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yeah . even when doing it "the right way" some bear fruit way more fruit than others as the parable of 1, 5, 10 talents suggests .
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Does being a Teetotaler Make One a Better Christian?
- Thread starter Mama Kidogo
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yeah . even when doing it "the right way" some bear fruit way more fruit than others as the parable of 1, 5, 10 talents suggests .
What is the context of the verse, since it was already demonstrated that there are two [1] non-alcoholic, juice of the Grape, good/blessing/rejoicing/life; [2] alcoholic, evil/cursed/sin/death; uses of the word "wine" in Scripture - http://www.christianforums.com/t7832005-10/#post65985741
He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; Psalms 104:14
And wine [that] maketh glad the heart of man, [and] oil to make [his] face to shine, and bread [which] strengtheneth man's heart. Psalms 104:15
The context is quite clear, in that it speaks of God causing the "grass" to "grow" "for" "cattle", and "herb" "for" "the service of man", and so that mankind "may bring forth food" "out of the earth". Alcohol is not food, it is poison, an intoxicating substance.And wine [that] maketh glad the heart of man, [and] oil to make [his] face to shine, and bread [which] strengtheneth man's heart. Psalms 104:15
The second sentence linked with the first, is this "wine" which "maketh glad" "the heart of man", and further there is also the "oil" "to make [his] face to shine", and "bread" [grain/corn,etc] "[which] strengtheneth man's heart".
This "wine", "oil" and "bread [grain/corn]" is given numerous times in the Scriptures [link], being "the fruit of thy land" and is often related to the "tithe" [or firstfruits; Deuteronomy 18:4, or also the "all the increase of the field" 2 Chronicles 31:5, or "upon that which the ground bringeth forth" Haggai1:11, etc], and even relates to the blessings of the harvest and that which was pressed/garnered from them. There is no "alcohol" in those things for they were given so that "that ye may live, and not die" [2 Kings 18:32].
Secondly, notice that these things were to increase/strengthen/protect man's health, not deteriorate them, or cause them in any way to be poisoned/intoxicated.
[1] this "wine" was to "maketh glad" the "heart of man".
[2] this "oil" was to "make [his] face to shine".
[3] this "bread [grain/corn]" was to "strengtheneth man's heart".
All of those are not deleterious or intoxicating [poisonous] to man. For as much as the "wine" [fresh juice of the grape] invigorates and strengthens man and gives health and vigor, even as the oil [olive oils, etc] and wholegrains [bread,etc] also give such strength and living vitality.
3rdly, we can see the words uses in connection with this "wine" is "maketh glad", which is the Hebrew "samach" [Link] [which means to rejoice, filled with joy, with gladness, even related to salvation, never associated with corrupt alcohol, intoxication, leaven] and is not the Hebrew word "shakar" [Link] [which means to be intoxicated, and is associated with leaven].
in Psalms 19:8 it is connected with rightness, purity, rejoicing, enlightening and statutes/commandments - "The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes."
in Ezra 6:22 it is connected with the Feast of unleavened [which all places would have no leaven/ and nothing of fermentation, etc] - "And kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with joy: for the LORD had made them joyful, and turned the heart of the king of Assyria unto them, to strengthen their hands in the work of the house of God, the God of Israel."
in the parable given in Judges 9:13 it is connected with the pure juice of the fruit of the vine itself which cheers not only man, but also God Himself - "And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?"
in Exodus 4:14, the word is connect with the gladness of seeing one whom one has not seen in a long time, a reunion of rejoicing - "And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart."
in Ecclesiastes 10:19 it is connected with a feast of rejoicing and laughter - "A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry..."
in Zechariah 10:6,7 it is connected with strengthening, and victory - "[6] And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them. [7] And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD."
In more context of Psalms 104:11, we read, "They give drink to every beast of the field: the wild asses quench their thirst." This reveals that God gives drink to quench thirst. Alcohol does not quench thirst, but causes thirst.
In more context of Psalms 104:28, we read, "That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good." and thus we see those things are given that we may be "filled with good".
