Jeremiah 7 question

What is the part in bold saying?

Jeremiah 7
20 Therefore thus saith the Lord God: Behold, Mine anger and My fury shall be poured out upon this place — upon man and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn and shall not be quenched.

21 “‘Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices and eat flesh.

22 For I spoke not unto your fathers nor commanded them, in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, “Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be My people; and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.”

24 But they hearkened not nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward and not forward.

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This pertains to how sacrifices were offered up at the altar. They could eat the meat sacrifice, burnt offerings were not eaten, they were consumed in fire. Abraham offered Isaac as a living sacrifice, the people were not suppose offer up human burnt offerings to idols.

Jer 7
“‘The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the Lord. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it.31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

The writer of hebrews talks about a burnt offering;

Heb 13
10 We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.

It's an interesting thing that happens when we begin to compare the prophets to the Torah.

Are your ears opening up CherubRam?

"Thou shalt not ratsach-murder-kill", (strictly physical and all inclusive).

In the strictly physical world you cannot murder-kill what is not alive. Are animals living souls? Does the primary commandment from the Ten Words exclude any living souls just because man loves to eat flesh? Should we suppose that the Most High would give Noah and mankind power over all the animals, (by putting the fear of man in all of the animals) and then give man the right to kill and eat them? And if this is what the Most High did then how can this be called a "covenant with all flesh" as it is called? Does that sound like a fair "covenant" or contract? The Father puts the fear of man in all of the animals so that man can turn and hunt them down, kill them, (humanely and properly drained of course, ) and then eat their flesh? Something is amiss with the prevailing understanding. Likewise the Prophets are expounding this Torah as well as all Torah, (which is what they do). Jeremiah is direct confirmation of this as he says that the prevailing understanding is not what the Most High intended when he gave the commandments. The first chapter of Isaiah says pretty much the same thing. How is it they had "blood on their hands" while making many prayers? Does it refer to the physical killing of other human beings? Of course not, who would think such a terrible thing to be an ongoing epidemic amongst the leaders and people of Israel? Though there were some who did commit murders of other human beings they were dealt with according to the Law: this however pertains not to the physical killing of other human beings but rather the physical killing of animals, which are living souls, and eating their flesh for food. Isaiah says what it says because of the prevailing misunderstanding addressed above. These things are supernal and they are not done away; for when the prodigal son comes home, the fatted calf shall be slain, (and he will offer up a goat for his elder brother if he loves him).

This is the difference between flesh which may be eaten wherever one lives vs. the sacrifices/offerings to YHWH.

Deuteronomy 12:15 Notwithstanding you may kill and eat flesh within all your gates, after all the desire of your soul, according to the blessing of the L-RD your G-d which He has given you; the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the gazelle, and as of the hart.
16 Only you shall not eat the blood; you shall pour it out upon the earth as water.

The "unclean and clean may eat...", this exclusively pertains to flesh slaughtered and eaten by individuals at home and is in no way referring to sacrifices and offerings, which unclean individuals were prohibited. The blood is to be poured out upon the earth and covered over with earth.

Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be steadfast in not eating the blood; for the blood is the life; and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
24 You shall not eat it; you shall pour it out upon the earth as water.
25 You shall not eat it; that it may go well with you, and with your children after you, when you shall do that which is right in the eyes of the L-RD.

The following gives the distinction:

Deuteronomy 12:26 Only your holy things which you have, and your vows, you shall take, and go to the place which the L-RD appoint;
27 and you shall offer your burnt-offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the L-RD your G-d; and the blood of your sacrifices shall be poured out against the altar of the L-RD your G-d, and you shall eat the flesh.

Pesach:

Exodus 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; its head with its legs and with the inwards thereof.
10 And you shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; but that which remains of it until the morning you shall burn with fire.

Other examples:

JPS Version: Exodus 22:31 (22:30) And you shall be holy men unto Me; therefore you shall not eat any flesh that is torn of beasts in the field; you shall cast it to the dogs.

Exodus 29:32 And Aaron and his sons shall eat the flesh of the ram, and the bread that is in the basket, at the door of the tent of meeting.

Leviticus 7:19 And the flesh that touches any unclean thing shall not be eaten; it shall be burnt with fire. And as for the flesh, every one that is clean may eat thereof.

Leviticus 8:31 And Moses said unto Aaron and to his sons: 'Boil the flesh at the door of the tent of meeting; and there eat it and the bread that is in the basket of consecration, as I commanded, saying: Aaron and his sons shall eat it.

Leviticus 11:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: These are the living things which you may eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

Leviticus 11:9 These may you eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them may you eat.

Leviticus 11:47 to make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the living thing that may be eaten and the living thing that may not be eaten.

As for what is written in the prophets... we are given an instruction in the Torah for distinguishing truth and fiction when hearing the words of a prophet. Compare to the instruction given to Moshe and proceed.

sevengreenbeans said:

It's an interesting thing that happens when we begin to compare the prophets to the Torah.

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Indeed. The chief role of the prophets was not to foretell the future, but to explain the Torah.

In this case, I take Yirmeyahu to be emphasizing the fact that relationship prepares us for sacrifice, not the other way around. If one reads the Torah carefully, we find that the Mishkan was not opened for business for more than a year once the Exodus got under way.

It is a matter of priorities, not negation. Remember, the Hebrews spoke in absolutes, and in hyperbole. To say, "I didn't want it", often meant, "It was less important".

