Who is the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians?

LittleLambofJesus

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Are you saying Jerusalem was taken like Jericho on rosh Hannah ?

That for 7 days the 7 trumpets of rev were blown on that day?
Tis all Jewish symbology to me. Why not ask them?

7 trumpets is only mentioned in Joshua and Revelation of the Christian Bible..

NKJV Search Results for "seven" AND "trumpets"
"seven" AND "trumpets"
occurs in 6 verses in the NKJV.



.
 
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dfw69

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Tis all Jewish symbology to me. Why not ask them?

7 trumpets is only mentioned in Joshua and Revelation of the Christian Bible..

NKJV Search Results for "seven" AND "trumpets"
"seven" AND "trumpets"
occurs in 6 verses in the NKJV.



.

I was just googling and found that the temple was destroyed in 69ce on the 9th of av... Which coincidently was the same day the first temple was burned down.. I don't know if the 9th of av falls on rosh Hannah .. If I remember correctly rosh Hannah falls on sept oct .. Av is in August ...I'm not sure


Rosh Hannah falls on 1 and 2 day of Tishri
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I was just googling and found that the temple was destroyed in 69ce on the 9th of av... Which coincidently was the same day the first temple was burned down.. I don't know if the 9th of av falls on rosh Hannah .. If I remember correctly rosh Hannah falls on sept oct .. Av is in August ...I'm not sure.......
According to the timeline of the Jewish wars by Josephus, the siege of Jerusalem started on the 14th day of the 4th month and terminated on the 8th day of the 9th month ad 70.
Not sure what day the Temple itself was fully destroyed.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.......................

The vial of divine wrath, which had been so long pouring out upon this devoted city was now emptying, and JERUSALEM, once "a praise in all the earth," and the subject of a thousand prophecies, deprived of' the staff of life, wrapt in flames, and bleeding on every side sunk into utter ruin and desolation.

This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 :
its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.



.
 
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shturt678s

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For some reason whenever the Jews are near me, they quickly put their Judenhuts on? Anyway I find it astounding that the number "7" is used 54 times in Revelation where its symbolical meaning should be understood. Seven indicaes the union of God with men - three, God's number (Holy Spirit) plus four, earth's number (men).

Old Jack that agapes those caps.
 
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dfw69

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According to the timeline of the Jewish wars by Josephus, the siege of Jerusalem started on the 14th day of the 4th month and terminated on the 8th day of the 9th month ad 70.
Not sure what day the Temple itself was fully destroyed.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.......................

The vial of divine wrath, which had been so long pouring out upon this devoted city was now emptying, and JERUSALEM, once "a praise in all the earth," and the subject of a thousand prophecies, deprived of' the staff of life, wrapt in flames, and bleeding on every side sunk into utter ruin and desolation.

This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 :
its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.



.

You know that could have been planned that way on purpose by the Roman rulers or whatever powers that be at the time ...a sort of self fulfilling of the prophecies to deceive for whatever purposes and blame it on the will of god cause it is written ....as if it was gods divine will which was to destroy Jerusalem


God knowing these things warns his people of the coming destruction

It was not god at all...or his will ...it was evil men with evil plans.. I always wondered why Jesus said father forgive them .. They know not what they do .. Only to turn around and destroy them .. It never made sense to me
 
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random person

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Are you saying Jerusalem was taken like Jericho on rosh Hannah ?

That for 7 days the 7 trumpets of rev were blown on that day?

Seven Seals (Rev. 5:1), Seven Trumpets (Rev. 8:2), Seven Thunders (Rev. 10:4), Seven Vials (Rev. 15:7) =

Leviticus 26:18,21,24,28, God's judgment on apostate Israel 70 AD.
 
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dfw69

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Seven Seals (Rev. 5:1), Seven Trumpets (Rev. 8:2), Seven Thunders (Rev. 10:4), Seven Vials (Rev. 15:7) =

Leviticus 26:18,21,24,28, God's judgment on apostate Israel 70 AD.

dont bye it :)
 
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Third Hero

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The restrainer is the personification of God's timing.

Acts 1:6-8
Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

God is the God of Order. He has everything planned out to be executed flawlessly. The reason why Jesus is not ruling the planet from Jerusalem right now is the very same reason why He did not claim His inheritance when He was resurrected. The times and dates that God the Father has put in place by His Authority is what is preventing the return of the Lord from happening.

