Martial arts, wine, a poker game..

Frogster · May 5, 2015

Alithis said:
ouhh it sounds so "nicey pie" ..

but im convinced you did not yet take it to the lord in prayer .. you say ..we will go here or there and do this and that .. but no one here is saying .."if the lord wills " ..because so few display that they even care what God wills for them .they just leap in and defend their own will .

where is the first love in all that nice sounding easy to hear doctrine ? ? the love that put's god first , ..the love that lays down its own will for others ..

its not in the words .. "I will go and do my will as I see fit and don't you dare to tell me i cant do what I want when I want how I want .

That does not sound remotely like one who is filled with the Holy Spirit - it sounds like stubborn rebellion and stiff necked hard heartedness .
life in the Holy Spirit desires the things of the Spirit in God ,not the things of the world .

but you have missed a fundamental point when you leaped in . and that is that no one has said sports or whatever is wrong ..i have said that we should not give our praise and our adulation(admiration honor devotion ) to another and that Only the lord Jesus is worthy to receive it .
i have said we should not bow the knee to the philosophies of martial arts as bowing the knees or saluting is in all forms and all sects and all religions a universal act of acknowledging ones submission

and i have asked repeatedly for any one to show me from the scriptures where martial arts has a rightful place in a Holy Spirit filled life ... none can yet they still defend that which has nothing to do with living for the lord Jesus .. interesting isn't it

hear what Bob and Rom 14:5 are saying. thanks!

You presume that "as I see fit", means that I want the green above, even though i said I don't, so you are believing your presumption, over facts.

So if this were the Romans house churches, and one did what he wants in his own mind 14:5, you would be doing what Paul said not to do, as Bob pointed out. You are accusing me of an awful thing, and you are about the heart in your accusation.

It is fine to argue objective doctrine,text, church history, the Greek, what a verse means etc, but you are not doing that.

You are just presuming that if one wants to do a certain thing, he is not in the will of God putting "Him first", and you are looking way to deep into others heart, and you don't even know them.

Frogster · May 5, 2015

JellyBellyNellie said:
you demonstrate with your actiosns toward them that you believer they are not allowed to. also i don't think ive ever seen you quote paul correctly in the full context of what he was saying

Ya gotta show me where I did that, or it's hearsay..

pdudgeon · May 5, 2015

Frogster said:
My Jesus says it is ok for me to do as I see fit, you do not have to play poker, drink wine, or enjoy a good fight, fine, but to say it is wrong for all, is a broad generalization, way to based on a personal experience. Some Christian women think it is wrong to cut their hair. Fine, don't cut it, you can wrap it around your head several times and make a fashion statement, really, enjoy, but if another woman wants short hair, don't judge!

There are some Christians afraid of going to a football game, because they think it an "idol", fine, don't go, but let others who have freedom go punt away!

Enough is enough already. thanks! frog.

i think the point here is not how much freedom we have, but what we do with that freedom. rubbing another person's nose in our personal freedom isn't helpful to anyone, and it doesn't set a good example either. And just because one person has freedom to do something doesn't necessarily mean that everyone has to have that same freedom.

Messy · May 5, 2015

I don't see anything wrong in drinking a glass of wine if you don't have to drink a few bottles, I don't do it anymore for that reason, but even Jesus drank wine, or playing some game in a hall on a holiday. So what?
Martial arts, if you don't get aggressive and kick your wife blue in the face, what do I care if you do that.

Frogster · May 5, 2015

pdudgeon said:
i think the point here is not how much freedom we have, but what we do with that freedom. rubbing another person's nose in our personal freedom isn't helpful to anyone, and it doesn't set a good example either. And just because one person has freedom to do something doesn't necessarily mean that everyone has to have that same freedom.

well, nose rubbing goes both ways in the church. Often those who think others are wrong about who they think is sin, do in fact rub the hardest.

I did not insult in my OP.

My Op was defensive by nature, and about me personally. But thanks for your input.

Frogster · May 5, 2015

Messy said:
I don't see anything wrong in drinking a glass of wine if you don't have to drink a few bottles, I don't do it anymore for that reason, but even Jesus drank wine, or playing some game in a hall on a holiday. So what?
Martial arts, if you don't get aggressive and kick your wife blue in the face, what do I care if you do that.

