If LFW is true, how does sanctification work?

Originally Posted by janxharris
goes against one's sense of fairness.

Click to expand...

griff said:

Bingo. There's the problem folks.

Click to expand...

It's only a problem for the folks who don't ascribe fairness to God. Seems to them, God isn't fair, and doesn't have to be. Not part of His divine character.

Hammster said:

The only seeker the bible recognizes is God.

Click to expand...

Really? What about Acts 17?
26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us

crimsonleaf said:

Can you give me one example of anyone, anywhere, who made a choice against their desire or nature please?

Click to expand...

How about this?

Matt 26:39
And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”

Hammster said:

Well, with the way you handle verses like Titus 2:11 and Hebrews 2:9, it doesn't appear that you obey the king.

Click to expand...

Quite the opposite, actually. Why haven't you? I knew you would bring up Heb 2:9. The context flows TO v.9, not from it.

crimsonleaf said:

Everything you've just mentioned is either the result of nature or desire. If you go to work you go because you desire to, presumably because the option of having no money or status is unattractive to you.

Click to expand...

You didn't fully read what I said. Here it is again, some days I have NO DESIRE to go into work, yet I choose to go anyway.

crimsonleaf said:

Adam sinned because he desired to.

Click to expand...

And did that desire to sin come from his sinless nature? You wanted an example of anyone, anywhere, who made a choice against their nature, did you not? Adam made a choice against his sinless nature, did he not?

crimsonleaf said:

Anyone who is regenerate and sins does so because he desires to, unless you're denying free will and think man has no choice?

Click to expand...

So the regenerate can choose against their new nature? So, autonomous free will is alive and well.

crimsonleaf said:

As for your comment on the unregenerate, it is truly laughable. It is Calvinist doctrine that fallen man is usually not as bad as he could be. Besides, even if it was against fallen man's nature to stay sober and faithful (which it isn't) then he does so out of desire.

Click to expand...

Please explain how a good desire can proceed from a sinful nature.

crimsonleaf said:

You seem to not understand what we mean by total depravity, you don't seem to understand "desire" and I'm pretty sure you don't know what man's nature is. In all, a poor response.

Click to expand...

Well, I was taught 'total' means all, whole, everything; were you taught this? Or, is it easier to make it say what you want?

So tell me what 'desire' is. I am curious if you mean it the way the dictionary defines it.

From where does desire proceed?

Can a sinful man produce good desires?

If so, from where did those good desires proceed?

Hammster said:

He's fair. He's just no respecter of men.

Click to expand...

If you agree that God is fair, why do all of you Calvinists keep reacting to posts that bring up fairness then?

To make a clarification. You can have multiple desires which conflict.

I don't want to work today, and I want to make money.

The one you choose is the one you desired more, yet you also chose to go against one of them

FreeGrace2 said:

How about this?

Matt 26:39
And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”

Click to expand...

Or this...

Matthew 26:35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.

I don't believe it was Peter's desire to deny Jesus.

BetaChristian said:

To make a clarification. You can have multiple desires which conflict.

I don't want to work today, and I want to make money.

The one you choose is the one you desired more, yet you also chose to go against one of them

Click to expand...

I never said anything about money.

Hammster said:

So in your view, God isn't trying to save anyone.

That's different.

Click to expand...

And how did you come up with this assumption?

Hammster said:

Why do you go if you have no desire to?

Click to expand...

Because it is better to be faithful than letting my desires rule me.

Wise men do not let their desires come before others.

Hammster said:

What about it? Where does it say that anyone is seeking God? It doesn't. If it did, Paul would contradict himself in Romans 3.

Click to expand...

Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

God has no problem with man seeking Him, yet man does.

1 Chronicles 16:11
Seek the Lord and his strength, seek his face continually.

We are told to seek His face continually, yet man has a problem with this.

1 Chronicles 22:19
Now set your heart and your soul to seek the Lord your God;

If man has a problem with seeking God, it could be he hasn't set his heart and soul on seeking Him.

1 Chronicles 28:9
And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Here David advises Solomon to seek God. Did Solomon fail in this?

2 Chronicles 12:14
And he did evil, because he prepared not his heart to seek the Lord.

Men do evil when they do not seek God with their heart.

2 Chronicles 15:13
That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

There are dire consequences for not seeking God.

Psalm 10:4
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

It is the wicked who do not seek God.

Psalm 27:8
When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek.

God tells us to seek Him.

Psalm 105:4
Seek the Lord, and his strength: seek his face evermore.

David tells us to seek the Lord.

Proverbs 28:5
Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the Lord understand all things.

How will a man understand things if he doesn't seek the Lord?

Isaiah 11:10
And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

The Gentiles will seek the root of Jesse (care to guess who that is?).

Isaiah 55:6
Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

We are told to seek Him while He may be found. How will you find Him if you don't seek Him?

Jeremiah 29:13
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

You will only find Him when you seek for Him with all your heart. Again, how does a man find Him if he doesn't seek Him? It is only man who has a problem with the teaching of seeking the Lord.

I could give you more, but I think the point is clear.

So Hamm, why do you ask where it says anyone is seeking the Lord? It's all through the Bible. And as we have seen, it is the wicked who do not seek the Lord.