Are the rapture and the second coming the same event?

BABerean2 said:

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Do the promoters honestly handle God's Word?

Do they add to, take away from, change, or ignore what is plainly written in scripture?
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Maybe Pretrib was hidden and American pastors were not able to find it.
Then John Darby came to America to help them find it.

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I supppose that last remark is not the snide remark of a "back yard tactic"?

You are one consistently double-standard individual.

But I'll address your hypocritical remark - yes, most were blind til Darby. But you should not be surprised - you are as blind.

There is no making peace with your kind - all you do is jab, jab, jab, only to call the other fellows kettle black the moment you are called on it. You have no shame - none.

Choose Wisely said:

I didn't know John Darby. I was able to find the pretrib rapture just by reading the Word of God.

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You are an amazing man.

You were able to do what thousands of American pastors were not able to do at the time of the Revolutionary War.

They had to wait until John Darby came to America to help them find it.

It is also amazing that you never heard a sermon on the pretrib rapture, that would have influenced your viewpoint.

Absolutely, amazing.

BABerean2 said:

You are an amazing man.

You were able to do what thousands of American pastors were not able to do at the time of the Revolutionary War.

They had to wait until John Darby came to America to help them find it.

It is also amazing that you never heard a sermon on the pretrib rapture, that would have influenced your viewpoint.

Absolutely, amazing.

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Thanks, it's nothing really. Anyone from an idiot and above should be able to do it.

N2THELIGHT

Where do you get multiple returns of Christ


And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.’ Hebrews 9:27–28


Where is the third?

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There is elders with crowns in Rev 4
There is a great multitude in Rev 7
There is a harvest at the back part of Rev 14

What do you do with all that information. People seem to look past Rev 14 like it is not even there.

Danoh said:

I supppose that last remark is not the snide remark of a "back yard tactic"?

You are one consistently double-standard individual.

But I'll address your hypocritical remark - yes, most were blind til Darby. But you should not be surprised - you are as blind.

There is no making peace with your kind - all you do is jab, jab, jab, only to call the other fellows kettle black the moment you are called on it. You have no shame - none.

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I wish my 'backyard' was a clean as BABarean2's...guard's the Word with his whole heart, eg, Jn.8:51 for openers.

Old Jack that appreciates you also my brother.

Choose Wisely said:

Thanks, it's nothing really. Anyone from an idiot and above should be able to do it.

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Thanks for proving my point again.

Nice work.

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Do those promoting the doctrine resort to school-yard tactics when discussing the issue with those of a different opinion?

Examples would be...

liar
fool
blind
etc.

+ idiot

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shturt678s said:

I wish my 'backyard' was a clean as BABarean2's...guard's the Word with his whole heart, eg, Jn.8:51 for openers.

Old Jack that appreciates you also my brother.

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You and I will just have to disagree.

While, in their defense, I seriously doubt pastors during the Revolutionary War had much time for indepth studies of any kind. The statement was obviously not thought out as to its context.

I have nothing against the guy, just a low tolerance for double standard.

Thanks for backing him, though, as I have to believe he means well somewhere in there.

Again, I simply do not agree with his double standard. He should share what he has to rather than resort to very standard he asserts others are guilty of.

Who are the saints in Revelation ? If your answer is those saved after the rapture prove that with scripture.

BABerean2 said:

Thanks for proving my point again.

Nice work.

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Do those promoting the doctrine resort to school-yard tactics when discussing the issue with those of a different opinion?

Examples would be...

liar
fool
blind
etc.

+ idiot

............................................................

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No problem. Glad I could help. Now when we get to where you understand that you are proving your point, we will be getting somewhere.

Post,
don't forget the 'game' of sequencing the Rev and the Rapt may not have answered the real questions about whether the Rev is for our future. What if it was mostly to help those believers in the 1st century cope with what happened there? Is this perhaps why the most obvious fact of Mt24 and Rev is never really talked about truthfully:

NEITHER OF THEM MENTION THE THING!!!

Choose Wisely said:

N2THELIGHT


There is elders with crowns in Rev 4
There is a great multitude in Rev 7
There is a harvest at the back part of Rev 14

What do you do with all that information. People seem to look past Rev 14 like it is not even there.

Click to expand...

If you assume the 24 elders to be raptured saints then what do you think the 4 beasts are? How do you explain Rev 5:8-9 where the 24 elders and 4 beasts are grouped together. If the 24 are raptured saints, why just 24, how do you prove with scripture who they are? When did they arrive?

/

vinsight4u said:

Study the elect angels and see if they are the 24 elders.

Hebrews 1 never says that no angels were given thrones, just
that they could not have one forever.

The elect angels and the four beasts will teach song/s to
saints.

Just as in Rev. 14 those in heaven/saints teach a song to
the 144,000 on the earth that get redeemed among men.

redeemed among men - as in where men are found

not among angels, elders, beasts or such

The song comes down to Mt.Zion from heaven.

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If I understand your post, you are saying the 24 are divine beings not raptured saints. If that is the case I agree.

Rev.4:4, "24 elders" = personification that signifies God's provential work and His agents pointing to the ministry of the precious Word.

Old Jack's opinion

Choose Wisely said:

N2THELIGHT


There is elders with crowns in Rev 4
There is a great multitude in Rev 7
There is a harvest at the back part of Rev 14

What do you do with all that information. People seem to look past Rev 14 like it is not even there.

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Rev 4 and 7 are simply those who have died and went on to be with the Father

Rev 14 is when Christ returns and they return with Him.........

n2thelight said:

Rev 14 is when Christ returns and they return with Him.........

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Where does it say those on mount Sion ever return to the earth?

You might allow for a return if you mean to the new earth.

Rev20 said:

Where does it say those on mount Sion ever return to the earth?

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Where is mount Sion?

n2thelight said:

Rev 4 and 7 are simply those who have died and went on to be with the Father

Rev 14 is when Christ returns and they return with Him.........

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How do you know from scripture the 24 elders are those who have died and gone on to be with the Father? If that is true, who are the four beasts, and where did they come from? The twenty four elders and the four beasts seem to be together a lot.

n2thelight said:

Where is mount Sion?

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Heaven.