I agree

, and Paul drank wine, and recommended it to Tim.

lismore · May 5, 2015

Frogster said:
I think it is silly

Well for those who think poker, martial arts and wine are 'silly' I guess that makes us all even?

^_^

Frogster · May 5, 2015

lismore said:
Well for those who think poker, martial arts and wine are 'silly' I guess that makes us all even?

Tell ya, fly over here to the US, and I will cook you a fine dinner, pour you some of my best Merlot, and take your money in poker!

Actually, I would love to have you here, you're a good bro!

Frogster · May 5, 2015

Messy said:
Suppose I made such a thread about not going to Disney world because Mickey Mouse is occult. Some people really believe that and others don't. That they don't doesn't mean they don't put the Lord first.
The Father of Corrie ten Boom smoked a pipe. He gave His life for the Jews in his house and lead people to the Lord and was very Godly. I'm not more serious than him just because I believe smoking is demonic.

Thank you, you're right on target!

This does nothing>>>>Col 2:23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

In fact, the wordage actually means it feeds the flesh, because religion, and those type of things feed pride, if one thinks he is spiritual by asceticism.

I think the one who knows Christ is in Him, and can enjoy things is spiritual, because people that start isolating everything in the material world as evil, are into gnosticism. Col 2.

Alithis · May 5, 2015

your only getting louder ..

your message is all to clear .

Svt4Him · May 5, 2015

You should be smoking a pipe while playing poker and drinking...at the same time as you're getting a tattoo! Wohoo, imagine the night!

Alithis · May 5, 2015

Messy said:
Suppose I made such a thread about not going to Disney world because Mickey Mouse is occult. Some people really believe that and others don't. That they don't doesn't mean they don't put the Lord first.
The Father of Corrie ten Boom smoked a pipe. He gave His life for the Jews in his house and lead people to the Lord and was very Godly. I'm not more serious than him just because I believe smoking is demonic.

well honestly , it would be splitting hairs and fully missing the point of laying downs ones own will to take up the cross ..

and splitting hairs ,as you've observed, is what folks do to avoid the light being shone onto the heart of their life .
.its all avoidance of the bones of the matter when people say ouhh but but but, then they use analogies and old sayings and what folks in the past did or didn't do and then they attack the messenger and call them judgmental etc... all very standard hohum reactions .

anything except take it to the lord Jesus in truthful honest prayer and say .. "is it I lord " ? shine your light on me lord ...search my heart lord ..
the lord Jesus said those who love the light come to the light that their deeds(what they do in life)may be exposed .... to see what sort of work is is ..of God or not of God ...
that's the point .. the point is always the surrendering of the heart to the truth and light of the lord Jesus ...
running around defending every fleshy action is simply avoiding the light ...
its not for us who love the Lord and trust him that IF he asks ask to give it up ..it is only because he has something far better and eternal for us .
its all about whom we love the most

the lord Jesus ..or our self .. that's the bone of the matter .

folks say " i have the liberty to do this and that .".but in truth ..in the name of the LORD JESUS ..can they say(some can).. i have inquired of the lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit told me its ok to continue in this way.. OR ..i have inquired of the lord JESUS and the holy Spirit said "no ..this is the way ..walk in it .. "

its about having TRUTH in the inmost part before God ..its not about defending our outer action ..for all outer action originates in the heart ..if the heart is right before god the actions will tow the line .

but a heart that refuses to even consider God in the decision ? is not a heart that is right or honest or truthful before the lord .

its about JESUS being LORD

Frogster · May 5, 2015

Alithis said:
your only getting louder ..

your message is all to clear .

Good!!

Frogster · May 5, 2015

Svt4Him said:
You should be smoking a pipe while playing poker and drinking...at the same time as you're getting a tattoo! Wohoo, imagine the night!

You forgot to mention a few sailors on board!

Bob Carabbio · May 5, 2015

Alithis said:
but im convinced you did not yet take it to the lord in prayer

"I'm Convinced that YOU DID NOT"

No sense even reading past THIS accusation. Shows the "Spirit" that's involved here.

Frogster · May 5, 2015

Bob Carabbio said:
"I'm Convinced that YOU DID NOT"

No sense even reading past THIS accusation. Shows the "Spirit" that's involved here.

well said.

Good post.

And I was told I am getting loud!..lol..loud is as loud does..

Alithis · May 6, 2015

Bob Carabbio said:
"I'm Convinced that YOU DID NOT"

No sense even reading past THIS accusation. Shows the "Spirit" that's involved here.

you consider that an accusation? lol.. its an invitation to convince me otherwise .. all the person has to do is state in the name of the lord Jesus that they did take it to the lord in prayer and share what he said ..and i shall take them at their word .. for no believer in Jesus would lie in his name.

if any say that to me ..i would respond in one of two ways .. i would say ..
"you are correct i did not and have not yet taken it to the lord in prayer ...but i will do so because i love the lord and desire to walk in obedience to him.
or
i will say yes i took it to the lord in prayer and he told me to cease from doing that thing.. which is the case and is why he led me to not bow at training any more ..which resulted in me leaving it ...
either way i find no cause to be defensive of self -for self does not matter..Only Gods will matters, for he is LIFE .. and find every cause in Christ Jesus to be honest and truthful about everything .

why be angry when we can simply be honest about it ?

so many folks defend the things they do.. but never testify of where or when they inquired of the lord .. they don't testify of how he led them in or out of certain things...
But then one can only testify of how the lord lead one .. when the lord did indeed do so .
..yu say i wil go here and buy and sell (i wil go here and do martial arts etc ) but you should say ..."if the Lord wills ".. and to find out what he wills ,we take it to him in reverent humility to ask him his will that we may Do HIS will not our own .

Alithis · May 6, 2015

again its all splitting hairs .. attacking the messenger when the message is uncomfortable .refusing to be easily entreated. splitting hairs ,as you've observed, is what folks do to avoid the light being shone onto the heart of their life .
.its all avoidance of the bones of the matter when people say ouhh but but but, then they use analogies and old sayings and what folks in the past did or didn't do and then they attack the messenger and call them judgmental etc... all very standard hohum reactions .

anything except take it to the lord Jesus in truthful honest prayer and say .. "is it I lord " ? shine your light on me lord ...search my heart lord ..
the lord Jesus said those who love the light come to the light that their deeds(what they do in life)may be exposed .... to see what sort of work is is ..of God or not of God ...
that's the point .. the point is always the surrendering of the heart to the truth and light of the lord Jesus ...
running around defending every fleshy action is simply avoiding the light ...
its not for us who love the Lord and trust him that IF he asks ask to give it up ..it is only because he has something far better and eternal for us .
its all about whom we love the most

the lord Jesus ..or our self .. that's the bone of the matter .

folks say " i have the liberty to do this and that .".but in truth ..in the name of the LORD JESUS ..can they say(some can).. i have inquired of the lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit told me its ok to continue in this way.. OR ..i have inquired of the lord JESUS and the holy Spirit said "no ..this is the way ..walk in it .. "

its about having TRUTH in the inmost part before God ..its not about defending our outer action ..for all outer action originates in the heart ..if the heart is right before god the actions will tow the line .

but a heart that refuses to even consider God in the decision ? is not a heart that is right or honest or truthful before the lord .

its about JESUS being LORD remember .. not my will ..but THINE be done

Truthfrees · May 6, 2015

Frogster said:
Here ya go, this verse might as well say "as you see fit!"

Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

I redid it the verse...looks fine, and does not change the intent or context of Rom 14 at all.

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should do as he sees fit.

Truthfrees said:
I agree everyone can and will do whatever they choose to do, but who are you living your life for? Yourself or God?

Does God want anything from you, for you, or through you?

What would you do with these verses?

"Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner." - John 5:19

"He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked." - 1 John 2:6

"For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what pleases the Lord." - Ephesians 5:8-10

"Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s." - 1 Corinthians 10:19-20

"Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." - 1 Corinthians 10:31

"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him." - Colossians 3:17

Just some food for thought.

