zeke37
IMO...
But in the statements By Irenaeus about persecutions during the three and a half year reign of Antichrist, he changed this terminology. We remember that in his statement about the church being suddenly caught up, he called the tribulation the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. He used the term the righteous again when he spoke of the faithful in that time in this statement:
For that image which was set up by Nebuchadnezzar had indeed a height of sixty cubits, while the breadth was six cubits; on account of which Ananias, Azarias, and Misaël, when they did not worship it, were cast into a furnace of fire, pointing out prophetically, by what happened to them, the wrath against the righteous which shall arise towards the [time of the] end. For that image, taken as a whole, was a prefiguring of this mans coming, decreeing that he should undoubtedly himself alone be worshipped by all men. (Against Heresies, Book V, chapter 29, paragraph 2.)
We remember that Irenaeus used this same term in speaking of the beginning of the kingdom, saying, bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom. He also used a second term for these faithful ones during that time, calling them saints in the following statements:
Daniel too, looking forward to the end of the last kingdom, i.e., the ten last kings, amongst whom the kingdom of those men shall be partitioned, and upon whom the son of perdition shall come, declares that ten horns shall spring from the beast, and that another little horn shall arise in the midst of them, and that three of the former shall be rooted up before his face. He says: And, behold, eyes were in this horn as the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things, and his look was more stout than his fellows. I was looking, and this horn made war against the saints, and prevailed against them, until the Ancient of days came and gave judgment to the saints of the most high God, and the time came, and the saints obtained the kingdom. Then, further on, in the interpretation of the vision, there was said to him: The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall excel all other kingdoms, and devour the whole earth, and tread it down, and cut it in pieces. And its ten horns are ten kings which shall arise; and after them shall arise another, who shall surpass in evil deeds all that were before him, and shall overthrow three kings; and he shall speak words against the most high God, and wear out the saints of the most high God, and shall purpose to change times and laws; and [everything] shall be given into his hand until a time of times and a half time, that is, for three years and six months, during which time, when he comes, he shall reign over the earth. (Against Heresies, Book V, chapter 25, paragraph 3.)
And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: And in the midst of the week, he says, the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.Now three years and six months constitute the half-week. (Against Heresies, Book V, chapter 25, paragraph 4.)
We need to notice that both of these statements are about the three and a half year reign of Antichrist, and thus speak of a time after Irenaeus placed the resurrection of the just.
where in the world did u get that from?
where do u think he says that the resurrection of the just
is before the AC's 3.5 years?
please bold and highlight it for us.
I must have missed it AGAIN
pure speculation, because u divide themWhy are the exact words Irenaeus used significant? Because a doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture requires words like the church or we in statements about the godly during events up to and through the time the Church shall be suddenly caught up. But when speaking of times after the rapture, the proper (and scriptural) terms for godly people are the righteous or saints.
saints and elect are Christian terms,
also used of specific OT chosen of God
but none the less, terms used all through the NT to describe us.
what a bunch of whooooeyAgain, the doctrine requires a different term for those who are resurrected at the time of the rapture, for that resurrection includes Old Testament believers who were thus not members of the church. And this is exactly what Irenaeus did, calling the resurrection by its scriptural name of the resurrection of the just.
(contonued)
he said the church goes through the trib
and it is the last contest for them, they have to overcome.
pre trib is outright creepy
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