CherubRam said:

It sounds like a contradiction to Leviticus 1.


Leviticus 1

New International Version (NIV)


The Burnt Offering

1 The Lord called to Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting. He said, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When anyone among you brings an offering to the Lord, bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock.

3 “‘If the offering is a burnt offering from the herd, you are to offer a male without defect. You must present it at the entrance to the tent of meeting so that it will be acceptable to the Lord. 4 You are to lay your hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on your behalf to make atonement for you. 5 You are to slaughter the young bull before the Lord, and then Aaron’s sons the priests shall bring the blood and splash it against the sides of the altar at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 6 You are to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces. 7 The sons of Aaron the priest are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. 8 Then Aaron’s sons the priests shall arrange the pieces, including the head and the fat, on the wood that is burning on the altar. 9 You are to wash the internal organs and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord.

10 “‘If the offering is a burnt offering from the flock, from either the sheep or the goats, you are to offer a male without defect. 11 You are to slaughter it at the north side of the altar before the Lord, and Aaron’s sons the priests shall splash its blood against the sides of the altar. 12 You are to cut it into pieces, and the priest shall arrange them, including the head and the fat, on the wood that is burning on the altar. 13 You are to wash the internal organs and the legs with water, and the priest is to bring all of them and burn them on the altar. It is a burnt offering, a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord.

14 “‘If the offering to the Lord is a burnt offering of birds, you are to offer a dove or a young pigeon. 15 The priest shall bring it to the altar, wring off the head and burn it on the altar; its blood shall be drained out on the side of the altar. 16 He is to remove the crop and the feathers[a] and throw them down east of the altar where the ashes are. 17 He shall tear it open by the wings, not dividing it completely, and then the priest shall burn it on the wood that is burning on the altar. It is a burnt offering, a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord.

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Does Lev 1 speak about human burnt offerings; as the people were sacrificing to idols in Jeremiah 7?

CherubRam said:

?

Burnt offerings and sacrifices
Amos 5
21 “I hate, I despise your religious festivals;
your assemblies are a stench to me.
22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
I will have no regard for them.
23 Away with the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.
24 But let justice roll on like a river,
righteousness like a never-failing stream!
25 “Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the wilderness, people of Israel?

Psalm 40:6
Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but a body you have prepared for me — burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Jeremiah 7
21 This said Yahwah of Hosts, the God of Israel, add your sacrifices to your burnt-offerings, and you eat the flesh.

22 For I did not speak to your fathers, nor commanded them, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices, in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt.

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What about human burnt offerings or living sacrifice?

CherubRam said:

So then, for a brief time after the Exodus there was sacrifice and offerings? It is still confusing because the scripture says that God did not command animal sacrifice.

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Where is that written? If you wish to see contradictions you will see contradictions where there are no contradictions.

To the OP:

This is actually simple and in no way contradicts Torah.

Remember the scene at Sinai: the people get them selves prepared, Adonia comes down on the mountain top with fire and smoke and a shofar blast. then He speaks the 10 commandments in 70 languages. There is no mention of any sacrifices in the decalog.

After that event here is what the assembled multitude told Moses:

Exodus 20:19 Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.”

They were scared out of their sandals and did not like it at all. Moses later wrote down this version of events:

Deuteronomy 5:25 Now then why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any longer, then we will die.

Some how they missed Moses' explaination of what to do with the fear they felt:

Exodus 20:20 Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin.”

They rejected hearing God for themselves so He had to put in place a very onerous legal system that included detailed instruction on performing sacrifices.

Had sacrifices been a part of Israel's culture before Egypt? Of course. But there were no written instructions. They had to hear God for themselves as to when a sacrifice was needed and what kind and how to do it. By them rejecting God's voice that all was lost.

So "in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt" there was no instruction on sacrifices. That came about only AFTER they rejected hearing His voice.

DaveW-Ohev said:

Had sacrifices been a part of Israel's culture before Egypt? Of course. But there were no written instructions. They had to hear God for themselves as to when a sacrifice was needed and what kind and how to do it. By them rejecting God's voice that all was lost.

So "in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt" there was no instruction on sacrifices. That came about only AFTER they rejected hearing His voice.

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So the Pesach is not a sacrifice to you?

The Pesach lamb was NOT written down as a permanant sacrifice until AFTER Sinai. Before that, it was by way of personal instruction to Moses and Aaron.

It only says that on the day they left, it was the day after Pesach (the 15th) on THAT day He did not speak to them about sacrifices and burnt offerings only about obeying Him (which had its promise)...the speaking to them about sacrifices and burnt offerings came later at Horeb...(though the NIV and Modern distortions twist this to imply He did speak to them about these things, not just these things, which subtly makes the Tanakh a lie)...

How does this effect what we are to understand????

Paul

pshun2404 said:

It only says that on the day they left, it was the day after Pesach (the 15th) on THAT day He did not speak to them about sacrifices and burnt offerings only about obeying Him (which had its promise)...the speaking to them about sacrifices and burnt offerings came later at Horeb...(though the NIV and Modern distortions twist this to imply He did speak to them about these things, not just these things, which subtly makes the Tanakh a lie)...

How does this effect what we are to understand????

Paul

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Ex 12:21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD’S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.
28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

Annier - was that written before or after Sinai?

Or was it verbally transmitted at the time?