How do I develop thicker skin?

Jesse2014 said:

The post before this one is for you. I forget to check the quote sign.

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Ana the Ist said:

My mistake! I edited dog stupidity.

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Jesse2014 said:

I don't really get it. And if your calling me stupid, you are not wrong.

But I wrote that post before I edited it to say "to Ana." So yeah, I am not smart.

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Jesse2014 said:

I am a coward. I do not know how to defend my position very well; mainly because I am afraid. I easily back down. I am afraid of being insulted and sounding stupid. Yet, I see people on here who is not afraid of being insulted by participating in these heavy debates of whether God can be proven or not. And they will stand their ground no matter what. How do they do that? I, myself, will never deny my faith, which is low; but I will leave the debate before I get insulted.

Let me just say, I do not think debates are wrong at all. So my question isn't saying "I think you are wrong." But I do wonder, why do we debate constantly the existence of God? Why can't people just say "you have your beliefs and I have mine; let's just go our seperate ways?" Aren't you afraid of getting insulted by the person you are debating?

I don't know, maybe there is something stimulating about these arguments.

Again, I don't think they are wrong; I read them all the time and I do find some arguments interesting. I have learned from both sides of the arguments: Atheists and Christians.

And my next question is, how do I develop thicker skin? I am afraid to stand my ground. I don't want to be insulted or hated. But I don't want to be afraid to stand up for what I believe in as well.

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Ana the Ist said:

I wasn't speaking about you...I was referring to my stupidity. I post from my phone and have a tendency to hit the submit button without reading what I've written. I'm not sure why you think yourself stupid, because I don't really see it. I think maybe you've got some self esteem issues or perhaps just some insecurities, but that isn't anything unique. Everyone has insecurities.

One thing to remember when you're confronted with an insulting poster on a forum like this, is that in general they're just trying to make themselves feel smart. I find myself the recipient of insults most often after I've made a good point in the discussion that someone with an opposing view doesn't really know how to respond to. I would guess that sense of frustration makes them feel stupid, so they try to insult me and make me look stupid as a sort of defense mechanism. As a general rule, if you find yourself being insulted...you're probably making some very good points and controlling the direction of the argument.

What is it that you'd like to get out of this experience? Would you just like to be able to express your beliefs more clearly/accurately? Or is it something more...like being able to participate in discussions you find interesting but don't really have a lot of experience or knowledge about?

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bhsmte said:

It depends on the person and their psychological makeup.

Some people absolutely hate any type of conflict and having someone simply disagree with them can be seen as extreme conflict and it should be avoided.

Why do we debate these things? Many people find intellectual discussion of important topics stimulating and it is likely more stimulating, when you are engaging with people who have a different opinion then yours.

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Jesse2014 said:

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Well, I want to be able to express my beliefs more clearly as well as participate in discussions (idk if I spelled that right) that I have found interesting but don't have a lot of knowledge.

But I also want to learn to disagree without making enemies.
But I don't if that is possible. I am learning; well, sort of I guess.

Also, sometimes I do feel stupid. But at the same time, I know that there are subjects that I have some knowledge of, which I haven't shared yet. I should write what I know.

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Jesse2014 said:

I am a coward. I do not know how to defend my position very well; mainly because I am afraid. I easily back down. I am afraid of being insulted and sounding stupid. Yet, I see people on here who is not afraid of being insulted by participating in these heavy debates of whether God can be proven or not. And they will stand their ground no matter what. How do they do that? I, myself, will never deny my faith, which is low; but I will leave the debate before I get insulted.

Let me just say, I do not think debates are wrong at all. So my question isn't saying "I think you are wrong." But I do wonder, why do we debate constantly the existence of God? Why can't people just say "you have your beliefs and I have mine; let's just go our seperate ways?" Aren't you afraid of getting insulted by the person you are debating?

I don't know, maybe there is something stimulating about these arguments.

Again, I don't think they are wrong; I read them all the time and I do find some arguments interesting. I have learned from both sides of the arguments: Atheists and Christians.

And my next question is, how do I develop thicker skin? I am afraid to stand my ground. I don't want to be insulted or hated. But I don't want to be afraid to stand up for what I believe in as well.

