Gee, I wonddddder who that "some" person is who used the term, 'bubble?'
I think you take what I say, Rus, and broaden it too far. It's not as if, in my making that "bubble" comment, I'm going to take my kids to strip clubs, let them watch the gay LOGO channel, and parade them through the dregs of humanity with a libertine lack of caution.
We were talking Cub Scouts, that's all. We weren't talking about all parental choices or exposures. Personally, I don't want my kids watching movies that show people in bed sexually. I don't want my kids hearing lots of foul language, don't want them seeing adultery, don't want them seeing homosexual characters, don't want them getting the idea that all religions are created equal, don't want them hearing the word 'abortion, and a host of other things. We were talking Cub Scouts, not the whole spectrum of parental decisions. So in my "bubble" comment, it was specific to the discussion at hand---the scouts. You mention in your post people "in their area" or neck of the woods, etc. not thinking it can happen to them. Basically, for the most part, that's right. I DON'T think most people in this area are going to teach kids about masturbation, gay lovin', and sex. you know about the Bible Belt in the Deep South? Well this area makes them seem tame. If any such thing went down around here, you'd be lynched!
And also when I say "bubble," I referred to the whole field. Should I pull my kids from sports and most if not all extracurricular activities because there is a 1 in 1,000,000 chance the dance instructor or karate teacher or coach might mention masturbation or gays or sex somewhere? There is ALWAYS a chance of contamination, Rus.
Once in a while, I feel a disconnect in your posts because I feel there IS NO right answer with you. I don't say that out of spite or anger, because I find your posts also very insightful and intelligent. You're one of the posters in CF I never ignore because, even though I find some of your points to be something I disagree with at times, you are passionate and bright, and you argue them well. But I do feel like you paint people into a corner giving them little choice but to have a bubble life. You slam public education. Fair enough. I work in it and I see it progressively getting WORSE by the month and the kids and parents' quality dropping like a meteor falling to the Earth. But when you've said stuff against private schools on many occasions, and my wife and I have had our kids in them, it hits close to home I think and seeing as how you don't have your kids in them and haven't handled them as we have, it's theoretical and a bit stuffy. For you it is pretty much home-school and little to no interaction with the world at all. And you live in Russia where the environment and social scene and moral playing field is different. So I think, after living where you have lived and gone through your unique life story that you have a disconnect with living here in the US of A.
I can say as a parent that sometimes I get SUPER burned-out with everyone playing the parenting game debate. My godfather feels that private schools are bad for kids and confuse them with Protestant theology and that somehow the parents won't be able to explain to kids how to learn and properly, at times, cast off those protestant errors. he believes PUBLIC school is the only proper place so the kids can witness their Orthodox faith to the other kids who are lost. My priest feels the same way. You think public and private are abhorrent because of my godfather's concerns on private, and you feel the public brainwashes the kids into secular humanists.
I think whether it be the Cub Scouts or Private Schools, Public Schools, home schools, we need to respect each other in this forum and realize that we Orthodox parents aren't dopes. My kids and I have had talks about the atonement and how the Lutherans are more Anselmian at best and satisfaction at worst. I've talked about Christus Victor, we've sat down in front of our Resurrection/Harrowing of Hades icon and discussed how the Orthodox, ancient, patristic view of the Atonement is one of conquering death by death. We also have sat down (multiple times) and discussed the Fall and how the Protestants are wrong in their understanding of how and why God dealt with Adam and Eve the way He did. We talked about how the Protestants see more of a "get out of my garden for breaking my rules!" approach versus the "I see you have eaten the tree of knowledge of good vs. evil, now for your own good I will expel you from this place so you don't immortalize your sin by eating of the second tree!" We've talked about the Reformation.
I keep an eye on things, so does my wife. And fortunately, VERY VERY rarely have we had to explain much. My wife volunteers at the school, knows the topics and how they're taught.
So, Rus, what I'm saying is, my kids are going to grow up with Protestants and Catholics. I think my kids are exposed to the pros and cons. I want my kids to love Christ and see what they DO have in common with Protestants, but I also want them to realize that true reunion with these folks can only happen on Orthodox terms. We've said as much.