Only God can stop an event from happening. Only God can restrain Himself. He has put in place events that were only hinted to in antiquity that have had their fulfillment happen in the last 100 years. He has what He had Daniel write in 9:26 as desolations and wars that are not defined, but are yet proclaimed to be future events.

If there is any other clear indicator as to whom the Restrainer is, look no further than the One who can stop God, Himself. His will to see all of the events that He has proclaimed happen according to His Timing is what can only be described as the Restrainer.
 
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dfw69

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Rev.14:8, Babylon the Great = the whole antichrstian empire The two beasts build the empire. Woman symboizes the antichristian seduction.

Old Jack buying into it.

Babylon the great is a mystery only god knows for sure

Babylon the city will be rebuilt by mystery Babylon seductions imo

It's not what the people in this forum thinks it is

One is a city one and the other is an old wicked religion ...it's a mystery :)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Babylon the great is a mystery only god knows for sure

Babylon the city will be rebuilt by mystery Babylon seductions imo

It's not what the people in this forum thinks it is

One is a city one and the other is an old wicked religion ...it's a mystery :)
It doesn't have to be a mystery, except perhaps for the Jews.

Revelation 11:8 shows both a mystical city, Sodom [symbolizing the city of apostate Jerusalem] and a mystical country, Egypt [symbolizing Israel], with the wicked old religion of OC Judaism dwelling there...IMHO.

Not much of a mystery for those who have eyes to see, ears to hear and the spirit of Jesus dwelling in them :)


http://www.christianforums.com/t7570002-8/
Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

In Rev 11:8 Jerusalem is called Sodom because it is where, when Jesus died and arose from the dead He completely wiped out sin as He did in Sodom when He completely destroyed it by fire and brimstone. Analysis of the ashen remains of Sodom, which was rediscovered by Wyatt Archeological Research, has shown that this comparison is accurate since they could not reignite the ashen remains that they recovered from the site of Gomorrah.
Jerusalem is mystically called Egypt because when Jesus died and arose from the dead in Jerusalem He released us from the captivity of death as He by His power alone released Israel, which symbolizes Christians, from captivity in Egypt.

Rev. 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
Bro. James D Albright
 
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dfw69

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It doesn't have to be a mystery, except perhaps for the Jews.

Revelation 11:8 shows both a mystical city, Sodom [symbolizing the city of apostate Jerusalem] and a mystical country, Egypt [symbolizing Israel], with the wicked old religion of OC Judaism dwelling there...IMHO.

Not much of a mystery for those who have eyes to see, ears to hear and the spirit of Jesus dwelling in them :)


http://www.christianforums.com/t7570002-8/
Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

But Jerusalem is not Babylon ... That's a city if you believe what the bibles literally says

But mystery Babylon is a last days religion riding the 10 gentile kingdoms to come... Or that this coming religion was made by mystery Babylon ...or both

Mystery Babylon IMO has been around some time to create the false doctrines of the world to decieve

Mystery Babylon will produce one final apostate religion that will both rule the 10 kingdoms and rebuild Babylon in shinar

Her complete destruction is foretold that mystery Babylon religious practices and Babylon the city come to an end

But Jerusalem will be in ruins one last time and rebuilt by Jesus

If I'm not mistaking ...2 more scatterings are to happen to judah
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Check out my new sig! This one might just be a permanent banner call against the false doctrine of the Rapture!
Perhaps that should have it's own thread :idea:
http://www.christianforums.com/t722010/
The Rapture Theory Debunked

Originally Posted by Freak4JC
Most rapture believers use I Thessalonians 4:16-17 to support their belief. It reads like this:

1Thes 4:16-17: (16) _ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (17) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord._ (NKJ)

Note first, that the description in verse 16 does not describe a secret or quiet taking away (rapture) of believers. It pictures an event involving a shout from an archangel and the sounding of a trumpet. You might say, it is loud enough to raise the dead, which is exactly what it will do. Something this loud is not a secret! In fact, all the people of the earth will be roused to observe Christ's second coming (Matthew 24:30).

If the event pictured in verse 17 of I Thessalonians, chapter 4, is understood, it not only debunks the rapture theory, it provides a powerful image of a glorious monarch being met by his loyal subjects who form an entourage to accompany him to his rightful throne. That is the essence behind the phrase in verse 17, "to meet the Lord. The same Greek word translated "to meet" in verse 17 is used in Matthew 25:6 to describe the meeting of the bridegroom in the parable of the Ten Virgins.