We don't have to do what people tell us to do, but we do have to do what the Lord God Almighty tells us to do.

"Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men."" - Acts 5:29

"Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge." - Acts 4:19

Frogster said:
Hi, my point is, the new man is one with Christ. In Adam we were one with him, and naturally did the Adamic thing, without questioning, so now in the second Adam, we do the will of the second Adam naturally.

What is wrong with my posts?

My Rom 14 verse was perfect.

It wasn't my intention to give you the impression something is wrong with your posts.

I fully agree with you that pointing a finger at each other (judging) has no benefit to anyone.

I fully agree with you that God's grace is His power working in us helping us do what HE wants us to do.

God's grace is found from Genesis to Revelation. It's always been a part of His provision to believers, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, the Children of Israel, the Lord Jesus Christ, the followers of Jesus including today.

I'm adding a few scriptures into the mix of "do what you see fit".

A cake needs ALL the ingredients in the mix to turn out right. I'm taking this approach to this discussion.

When we get "polarized" on extreme opposite sides of a topic, we miss the goal of a scriptural discussion which is: "What can I learn to help me understand and participate in what God wants for, from, through me?"

You said the new man is one with Christ and naturally does the will of Jesus (2nd Adam).

1. Does that mean it's automatic and involves no thinking or choosing on our part?

2. Why does Paul give so many scriptures on what to do and what to stop doing?

3. What would you do with the scriptures I gave in a previous post about walking as Jesus walked and what ever you do should be to the glory of God?

Here's a link to 124 times Paul said "do not": https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=do+not&version=NKJV&searchtype=phrase&bookset=10

And 37 times Paul said "live" a certain way: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=live&version=NKJV&searchtype=phrase&bookset=10

Why does Paul spend so much time telling believers how to live if the new man automatically does the right thing?

I'm asking questions, not judging or debating. :wave:

Frogster · May 6, 2015

Truthfrees said:
It wasn't my intention to give you the impression something is wrong with your posts.

I fully agree with you that pointing a finger at each other (judging) has no benefit to anyone.

I fully agree with you that God's grace is His power working in us helping us do what HE wants us to do.

God's grace is found from Genesis to Revelation. It's always been a part of His provision to believers, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, the Children of Israel, the Lord Jesus Christ, the followers of Jesus including today.

I'm adding a few scriptures into the mix of "do what you see fit".

A cake needs ALL the ingredients in the mix to turn out right. I'm taking this approach to this discussion.

When we get "polarized" on extreme opposite sides of a topic, we miss the goal of a scriptural discussion which is: "What can I learn to help me understand and participate in what God wants for, from, through me?"

You said the new man is one with Christ and naturally does the will of Jesus (2nd Adam).

1. Does that mean it's automatic and involves no thinking or choosing on our part?

2. Why does Paul give so many scriptures on what to do and what to stop doing?

3. What would you do with the scriptures I gave in a previous post about walking as Jesus walked and what ever you do should be to the glory of God?

Here's a link to 124 times Paul said "do not": https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=do+not&version=NKJV&searchtype=phrase&bookset=10

And 37 times Paul said "live" a certain way: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=live&version=NKJV&searchtype=phrase&bookset=10

Why does Paul spend so much time telling believers how to live if the new man automatically does the right thing?

I'm asking questions, not judging or debating.

I understand you're point, yes, there are some directives in the text. But here I am talking about How God told me to do as I see fit, in my personal sphere, just like Rom 14:5, be convinced in your own mind, and that is what I am doing. What i see fit, is what God sees fir for me

, just like Rom 14:5, to me it might as well read as...

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced to do as he sees fit.

Martial arts, wine, a poker game..

Galatians is the best!

Galatians is the best!

Traditional Catholic

Well-Known Member

Galatians is the best!

Galatians is the best!

Maranatha

Galatians is the best!

Galatians is the best!

Disciple of Jesus .

Legend

Disciple of Jesus .

Galatians is the best!

Galatians is the best!

Old guy -

Galatians is the best!

Disciple of Jesus .

Disciple of Jesus .

Well-Known Member

Galatians is the best!

Similar threads