I want my kids to see the godliness in Protestants, and not cast them aside as idiot Jimmy Swaggart types because of doctrinal disagreements. Yes, there is only ONE objective truth of Christ, but to know and love our Christian brothers who are separated brethren, I find nothing wrong in having fellowship among them and learning with them about the basics of Christ.
My kids memorize Bible scripture, have a workbook in their "religion" class that is very much the basics of Bible comprehension, not theological controversy. Most of what they learn is the stuff that Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, hell, even Mormons would agree with about the Bible.
I think in the end the reason that these discussions are painful for some, including me, is not only do they hit home, they're from your experience, and you're not here in my house with my wife, with my kids, with our school, etc. watching the incredible growth and awesome things my kids are doing. And you're not here seeing me address the rare occasions of disagreement (most of my talks with my kids have bee pre-emptory, not reactionary!).
You use Chesterton as a system and see everything through that prism. And I'm not saying Chesterton is unhealthy by ANY means. But in my world here, my wife is an RN and she's doing her Christian vocation to care for the sick. That's her job. And I'm fighting the good fight in the public system bringing Christ to kids through how I treat them and OVERTLY in our year-long history curriculum that lends itself well to that end. And with our jobs, we are not going to home-school. We had several options, we took the one we have now. We're happy with it.
So I think the top-down absolutes that you often portray can hurt a bit, because those absolutes are not always realistic. Though the Scouts may be gay and fruity in the Castro District of San Francisco or in a liberal state like Massachusetts or Minnesota, in my neck of the woods, though you scoff at the idea, I must tell you that it isn't going to be the same.
I don't totally have a pony in this race in that I haven't yet put my kids in the scouts. Wifey and I are still talking it over....but these things you say DO cross my mind and the gay thing entered my noodle long before you said anything in this thread.....
Not all parents are the same. Sometimes we clash philosophically. My godfather and I did, as I told you on the side recently. And it was over schooling. But we reconciled and realized that, despite different choices there, we TRUST each other as parents. I know my godfather, who is a deacon and good man, will filter and teach and guide his 3 girls and 1 boy the right way through the tough, choppy waters of public, and he knows my lovely wife and I will guide our 2 boys and 1 girl through the more placid and yet occasionally (emphasis on occasionally) choppy waters of our private school.
Same goes with the scouts. But with scouting, the minute that any sexual stuff came up, I'd yank my boys faster than a long cane at a vaudeville show stage!
I share your lack of trust in modernity. I think it's refreshing. Too many people are zombie-like. I think it's a strength you have. But I also don't want to be too extreme with my kids, insanely restrictive, excessive, or off-putting either. It's a very tough thing, being a parent. No manual!
So I guess in my long, wordy diatribe here I'm saying that we just have to start respecting each other on here as parents and that not only are our hearts in the right places as Orthodox parents, but that we are all keenly aware and watching the trends and pitfalls of this perilous culture we live in, and that perhaps we should seek more understanding and common ground here than passionately pontificating blasts and polarization or ignoring each other's unique circumstances. Your story, Rus, is a fascinating one! And so are many other's. We just need to respect each other more is what I'm saying, and look at motives and parenting with an open heart.
We all experience things. How we react to them can affect our later experiences of those same things. The first time a person smokes they may cough and feel disgusted. Yet many go back for a second try. And when they do, they find the second time doesn't seem so bad. I believe there is such a thing as an acquired taste.
But this seems entirely irrelevant to everything I have said. I have said there is a danger, not so much of "turning kids gay" as of simply stripping them of their innocence and inuring them to all of these topics, to see them as normal and acceptable, as no social threat. I think fornication a social threat and stand against it, as well as adultery, and similarly think our children ought to be protected from the social atmosphere that appoves of them. Some call this "bubbles", disapprovingly. I say that undersea divers wear bubbles to enable them to function and survive in an alien atmosphere, and that bubbles are, in their proper use, good things.