Therefore, beware and woe unto those which seek to turn the goodness of the Lord into the fermentation of Belial, place light for darkness and darkness for light, bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter, for it is written:
Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD. Psalms 104:35
Not Scripture.
Therefore, carries no authority, nor weight in regards to Scriptural matters. More could be gone into upon this point, but this is not the purpose of this thread, nor topic.
Additionally, the Scriptures cannot contradict themselves, nor be broken, and so every single Scripture is in harmony with it. Proverbs 20:1, therefore, cannot be contradicted by any other text. Again, alcoholic wine, its very nature is a mocker, raging and dealing in deception, and antithetical to wisdom.
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1
Please seriously read again the response already given and serious consideration to what was there given - http://www.christianforums.com/t7832005-10/#post65985741
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faroukfarouk
Fading curmudgeon
My wife and I prefer not to drink at all. But sanctification is never defined in purely negative terms: not doing this or that = supposedly godly.
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LOL
Next you're going to quote Pseudo-Matthew and declare that there are dragons, because they're mentioned there!
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Pseudo-Matthew is not in the Greek Septuagint, so no, I won't be quoting it.LOL
Next you're going to quote Pseudo-Matthew and declare that there are dragons, because they're mentioned there!
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B
bbbbbbb
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Agreed. When I am able to love my brother as myself I will start to work on the lesser commandments (not that I am ignoring them at all, mind you). Once I have mastered all of the explicit teachings of scripture I will focus on the implicit teachings. At that point in my life I expect to be well on my way in the eternal state.
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ChristsSoldier115
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. The closer I grow to God to more.. detached I become to worldly things alcohol is just one of the first things. I no longer view it as an necessity to be happy or something I need to relax or cope with the world anymore. I do not think using wine for communion is wrong and evil I still partake in the ceremony.
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CalmRon
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Well alright then, so in your personal walk with God, alcohol is viewed as an obstacle or a stumbling block. I respect that, I try not to allow alot people to know that I drink every so often. The cat's out of the bag here I'm afraid.
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Rebecca Sue
A child of the King
Well put, I feel the same way. It is alright for a person to drink occasionally if they don't struggle with over consumption. Unless you are encouraging a friend who is with you to drink also, and he or she has a problem with it. We are not to cause our brother to stumble. It's up to individual discernment. Legalism is not the answer in my book. It causes more problems than it remedies, imho.
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This is getting a little on the wild side
Someone must be passing around a Bong.............
...........
.....
you know .. i wonder if testing to see how fish drink alcohol is okay just to see how one can drink like a fish .
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faroukfarouk
Fading curmudgeon
Rebecca Sue: I can say Amen to this for so many situations and subjects!
For my wife and me, we do find it simpler just not to have alcohol.
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~Anastasia~
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faroukfarouk
Fading curmudgeon
Maybe you occasionally have a glass of wine, with no ill effect?
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~Anastasia~
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Me? If I wanted to. I have for anniversaries, etc. Sometimes a wine cooler just to have one (probably as much alcohol as a single beer). I'm not much of a drinker at ALL. I think I last had wine celebrating our anniversary last August. And before the glass of alcohol at the Greek funeral, I can't remember the last time I drank anything stronger. It's been many years.
No ill effect, no. Except that like caffeinated drinks, I need just a little more water to balance it out. Both are slightly diuretic for me.
I don't believe Scripture forbids it. I do think getting drunk would be a problem, especially habitually. Doing things while drunk could be a problem. Developing an addiction would be a problem. And I know some people have more of a tendency for these things than others do. Tempting someone else who has that tendency would be a problem.
If I drink two glasses of wine, I'd probably just fall asleep. And I don't like it well enough to desire it. So I don't worry for myself.
But no, I sincerely do not believe Scripture forbids it - not at all. I think, as in all things, we are to be wise. Spiritual principles and wisdom are much more helpful than legalism, IMO.
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GratiaCorpusChristi
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Sigh. But you still have yet to define "drug," and still have not actually argued that all use is abuse, nor have yet to admit that there is any sort of substantive difference between moderate caffeine use and habitual heroin abuse.
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