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Don't feel bad, I'm not good at fighting or arguing either, I always back down or worse start to cry. I wish I could be a little tougher but I can't. So I just accept that this is who I am. I'm too soft hearted. I was never yelled at or hit or whipped as a kid and my parents never fought or argued loudly, they did it quietly without us kids hearing it, so I'm not used to confrontations and fighting. I get nervous and unsettled when people start yelling and or fighting. But as far as debates on the internet, they are something else all together, it's just a waste of time and energy to me. They are not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change theirs so why debate? I state what I believe and why, then I walk away. LOL. I am a bit braver with saying things through texting or online because it's not face to face though

Jesse2014 said:

I am a coward. I do not know how to defend my position very well; mainly because I am afraid. I easily back down. I am afraid of being insulted and sounding stupid. Yet, I see people on here who is not afraid of being insulted by participating in these heavy debates of whether God can be proven or not. And they will stand their ground no matter what. How do they do that? I, myself, will never deny my faith, which is low; but I will leave the debate before I get insulted.

Let me just say, I do not think debates are wrong at all. So my question isn't saying "I think you are wrong." But I do wonder, why do we debate constantly the existence of God? Why can't people just say "you have your beliefs and I have mine; let's just go our seperate ways?" Aren't you afraid of getting insulted by the person you are debating?

I don't know, maybe there is something stimulating about these arguments.

Again, I don't think they are wrong; I read them all the time and I do find some arguments interesting. I have learned from both sides of the arguments: Atheists and Christians.

And my next question is, how do I develop thicker skin? I am afraid to stand my ground. I don't want to be insulted or hated. But I don't want to be afraid to stand up for what I believe in as well.

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Ana the Ist said:

I think I can help you with this! You know, it may surprise you to learn that I've never studied any philosophy or theology...at least not in any formal manner. I've read a few religious texts, and as far as philosophy goes...the only one I've read that comes to mind is The Communist Manifesto. I decided I didn't believe in god around age 10-11 and by about age 13 I was going into AOL chat rooms to do the very same thing you're doing.

I wanted to learn about other people's beliefs, but more than that I wanted to be able to defend my beliefs when they were challenged. I wanted to be able to challenge other people's beliefs when I thought they were false...and like you, I didn't want to appear stupid while doing it. I would lie about being 13 years old and tell people I was in my late 20s just so they wouldn't dismiss my words out of hand. That's the beauty of truth though, it doesn't matter if it comes from Aristotle, Einstein, a 13yo on the internet, or Jesse2014...it's still truth and it still has the power of truth. So while you can study philosophy, theology, ethics or whatever you're interested in discussing...you don't need to. If you're willing to dive right into these discussions and arguments with an open mind, you'll eventually learn more than enough to defend your beliefs or challenge someone else's. That said, if you're still a little frightened of being insulted...there are some techniques that will help you avoid becoming the object of derision.

These are techniques that I feel will increase the respect that others have for you when posting online. When someone respects you, it's generally hard for them to insult you. Generally speaking, the basic rules of politeness and good manners which apply in real life work equally well here in online discussion forums. There are some rules though which I think should be stressed since the nature of online conversation is so different from real life.

1. Check your tone, son. Obviously, everyone who doesn't know this has blinders on. I mean seriously, who doesn't realize the importance of tone when constructing an argument?!?

Now, if that last paragraph sounded a little condescending...that's because I was trying to be lol. It's an example of what kind of tone your words should avoid. If people think you're talking down to them, they get defensive, and they're more likely to start hurling insults your way. The tone of your words is something that can easily be confused online, since speaking techniques like "inflection" don't apply here. Tone can be used to your advantage to help convey the proper mindset you have regarding a belief...but if you're unsure what tone to use, try not to use any at all. A neutral tone is almost always a safe choice.

2. Don't assume, ask for clarification.. If you want to reply to a post, but you're c little confused about what the poster meant, don't just jump to a conclusion. Ask them for clarification by telling them what you're unsure about. It shows them that not only are you paying attention to their words...you're concerned about understanding them as well. Most people are happy to oblige and you'll probably gain some respect in their eyes.

3. Read the info they linked to.. This sounds pretty basic, but you'd be surprised how many people don't read links. If someone is making the effort to provide an outside resource the least you can do is read it before replying to them. Again, it shows that you have an interest in their words and they'll want to reciprocate.

4. Admit when you're wrong.. No one likes being wrong, so no one really likes to admit it when they are. Most people will just ignore the point they were defending when it's proven wrong to them...don't be like those people. Admitting you're wrong when you're actually wrong is a powerful tool for gaining the respect of others.

There's other techniques that I'll gladly post when they pop into my head, but I think those I've provided are a good start. Let me know what you think.

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Ana the Ist said:

I think I can help you with this! You know, it may surprise you to learn that I've never studied any philosophy or theology...at least not in any formal manner. I've read a few religious texts, and as far as philosophy goes...the only one I've read that comes to mind is The Communist Manifesto. I decided I didn't believe in god around age 10-11 and by about age 13 I was going into AOL chat rooms to do the very same thing you're doing.

