Obama arms Syrian rebels

TerranceL said:

It's an appeal to emotion and a shaming tactic, it was met with the response it deserved.

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Identifying the intrinsic value of human life is not an appeal to emotion. You were just being rude.

mpok1519 said:

Identifying the intrinsic value of human life is not an appeal to emotion. You were just being rude.

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Of course it's an appeal to emotion. Do yo not know what the phrase means?

TerranceL said:

America: Arming tomorrows enemies today.

And people say we aren't a progressive nation.

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Sad to witness in action, especially as it concerns the Christians in Syria.

• Syria Militants Massacre Christian Village Population (Graphic Images),” from Syria Report,

As said there:

The events taking place in Syria have been things others warned of ages ago - and sadly, what is happening here is no different than what occurred with the believers in Iraq when they were damaged extensively by the U.S getting involved where it never had any business doing so - regardless of how much the U.S may claim that they got involved to "bring freedom"/democracy...

Specifically, when considering the plight of how the Christians of Iraq suffered immensely as a result of strength being used the WRONG WAY by the U.S in the name of "war against terror", so many have suffered as a result - having to flee when other groups came to power and being isolated. For all the Iraq Christians/the Assyrian Christians that were wiped out in the process (if aware of the Assyrian Church of the East - more here in #63 /#126 ), it's amazing how much in the way of Assyrian Christianity seems to be lost in our times - and sadly, not many in the West are aware of how much actions in the Western world have damaged the Assyrian one. , it'll never be an issue for them of America always being benevolent in intentions....

What happened in the Iraq War is sadly something which seems to be repeating itself in Syria - and all due to how the U.S seems clueless on all the sides which are making a difference.


As I have said before elsewhere, the Salafi Jihadists, who harmed Christians not getting involved in the revolts, are playing a HUGE role in Syria. Numerous videos show massive numbers of Salafi Jihadists executing war crime after war crime and taking to the streets ...and many radical Fundamentalist groups in Syria have been given free reign and have the potential to do A LOT OF damage if empowered

İpek Yezdani, writing in the Turkish Hürriyet Daily News concedes, that Syrian rebels are too fragmented and unruly to really do anything lasting in terms of true revolution. Her article is subtitled, "The opposition militants battling Syrian President Bashar al-Assad are a fragmented rabble that refuses to follow orders, according to activists." As she said:
She reports that an SNC member said mainly Chechens, Libyans and a few Afghans were fighting on the fronts in Syria. “Most of them fight in Syria to be martyrs,” ( here )..and to see the full range of groups involved:

• Syria « Voices from Russia
• