary was beside the cross (53) suffering deeply with her Only Son and associating herself with motherly courage to his sacrifice, adhering lovingly to the immolation of the Victim engendered by her and offering herself as well to the Eternal Father. To perpetuate throughout the centuries the Sacrifice of the Cross, the Savior instituted the Eucharistic Sacrifice, memorial of his death and resurrection, and he confided it to his Spouse, the Church... who accomplishes it in union with the Saints in Heaven and, in the first place, with the blessed Virgin, whose ardent charity and unshakable faith she imitates (54).

Therefore the Church, with this same oblationary fervor and spirit lived by Mary, continually exhorts the priest to prepare himself and celebrate the Eucharist, center and summit of his interior life and apostolate. May his priestly hands elevate the consecrated bread and wine, Body and Blood of the Lord, just as Mary offered him as a child in the Temple, and having consummated the redemption at the foot of the cross, may he return it to the Father as an expiatory offering for our sins. ...

...Priestly formation, finally, has an active dimension oriented to pastoral action. The figure of Mary, her operative presence in the life of the Church, is recognized as the soul of every apostolic or pastoral work. Her spirit of service inspires the priestly ministry as an expression of love and as a response to a received gift. The pastoral challenges of our times demand action inspired by Mary's life.” [Conference of Mons. Norberto Rivera, Archbishop, Primate of Mexico; THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY IN THE LIFE AND MINISTRY OF THE PRIEST] - http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_19071997_conri_en.html

Satan himself, not only in the 'mary', but in the position of Pontifex Maximus, the so-called vicarivs christi, the self-styled vicarivs filii dei on earth. Notice her place...

The High Priestess Mary, Wearing 12 Stone Breastplate, Rationale Of Judgment:

t63xfq.jpg


http://i61.tinypic.com/t63xfq.jpg

4102464783_9d1fc299a0_o.jpg


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4102464783_9d1fc299a0_o.jpg



MaryMonstrance2.jpg


http://bp0.blogger.com/_YxeBwzO25J8/SFFRlqSD-WI/AAAAAAAAAFk/CfpZ7YVxNFY/s400/MaryMonstrance2.jpg


Consider the Gallery of Traditional Artwork, depicting Mary as High Priest/Priest - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.136257553079494.13461.135188603186389&type=3

...and so it seeks to be in the headship position, even so much so, as to purposefully eclipse the very ministry/role/estate of Christ Jesus Himself. So, we see from scripture elsewhere that “...the LORD...” or “...God...” is to “...be magnified.” so that we “...give glory to him...” [Revelation 14:7;p], and yet, we find instead that this system “...magnified...” itself “...even to the prince of the host...” [Daniel 8:11;p] and “...repented not to give him glory...” [Revelation 16:9;p], taking upon itself Divine titles, also going so far as to “...calleth herself a prophetess...” [Revelation 2:20;p] and taking to herself functions/roles/estates, duties, doctrines and prerogatives which were never its to have and/or wield or authorized to teach, such as claiming to have the 'plenary' power from on High to even 'forgive sins' and to even be able to “...change times and laws...” [Daniel 7:25;p] of the Most High God.

'She' [Roman Catholic Church and Papacy] claims to be the bride of Christ, and yet she has none of the qualities and character of His real Bride, the True Remnant Church, which ought to be loving, trusting, faithful, obedient and submissive to Her Husband.
 
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The appellation and title "Vicarivs Filii Dei" has been used in numerous places to designate the popes with, even over a period of several hundred years:

- http://biblelight.net/666.htm

- http://biblelight.net/envoy.htm
Yet this is not all, for Romanism seeks to counterfeit all of the worship of God and drag it down from heaven and the Great High Priest there, and cast it to the earth, where the Dragon is:

A "man" robed in white, dipped in blood, wearing the blood shoes, seated higher than any other (upon a raised Dais, 7 steps), on a Great White Throne, surrounded on either side by two golden Cherubim, and outside of those four Living creatures, and the 'body' before him, in Red/Purple, gold, costly array and so on...

15yvlz9.jpg


http://oi39.tinypic.com/15yvlz9.jpg

Where is the worship of the Dragon focused? On earth...:

Revelation 12:9 - "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth ..."

Where is 'Jesus' if He is the 'Host' in the priest hands? On earth...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_71ZPiLxOVfU/SkeboUApWTI/AAAAAAAADlI/IyTInKSYX9g/s1600/VesperPeterPaul8.jpg

And if anyone knows who Roman Catholicism's 'Mary' actually is (even that apparition, that messengerof light; 2 Corinthians 11:14), for 'she' is in the same place, notice:

http://www.sanctuaryofthedivinemercy.org/resources/headers/default-header.jpg

Actual Size:

http://bp0.blogger.com/_YxeBwzO25J8/SFFRlqSD-WI/AAAAAAAAAFk/CfpZ7YVxNFY/s400/MaryMonstrance2.jpg

More:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PdZZ5IfdnsU/SJu4Z8hhdhI/AAAAAAAAAco/GO01XtpZXYM/s400/sign-monstrance.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YxeBwzO25J8/SFFRQ1By4_I/AAAAAAAAAFc/7H6w1ymMO9E/s1600/MaryMonstrance1.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4102464783_9d1fc299a0_o.jpg

The 7 Golden Candlesticks?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_71ZPiLxOV...ABC8/S08o4YSsBq8/s1600/PeterundPaul2008+5.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_71ZPiLxOV...BE8/-pLk7SocGaY/s1600/PeterundPaul2008+20.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_71ZPiLxOV...BFU/HmXWO6OsU_E/s1600/PeterundPaul2008+23.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_71ZPiLxOV...BEs/ag5NXkoPJnw/s1600/PeterundPaul2008+18.jpg

Sub-priests, under a Highpriest (of which we now have a pope-emeritus, and current pope, as it was in the days of the Crucifying of Christ, a Caiaphas and Annas, that existed after the Tower fell and killed many in Siloam):

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_71ZPiLxOV...AADlg/zYDF-tfRF5c/s1600/VesperPeterPaul14.jpg

Service with Incense (in a golden Censor, like in Revelation) before the Altar, 7 Golden Candlesticks by a Highpriest:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oTH9ebyg9qU/R006-PXtofI/AAAAAAAAARs/ttHeYse7A98/s400/pap_20071125_alt.jpg

http://www.catholicvoiceoakland.org/2008/2008images/2008_0421_00413.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_i8lNvcwkR...AxU/daqseUjREz4/s1600/PopeBenedictIncense.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_t2Ry7I5DN...ytpzLU9gj7o/s1600/Pope+Benedict+-+incense.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qSdHJD_kZtg/TM63Tgb0FwI/AAAAAAAABq4/B23fjlmqXBI/S230/Incense.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UQa2sOGhnG4/TbD1fQ_6N8I/AAAAAAAABl4/am-OEWqKu84/s1600/incense.jpg

A 'sacrifice', 'bread' and the 'glory' (of the sun):

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qSdHJD_kZtg/TM63Tgb0FwI/AAAAAAAABq4/B23fjlmqXBI/S230/Incense.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2128/2438231424_273e033cb7_z.jpg

The Laver:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EASFr7pb27M/TXuArHeR2vI/AAAAAAAAAe8/PR4IrUhOfnw/s1600/c.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7QcTC7NrXo4/TdKPwokMwYI/AAAAAAAAAIw/sifZG3ZqT8E/s1600/DSC_0049.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6dKQTchkJ...7_M_rP3GaU/s1600/Mount+Carmel+Church+(15).JPG

Even the foot, 'dipped in blood':

Psalm 68:23 - "That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of [thine] enemies..."

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6Y43qiHf92E/URqUJ7kjioI/AAAAAAAAPwA/gkB5nWNDr_4/s1600/pontiff.jpg

Wearing the 12 Gemmed Breastplate of Judgment of the Highpriest:

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Paul_VI_pictures/ephod.jpg

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Paul_VI_pictures/P6ephod.jpg

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Paul_VI_pictures/ephodpaul6_dec2005.jpg

Who else is wearing it (that 'messenger of light' again; 2 Corinthians 11:14):

http://oi61.tinypic.com/t63xfq.jpg

http://vultus.stblogs.org/virgo sac imago.jpg

Who this really is a sculpture of?:

http://mimlay.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/our-lady-of-the-angels.jpg

http://cleansingfiredor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mary_sculpture.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3014/2713177618_17608131ca_z.jpg

Notice the two Compartment room, separated by wall or curtain/veil (a counterfeit Holy and Most Holy Place) with a throne on one side, for 'confession', where 'man' is sitting (seated, enthroned) 'in the place of' God:

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.Kpa2PrWjorTvAuzBJe0cZw&pid=15.1&P=0

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.J87iZ+llrwaEKJdFiI9Syg&pid=15.1&P=0

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gY_cFcgpR...ADxk/CbGcE_cKdjE/s1600/confessionandjesus.jpg

http://cathoolic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Papal-Confession.jpg

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.ZPRvGyrmThhZ2jrAbdREoA&pid=15.1&P=0

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.QYAXsULP6241XBq5mubVHQ&pid=15.1&P=0

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.KLUR0kBh8uoGuxwrdcNtRg&pid=15.1&P=0

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.Y3Bk0LgA4jBkXad3+Iy6+w&pid=15.1&P=0

Crowned with self-Glory [differing colours, mean differing things, green is the colour of the 'enlightened one']:

http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Peace/2013/Pope/pope_francis_halo_reuters.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/catholicism/1/0/F/6/-/-/Pope-Benedict-Halo.jpg

http://www.stanthonymessenger.org/getImage.aspx?ImageID=470

Claiming to be the Shepherd:

http://bustedhalo.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/5WaysFrancis-flash.jpg

Walking upon the Waters:

Revelation 17:15 - "... The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.rTIy+5oXD7NBAYymMiORGA&pid=15.1&P=0

There is more, a lot more of her blasphemy, and insinuation into the hearts of men, instead of, in the place of Christ.

She is a murderer, even unto this very day, even as satan is, and I can document it from their own highest sources.

She claims to be able to change Gods divine Law, the Ten Commandments:

Daniel 7:25 KJV - And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

“But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, ...” [“The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII”, Encyclical Letter June 20, 1894; http://www.space.net.au/~nethow/Sede/encyclicals/Leo13/L13PRAEC.HTM; http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13praec.htm;
http://www.users.qwest.net/~slrorer/ReunionOfChristendom.htm]

"... 30. Papa tantae est auctoritatis et potestatis, ut possit quoque leges divinas modificare, declarare, vel interpretari … Hinc dicimus, quod Papa potest contra legem divinam aliquando venire limitando, declarando, etc., … Papa ius divinum potest modificare, cum eius potestas non sit ex homine, sex ex Deo, et in terris Dei vices fungitur cum amplissima potestate oves suas ligandi et solvendi … Papa potest interpretari, et ex causa limitare ius divinum, ut tradunt communiter omnes …” [pg. 45]

"... 30. The Pope is of so great authority and power, that he may even modify, declare or interpret divine laws... Hence it is said, that the pope can declare against [in opposition to] the divine law, by limiting at any time, or declaring, etc., ... the pope can modify divine law, since his own power is not of man, but of [from] God, and acts as the vicegerent of God upon earth with most ample power over his sheep by binding and loosing... the pope by intent [reason] can interpret and limit divine law, as they all commonly say..." [pg.45]
[Lucius Ferraris, in “Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica”; Prompta Bibliotheca Vol. 6; "P-R", “Papa”, Article 2; pg 41 → ] - http://books.google.com/books?id=uJ...&dq="Prompta+Bibliotheca"#v=onepage&q&f=false

The [church that is] at Babylon, elected together with [you], saluteth you; and [so doth] Marcus my son. - 1 Peter 5:13

"...As to the Babylon from which Peter writes, and in which Mark is present with him, there can be no reasonable doubt that it is Rome. ...

The view of St. Jerome: "St. Peter also mentions this Mark in his First Epistle, while referring figuratively to Rome under the title of Babylon" (Illustrious Men 8), is supported by all the early Father who refer to the subject."[Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "M"; "St. Mark; Ecclesiastical approbation. Nihil Obstat. October 1, 1910. Remy Lafort, Censor. Imprimatur. +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09672c.htm
 
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The appellation and title "Vicarivs Filii Dei" has been used in numerous places to designate the popes with, even over a period of several hundred years:

- http://biblelight.net/666.htm

- http://biblelight.net/envoy.htm
The Character:

[1.] Existed before in Heaven, before coming to earth
[2.] a “mystery” surrounds his Gospel
[3.] 30 Year period
[4.] Had a 3 ½ Year timeframe that is spoken of in the prophecy of Scripture, that came after the 30 year period
[5.] At the end of that 3 ½ Year timeframe*, He was taken captive
[6.] the Head of a Body was killed by the State, and by very zealous people who cared not what God wanted
[7.] after a period of time would pass, the Head of the Body was to live again
[8.] part of His many titles, would include partly “Christ ...”, “Rock ...”, “Foundation ...”, “Prince ...”, “Son ...”, “Father ...” [having “children ...”], “King”, “Lord ...” and “God ...”

other factors of the existence:

[1.] would go down to Egypt
[2.] would ride atop a beast
[3.] would enter Jerusalem/Glorious Land
[4.] He would have followers of many kinds of people
[5.] would have “sheep” or flock
[6.] would be above the “waters”
[7.] would speak “dark sayings”
[8.] would do many “miracles”
[9.] taken up a war/great controversy
[0.] would come with the “spirit”
[A.] a day would come when he would be “revealed”
[B.] A question surrounds him, “Who is like unto...” him?

Therefore, as asked, Who is being identified by those "Listed Points"?

This one is super easy, huh...

All too easy...





...yep...

...so...

...easy...

...yet...

I wasn't really talking about Jesus Christ, except as He was/is being counterfeited.

Let's look again, shall we?

The Character:

[1] Existed before in Heaven, before coming to earth – like as Jesus [Psalms 90:2, 93:2; Micah 5:2; John 8:58, etc], so too the counterfeit [Satan/Lucifer existed before in Heaven, before coming to earth [Isaiah 14:12; Revelation 12:7, etc]]

[2] a “mystery” surrounds his Gospel – like as Jesus [“mystery of Godliness” 1 Timothy 3:16; see also Romans 15:25; Ephesians 6:19; Revelation 10:7], so too the counterfeit [the “mystery of iniquity” [2 Thessalonians 2:7], false Gospels [Galatians 1:6-9]]

[3] 30 Year period – like as Jesus [Luke 3:23] so too the counterfeit, a system on Earth [AD 508 to AD 538, is 30 years, the difference in starting points of the 1,290/1,335 and 1,260 years prophecies]

[4] Had a 3 ½ Year timeframe that is spoken of in the prophecy of Scripture, that came after the 30 year period - like as Jesus [Daniel 9:27; Hebrews 2:3], so too the counterfeit [AD 538 – AD 1798, is 1,260 Years, or 3 ½ prophetic times - Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2-3, 12:6,14, 13:5; Luke 21:24.]

[5] At the end of that 3 ½ Year timeframe*, He was taken captive, even as the counterfeit in AD 1798, Pope taken captive (see the end of the 1,260 and 1,290 in Daniel).

[6] the Head of a Body was killed by the State, and by very zealous people who cared not what God wanted - so too the counterfeit, even as the Papacy receives a “deadly wound” [Revelation 13:3,12] but the Body lives], the people were the Atheistic led state of France, under Napoleon [Revelation 11:7-8 “beast from the bottomless pit”]]

[7] after a period of time would pass, the Head of the Body was to live again – like as Jesus [Mark 16:6; John 20:9; Acts 26:23, etc], so too the counterfeit [“deadly wound” would eventually become healed and life would be given [Daniel 11:40[b.]; Revelation 13:3,12, 17:11]]

[8] part of His many titles, would include partly – like as Jesus ["...the Prince of the Host..." [Daniel 8:11]; "...the Prince of Princes..." [Daniel 8:25]; "...Messiah the Prince..." [Daniel 9:25]; "...Michael, one of the Chief Princes..." [Daniel 10:13]; "...Michael your Prince..." [Daniel 10:21]; "...the prince of the covenant..." [Daniel 11:22]; "...Michael...the Great Prince..." [Daniel 12:1]; "...the Prince of Peace..." [Isaiah 9:6]; "...the Prince of Life..." [Acts 3:15]; "...a Prince and a Saviour..." [Acts 5:31]; "...Jesus Christ...Prince of the Kings of the Earth..." [Revelation 1:5;], so too the counterfeit “... Christ ...” [1 John 2:18,22, 4:3; 2 John 1:7], “Rock ...” [Deuteronomy 32:31,37]; “Foundation ...” [Job 22:16; Jeremiah 51:24-26]; “Prince ...” [Matthew 9:34, 12:24; Mark 3:22; John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11; Ephesians 2:2, 6:12; Colossians 1:16, 2:15], “Son ...” [“son of perdition” John 17:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:3], “Father ...” [John 8:44] [having “children ...” [“children of disobedience” Ephesians 2:2, 5:6; Colossians 3:6]; “child of the devil” Acts 13:10], “King ...” [Revelation 9:11], “Lord ...” [“Baal” Numbers 22:41, … Romans 11:4] and “God ...” [“god of this world” 2 Corinthians 4:4; “I am God” Ezekiel 28:9]

other factors of the existence:

[1] would go down to Egypt – like as Jesus [Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:15], so too the counterfeit [“Egypt represents worldliness/humanism”, Daniel 11:40-42]

[2] would sit/ride atop a beast – so too the counterfeit who would “sit upon a scarlet coloured beast” Revelation 17:3.

[3] would enter Jerusalem/Glorious Land, so too the counterfeit in Daniel 11:41,45, as it even now is conquering secular humanism/atheism (they declared war in AD 2013).

[4] He would have followers of many kinds of people - like as Jesus [John 12:9], so too the counterfeit, [Daniel 11:43; Revelation 13:3]

[5] would have “sheep” or flock – like as Jesus [Psalms 77:20, 80:1; Ezekiel 34:11,12,31; Luke 15:6; John 10:3,14,27, 21:16,17, etc], so too the counterfeit [John 10:26]

[6] would be above the “waters” - like as Jesus [Job 9:8; Psalms 29:3; Matthew 14:25-33; Mark 6:48-51; John 6:19-21 [see also Genesis 1:2]], so too the counterfeit, Revelation 17:1,15; Isaiah 14:14-15; Jeremiah 51:13]

[7] would speak “dark sayings” - like as Jesus [Psalms 49:4, 78:2; Proverbs 1:6; Ezekiel 17:2; Matthew 13:34; Mark 4:13,34, see also “mystery[ies]” Matthew 13:11; Mark 4:11; Luke 8:10; Romans 11:25, 16:25; 1 Corinthians 2:7, 4:1, 13:2, 14:2, 15:51; Ephesians 1:9, 3:3,4,9, 5:32, 6:19; Colossians 1:26,27, 2:2, 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7; 1 Timothy 3:9,16; Revelation 1:20, 10:7, 17:5,7. See also “riddle” in Numbers 12:8; Judges 14:12-19. See also “hard questions” in 1 Kings 10:1; 2 Chronicles 9:1. See also “...take up a parable … a taunting proverb...” Habakkuk 2:6;p. To speak in proverbs is to speak in symbols, John 16:29 “His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.”, thus, as it is written, Proverbs 25:2 “[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.”], so too the counterfeit “dark sentences” Daniel 8:23]

[8] would do many “miracles” - like as Jesus [John 7:31, etc, so too the counterfeit Acts 8:10; Revelation 13:14, 16:14, 19:20; see also 2 Timothy 3:8, see also Job, etc]

[9] taken up a war/great controversy – like as Jesus [Exodus 15:3; Isaiah 42:13; Luke 14:32; Revelation 17:14], so too the counterfeit, Revelation 13:4, 17:14, 19:19]

[0] would come with the “spirit” - like as Jesus [“spirit of Christ” Romans 8:9; 1 Peter 1:11, etc], so too the counterfeit [“spirit of antichrist” 1 John 4:3]

[A] a day would come when he would be “revealed” - like as Jesus [“revelation” 1 Peter 1:13; “coming” 2 Thessalonians 2:8], so too the counterfeit [“revealed” 2 Thessalonians 2:3,6,8]

[B.] A question surrounds him, “Who is like unto...” him? - like as Jesus [Daniel 12:1; Exodus 15:11; 1 Kings 8:23; Psalms 71:19; see also Deuteronomy 33:26; 2 Chronicles 6:14; Job 36:22; Psalms 35:10, 86:8, 89:8, 113:5; Jeremiah 10:6-7; Micah 7:18], so too the counterfeit "Who [is] like unto the beast?" [Revelation 13:4]



"The Man of Sin" and "the Man of God"

The "man of sin", even the "son of perdition" [as Judas was a type; John 17:12; an inside betrayer (Luke 22:48; John 6:71, 12:4, 13:2), even with a "kiss" (Matthew 26:48-49; Mark 14:44; Luke 22:47-48), in other words, it shall be that which outwardly claims to follow Jesus, or be like Jesus]:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away [αποστασιαG646 N-NSF (apostasia)] first, and that man of sin be revealed (αποκαλυφθηG601 V-APS-3S (apokalupsthe)), the son of perdition;

There were/are many antichrists (2 Corinthians 11:13,15; 1 John 2:18), as well as a head (ultimately satan himself, who will manifest and personate Jesus Christ; 2 Corinthians 11:14).

Even as, there is also the "man of God":

2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Is the "man of God" one man and/or many?

Just as Jesus is the Head, yet He also has a "body" (Romans 11:16, 12:4-5; 1 Corinthians 10:17, 12:12-14,18,20,26-27; Ephesians 5:30; Colossians 1:18; Hebrews 10:5, etc) the True Temple. So too also, in the counterfeit, Satan (Root) and his body (branches) (Malachi 4:1), the counterfeit Temple.

Look:

2 Thessalonians 2:4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The "temple of God"?

1 Corinthians 3:9 - "... ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building."

1 Corinthians 3:16 - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17 - If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

1 Corinthians 6:19 - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:6 - And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwellin them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ephesians 2:21 - In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

1 Peter 2:5 - "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house ..."

Revelation 3:12 - Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.

Jesus own "Body" is the Temple:

John 2:21 - But he spake of the temple of his body.

Yet there is more to it:

Revelation 11:19 - "And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament..."

See also the True Heavenly Temple - Exodus 25:40, 26:30, 27:8; Hebrews 8:5, 9:23; Revelation 11:19 and so on.

It would sit in (heis: towards or among) the Temple of God [1 Corinthians 3:16-17, 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16], ruling over the people of God [2 Thessalonians 2:4], yet claiming to be of God, yet it is a "son of perdition", just as Judas was [2 Thessalonians 2:3]

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:4

"Sitteth" in, towards/among the Temple of God [which is the people of God; 1 Corinthians 3:9,16,17, 6:9; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21; 1 Peter 2:5; Revelation 3:12; John 2:21]. We have already seen this, where this "personage" is seated, high upon a "White Throne", by which Two Golden Cherubims are to his Left and to his Right, just as the Shekinah Glory was seated above the Ark [symbolizing the Throne of God] and 2 Golden Cherubim, one to the Left and one to the Right: http://oi39.tinypic.com/15yvlz9.jpg

However, there is ever so much more to this "sitteth":

The "pope" "sitteth" over the "temple of God" in "ex cathedra" [Latin: "from the Chair" or "throne" (Thronos))]:

"Cathedra; (1) The chair or throne (thronos) of a bishop in his cathedral church, on which he presides at solemn functions. ... A good idea of the arrangement may be had from the catacomb frescoes representing Christ seated on a throne surrounded by the apostles ... By a definition "ex cathedra" is meant a formal infallible decision of the pope, obligatory on all the faithful. ..." [Online Catholic Encyclopedia; Cathedra] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03437a.htm

"The chief church of a diocese, in which the bishop has his throne (cathedra) and close to which is his residence; it is, properly speaking, the bishop's church, wherein he presides, teaches, and conducts worship for the whole Christian community. The word is derived from the Greek kathedra through the Latin cathedra, throne, elevated seat. In early ecclesiastical literature it always conveyed the idea of authority. ... the cathedra was the principal symbol of authority. ... The word cathedra, so expressive in the language of antiquity, has gradually been replaced in liturgical usage, by throne (thronus) or seat (sedes). ... Canonists compare to a spiritual marriage the union of a bishop with his church, and although this expression may be truer with respect to the church as understood in the moral sense than to the cathedral, it is nevertheless not inappropriate. They say that the bishop should love his cathedral, adorn and embellish it, and never neglect it. Metaphors apart, the bishop receives his cathedral as his "title" (titulus) or right; he is its governor (rector) and its head. He should take possession of it by a solemn entrance into his episcopal city and by the ceremony of enthronement (inthronisatio) as prescribed in the Roman Pontifical and the "Caeremoniale Episcoporum", (I, c. ii) in so far, at least, as custom will permit.” [Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Cathedral] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03438a.htm

"Literally “from the chair”, a theological term which signifies authoritative teaching and is more particularly applied to the definitions given by the Roman pontiff. Originally the name of the seat occupied by a professor or a bishop, cathedra was used later on to denote the magisterium, or teaching authority. The phrase ex cathedra occurs in the writings of the medieval theologians, and more frequently in the discussions which arose after the Reformation in regard to the papal prerogatives. But its present meaning was formally determined by the Vatican Council, Sess. IV, Const. de Ecclesiâ Christi, c. iv: “We teach and define that it is a dogma Divinely revealed that the Roman pontiff when he speaks ex cathedra, that is when in discharge of the office of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, by the Divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer willed that his Church should be endowed in defining doctrine regarding faith or morals, and that therefore such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves and not from the consent of the Church irreformable.”" [Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Ex Cathedra] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05677a.htm

Let us see that closer...