I wanted to learn about other people's beliefs, but more than that I wanted to be able to defend my beliefs when they were challenged. I wanted to be able to challenge other people's beliefs when I thought they were false...and like you, I didn't want to appear stupid while doing it. I would lie about being 13 years old and tell people I was in my late 20s just so they wouldn't dismiss my words out of hand. That's the beauty of truth though, it doesn't matter if it comes from Aristotle, Einstein, a 13yo on the internet, or Jesse2014...it's still truth and it still has the power of truth. So while you can study philosophy, theology, ethics or whatever you're interested in discussing...you don't need to. If you're willing to dive right into these discussions and arguments with an open mind, you'll eventually learn more than enough to defend your beliefs or challenge someone else's. That said, if you're still a little frightened of being insulted...there are some techniques that will help you avoid becoming the object of derision.

These are techniques that I feel will increase the respect that others have for you when posting online. When someone respects you, it's generally hard for them to insult you. Generally speaking, the basic rules of politeness and good manners which apply in real life work equally well here in online discussion forums. There are some rules though which I think should be stressed since the nature of online conversation is so different from real life.

1. Check your tone, son. Obviously, everyone who doesn't know this has blinders on. I mean seriously, who doesn't realize the importance of tone when constructing an argument?!?

Now, if that last paragraph sounded a little condescending...that's because I was trying to be lol. It's an example of what kind of tone your words should avoid. If people think you're talking down to them, they get defensive, and they're more likely to start hurling insults your way. The tone of your words is something that can easily be confused online, since speaking techniques like "inflection" don't apply here. Tone can be used to your advantage to help convey the proper mindset you have regarding a belief...but if you're unsure what tone to use, try not to use any at all. A neutral tone is almost always a safe choice.

2. Don't assume, ask for clarification.. If you want to reply to a post, but you're c little confused about what the poster meant, don't just jump to a conclusion. Ask them for clarification by telling them what you're unsure about. It shows them that not only are you paying attention to their words...you're concerned about understanding them as well. Most people are happy to oblige and you'll probably gain some respect in their eyes.

3. Read the info they linked to.. This sounds pretty basic, but you'd be surprised how many people don't read links. If someone is making the effort to provide an outside resource the least you can do is read it before replying to them. Again, it shows that you have an interest in their words and they'll want to reciprocate.

4. Admit when you're wrong.. No one likes being wrong, so no one really likes to admit it when they are. Most people will just ignore the point they were defending when it's proven wrong to them...don't be like those people. Admitting you're wrong when you're actually wrong is a powerful tool for gaining the respect of others.

There's other techniques that I'll gladly post when they pop into my head, but I think those I've provided are a good start. Let me know what you think.

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Grafted In said:

I have been a coward all my life and I understand completely why you started this thread. In my case I believe it stems from early childhood abuse by my father and later as I started school by bullies. There seems to be a target on my back when it comes to those prone to bully. They just instinctively seek me out.
However, after salvation I spent massive amounts of time reading Scripture for several months and Jesus revealed things to me that I am not at all afraid to share. Things He showed me are things that I know that I know and not one single person can offend me about. This has given me much comfort and I've shared a few of these pieces of Truth here and I have no problem at all when someone challenges them. They were not given to me by man nor can they be taken away by man. One such Truth I share drew only staunch criticism from a single person so rather than argue I simply removed what had clearly offend. I decided to just let God deal with it. I am no less confident in what I wrote then than I was before.
On subjects that God has not given me understanding such as that I try to remain silent or to question the understanding of others in hopes God will reveal something to me.
However that fear of others....especially bullies, I still struggle with, and in a few short weeks I will turn 65. I have been given no understanding from God as yet so I have to believe until He does or if He ever does, that being a coward is needed by Him to complete a work in me.

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2ndCovanent said:

You keep sounding like me in all your threads so I guess I'll answer according to what helped me. In my life I've been insulted/ridiculed and made fun of quite a bit. I've always been the dumb kid in my group of friends. At the worst, everyone is exploiting my inability to figure out a sarcastic situation. But through all these things I ended up realizing that none of them matter in the grand scheme of my life. My life always went on. Now, I've become really good at it.

I know what you mean though when you say you don't want to speak your mind because someone might blow your ideas down. It was bad enough that I felt like I couldn't breath the moment I was about to bring up my ideas to anyone. But after I started posting mine on this website, I found out that there are people on the same page as me. You should do the same because worst case scenario your misunderstandings get fixed. It seems at though you do not have the intention of making someone your enemy because of a disagreement, so any enemy made because of said disagreement wont be because of you but because of them.