In this parable, the bridegroom is pictured approaching the location of the marriage ceremony. The parable is a metaphor describing certain aspects of the return of Christ. When the cry that the bridegroom is approaching goes out, the virgins, waiting to celebrate his arrival, are told to go out to meet him to accompany him back to the marriage ceremony.

There are a number of Bible commentaries that fully explain this. One that is especially helpful is Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words that gives insight to help us understand. Vines tells us that the word _meet_ (Grk: apantesis), as used when the virgins go out to MEET the bridegroom, signifies the type of official welcome given to a newly arrived dignitary. The virgins were the welcoming committee, so to speak.they were not going out to meet the bridegroom to accompany him to some unspecified place.

This is how the word _meet_ is used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 also. Christians will rise to meet the Lord in the air, and they will return with him to the Mount of Olives, as described in Zechariah 14:4-5:

Zechariah 14 4-5: (4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Instead of searching the scriptures for evidence of the rapture theory, it is enlightening to review what the Bible clearly teaches concerning the sequence of events of Christ's return. These events are described in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. Christ warned his disciples that after his death false teachers would come in his name, and the world would experience wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes. These he described as the beginning of sorrows (Matthew 24:8). Christ went on to explain how sorrows and persecutions would mount (in intensity) until the time of the Great Tribulation preceding his return to establish his kingdom (Matthew 24:9-20).

These accounts make it clear that true Christians will be on the earth during these difficult times. Christ warns Christians not to be deceived during this time. In verses 23 thru 26 of Matthew 24, he warns "you" not to be deceived. Who is the "you"? It certainly is not non- Christians. Why would they believe what he says? They don't believe in his existence! It is clear that during the Great Tribulation Christ has not yet returned. Christians are on the earth battling to remain faithful. Christ says he will shorten the tribulation for the elect's sake. Obviously, there would be no threat to the elect if they had been raptured off to heaven.

Immediately after the tribulation, comes the cataclysmic, dreadful day of the Lord described in Matthew 24:29-30. It is anything but secret!

Matthew:24:29-30: (29) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (30) "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (NKJ)

Reading on through verse 31 of the same chapter, we learn that Christ's angels will gather the elect from the four corners of heaven (that is, from everywhere on the earth), so that they may rise to meet him. The specifics of the resurrection of the saints can be found in I Thessalonians, chapters 4 and 5. In chapter 4:13, we are told that those who have died in Christ will be resurrected ahead of the living. Paul is explaining this so the brethren will not be ignorant, sorrowing over those who have died (Chapter 4:13, 18; and chapter 5:11). Verse 14 of chapter 4 tells us: "God will bring with him those who sleep in Jesus.

To summarize: Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and I Thessalonians, Chapters 4 and 5, provide the following:

1. Christ's second coming will be accompanied by universally observed signs, wonders, and sounds. It will be anything but secret or invisible. 2. Christ will be joined, as he returns, by the resurrected saints -- first those resurrected from death, and then those who are alive and are "changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet" (see also I Corinthians 15: 51-52). 3. The elect are told they are NOT to be ignorant of these matters. Christ revealed them beforehand so they would not be deceivedSby fictitious ideasSlike those found in novels or movies. So where is the scriptural basis for the "doctrine" of the rapture? If you were to research Bible commentaries, and other religious writings before 1800, you would not find any mention of it. It was invented by an Anglican preacher, John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). Darby is known as the father of the rapture doctrine.

The followers of the rapture theory try to shoehorn the rapture idea into the scriptures already mentioned in this article. But like a size 10 foot in a size 8 shoe, they don't fit. The rapture theorists also point to well-known scriptures in which Christians are told to be watchful and not slumber (Matthew 25:1-13). These verses are a warning for Christians to always be awake to the times they are in; to be personally prepared for Christ's return living a righteous life as the end of man's misrule approaches.

God Bless
Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page

Matthew 24 fulfilled in 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations

Reve 13:10
If any to-captivity, into captivity is going away. If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed. Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.[
[Luke 21:24]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

During the time that these things were transacted, eleven thousand Jews, guarded by one of the generals, named Fronto, were literally starved to death. This melancholy occurrence happened partly through the scarcity of provisions, and partly through their own obstinacy, and the negligence of the Romans. [/font]
Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places,...........

Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.
Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND. Of the Two great leaders of the Jews, who had both been made prisoners, John was doomed to a dungeon for life ; while Simon, together with John, in triumph at Rome was scourged, and put to death as a malefactor.[/quote]
 
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ebedmelech

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But Jerusalem is not Babylon ... That's a city if you believe what the bibles literally says

But mystery Babylon is a last days religion riding the 10 gentile kingdoms to come... Or that this coming religion was made by mystery Babylon ...or both

Mystery Babylon IMO has been around some time to create the false doctrines of the world to decieve

Mystery Babylon will produce one final apostate religion that will both rule the 10 kingdoms and rebuild Babylon in shinar

Her complete destruction is foretold that mystery Babylon religious practices and Babylon the city come to an end

But Jerusalem will be in ruins one last time and rebuilt by Jesus

If I'm not mistaking ...2 more scatterings are to happen to judah
So have you not read Jeremiah 3, Ezekiel 16, or Hosea?

You have to get the full picture. "Mystery Babylon Mother of Harlots"...it is all the unfaithfulness God has dealt with during His covenant with Israel/Jerusalem...her cup is full, culminated in the cruicifixion as well as the killing of the apostles and prophets.

Give Matthew 23 a read...the SEVEN woes Jesus pronounces!
 
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shturt678s

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Holy smokes! What Pope Francis says about 'smoking hot' Marijuana - sorry, off topic.

Rev.11:8 Here Jerusalem is to be taken literally as the headquarters of allll anti-Christianity. The actual city became such a symbol when it crucified Christ and never repented and was then razed to the ground. Whatever the city amounts to now, its past obduracy and judgment make it the symbol of the "great" center of the wild beast until the end of time.

Old Jack

wild beast (Rev.13) = / = Antichrist (IIThess.2:3, 4)
 
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dfw69

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So have you not read Jeremiah 3, Ezekiel 16, or Hosea?

You have to get the full picture. "Mystery Babylon Mother of Harlots"...it is all the unfaithfulness God has dealt with during His covenant with Israel/Jerusalem...her cup is full, culminated in the cruicifixion as well as the killing of the apostles and prophets.

Give Matthew 23 a read...the SEVEN woes Jesus pronounces!

How do you read jer 3 ezek 16 and Hosea ?

What do you see?
 
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random person

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So have you not read Jeremiah 3, Ezekiel 16, or Hosea?

You have to get the full picture. "Mystery Babylon Mother of Harlots"...it is all the unfaithfulness God has dealt with during His covenant with Israel/Jerusalem...her cup is full, culminated in the cruicifixion as well as the killing of the apostles and prophets.

Give Matthew 23 a read...the SEVEN woes Jesus pronounces!

Amen, only three nations or cities have ever had a covenant with God, only three cities or nations were ever called "harlot", "harlot", or accused of "whoredoms" in the prophet books from Isaiah to Malachi.

Nineveh's covenant with God - Jonah 3:5-10
Nineveh - "whoredoms" & "harlot" (Nahum 3:4, 1 VERSE!)

Tyre's covenant with God - 1 Kings 5:1-12; 9:13; Amos 1:9
Tyre - "harlot" (Isaiah 23:15-16, 2 VERSES!)

ISRAEL/JERUSALEM - "harlot"; "harlot"; "whoredoms" (57 VERSES!!!!)
Isaiah 1:21

Jeremiah 2:20; 3:1-3,6,8; 5:7

Ezekiel 6:9; 16:15-17,22,25-26,28,30-31,33-36,41; 20:30; 23:5,7-8,11,14,17-19,27,29-30,35,43-44; 43:7,9

Hosea 1:2; 2:2,4-5; 3:3; 4:10-15,18; 5:3-4; 6:10; 9:1

Might I make a suggestion to all board members, jot this down in your notes at the back of your bibles's for further reference. :thumbsup:

And yes, no other nation or city were labeled a harlot or harlot or charged with whoredom in all the books between Isaiah through to Malachi. You wont find even ONE!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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shturt678s

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Can you post a link to that on this pot thread? Thanks :)


http://www.christianforums.com/t7828460/#post65850101
Will the legalization of pot come back to haunt us


.

Was in the process of posting on this thread, and Fox news blurted it out this morning - only watch the headlines then off the T.V. (I preach watch the T.V. less than the nominal 2.5 hours daily for Christians thus cannot be that much of a hypocrit). Don't know the rest or even a link? Enjoyed your referenced link. Thank you again my brother.

Old tea tottler Jack
 
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