""from the chair" ... signifies ... authoritative teaching given by the Roman Pontiff ... when he speaks ex cathedra ... in discharge of the office of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme ... authority ... is possesed of that infallibility ... in defining doctrine ... in faith or morals ... are of themselves and not ... irreformable." [quoted/sourced above]

"Morals" deals with God's Divine Law, especially his Ten Commandments. For sin is the transgression of the Law [1 John 3:4], and speaking also of "Faith" in what we are to believe, for whatsoever is not of Faith is sin [Romans 14:23]. This 'papal position' claims power over Divine Law and Faith and to interpret, change, alter, modify, abrogate, even to dispense with all things, etc, even as we shall see, the very precepts of Christ Jesus Himself.

This 'power' claims to be of God and follow Christ Jesus [it claims to be Christian], yet we see it is a "son of perdition" and instead is setting itself over the whole Temple of God, ruling from a Throne and "sitteth" over them, even having its own "morals and faith". This 'power' also turns over to the state authority the True Christians to be tried and executed [just as Judas had done to Jesus by handing Him over to the Religious Leaders of the Jews [corrupt church] and Romans [civil authority], for both came to take him, both responisble for His death], for it 'persecutes and wears out the saints' and causes their deaths. We shall see, that it still has within it the terrible ability to do so, even today, it has not changed, for "she" will not "repent".
 
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BobRyan

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the apostles were ordained by Christ, given the power to bind and loose, etc., and passed on their authority to their successors,

The bible only speaks of one Apostolic successor -- it was not pretty.


I have no idea what you are talking about. The bible does certainly speak of the ordaining of presbyters and bishops.

There were a great many elders and presbyters - but only one apostolic successor in all of the NT - and he is found in Acts 1.


Scripture says it is the CHURCH which is the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Tim 3:15)

No mention of the RCC in that text.

1 Cor 3 - "11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

The only church mentioned in the NT came to be called Catholic, and relatively quickly.

1. Not Roman Catholic
2. And "Catholic" as in "universal" is exactly how the "Westminster Confession" uses the term and also claims it for itself.
3. It is hardly likely that anyone writing in the early 2nd century meant to identify a single denomination within Christendom as "Catholic" the way we have it today.
4. of the 15 forged letters supposedly from Ignatius of Antioch - which one uses the term "Catholic"?

http://www.bible.ca/history-ignatius-forgeries-250AD.htm


1 Cor 3 - "11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
 
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In Revelation 13, there is a counterfeit creation, made in the image, and life breathed into it, and thus with a counterfeit creation, there is a counterfeit memorial, a false sabbath - sunday worship.

Ezekiel 8:16 KJV - And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, [were] about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Their backs to the LAW of God, the Ten Commandments, that they may worship the creature/creation, over their Creator.

They deny the 7th Day in which Jesus was dead, for the sins of the world. Jesus was cold, that we might have warmth, Jesus was sealed in darkness, that we might have light, Jesus was dead, that we might have life, Jesus in the prison of the tomb, that we might be free, and yet they will trample the Holy hours of the Holy 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD, thy God, and in so doing they do not remove their sandals from off the Holy ground, and trample upon the Son of God Himself, in it. Not only was it Holy from Creation, but even moreso from the Son of God which rested, in death, for us, in it.
 
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Open Heart

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I will show you whom you worship:
I didn't even bother reading the rest of your post this opener had so much hubris. Who do you think you are? We were having a nice discussion about whether or not the Church had authority and whether the Bible supported this, and suddenly you jump to the topic of worship, and you are gonna show me????? SCUZE me, but I know whom I worship and it is God alone. Now please try to stay on subject, and please don't be so wordy!

BTW, I also noticed just from scanning the thread that you had a lot of ULTRA long posts. Most people won't read posts that long. It's just the nature of the medium. Try shortening up, and I'll bet you'll get more takers. Good luck to you.
 
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