Also, lately I've been fixing a lot of dysfunction in my life as well. I don't know the details of your life but since you sound exactly like me, getting your thoughts on this website will help you a ton. I also have a notebook where I write my thoughts as I come up with them during free time. No more lost ideas. Even though they aren't great because I know I'm not smart, it's just awesome to have that base that isn't planted on someone else' idea that seems false to me.

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keith99 said:

All good advice. A few points I'd add for the OP.

1. Don't overstate your case. If I remember correctly we are on opposite sides of the God question. If you say certain events in your life convince you there is a God you will get a very different reaction from me than if you claim those events prove there is a God. If you go a step further and imply anyone not seeing it your way is an idiot and you catch me or any of several other posters here on a 'bad' day you will find your worst fears here realized. I for one have a contrarian bent. If you pick some current event and don't overstate your position and someone else picks the other side and does overstate theirs and there is a pretty good chance you get me on your side.

2. Don't try to win the any argument in the eyes of the person you are arguing against. That kind of victory will be rare, even after you are a skilled debater. Try to win the argument in the eyes of the onlookers. And there are lots of onlookers, just check the views vrs posts.

3. Try to see things from the other side. At the least that will help you see arguments coming.

4. You don't have to 'strike back' right away. Some of the best decisions I have made here were to not hit the Submit Reply button after I had written an angry post. Sometimes I left things be, other times I wrote a more cool headed and scathing reply later.

4b. If someone really is out of line calling them out on it might be OK, but is is so much more effective if a 3rd party does it. Give the erst of a chance to point out a jerk who was offensive towards you.

4c. Once you have your arguing legs under you remember to occasionally rebuke those who are abusing others.

5. If an olive branch is offered take it and if you over reacted offer an olive branch. Those with confidence have no trouble with this, insecure people have lots of trouble doing it. If you act like you are secure you eventually become secure.

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keith99 said:

All good advice. A few points I'd add for the OP.

1. Don't overstate your case. If I remember correctly we are on opposite sides of the God question. If you say certain events in your life convince you there is a God you will get a very different reaction from me than if you claim those events prove there is a God. If you go a step further and imply anyone not seeing it your way is an idiot and you catch me or any of several other posters here on a 'bad' day you will find your worst fears here realized. I for one have a contrarian bent. If you pick some current event and don't overstate your position and someone else picks the other side and does overstate theirs and there is a pretty good chance you get me on your side.

2. Don't try to win the any argument in the eyes of the person you are arguing against. That kind of victory will be rare, even after you are a skilled debater. Try to win the argument in the eyes of the onlookers. And there are lots of onlookers, just check the views vrs posts.

3. Try to see things from the other side. At the least that will help you see arguments coming.

4. You don't have to 'strike back' right away. Some of the best decisions I have made here were to not hit the Submit Reply button after I had written an angry post. Sometimes I left things be, other times I wrote a more cool headed and scathing reply later.

4b. If someone really is out of line calling them out on it might be OK, but is is so much more effective if a 3rd party does it. Give the erst of a chance to point out a jerk who was offensive towards you.

4c. Once you have your arguing legs under you remember to occasionally rebuke those who are abusing others.

5. If an olive branch is offered take it and if you over reacted offer an olive branch. Those with confidence have no trouble with this, insecure people have lots of trouble doing it. If you act like you are secure you eventually become secure.

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Ana the Ist said:

All good points...

I would also add, "don't shy away from the mistakes your side makes." In other words, if a christian is spouting off some nonsense...you should point it out/correct it/or state your argument against it just like you would to an atheist. This isn't a football game where you win just by riding the bench of the winning team...

This is (or at least it should be) about finding/sharing the truth...no matter where it comes from.

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Jesse2014 said:

I am a coward. I do not know how to defend my position very well; mainly because I am afraid. I easily back down. I am afraid of being insulted and sounding stupid. Yet, I see people on here who is not afraid of being insulted by participating in these heavy debates of whether God can be proven or not. And they will stand their ground no matter what. How do they do that? I, myself, will never deny my faith, which is low; but I will leave the debate before I get insulted.

Let me just say, I do not think debates are wrong at all. So my question isn't saying "I think you are wrong." But I do wonder, why do we debate constantly the existence of God? Why can't people just say "you have your beliefs and I have mine; let's just go our seperate ways?" Aren't you afraid of getting insulted by the person you are debating?

I don't know, maybe there is something stimulating about these arguments.

Again, I don't think they are wrong; I read them all the time and I do find some arguments interesting. I have learned from both sides of the arguments: Atheists and Christians.

And my next question is, how do I develop thicker skin? I am afraid to stand my ground. I don't want to be insulted or hated. But I don't want to be afraid to stand up for what I believe in as well.

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True Scotsman said:

Another thing is that the purpose of a debate is not to win or beat the other person but to get to the truth.

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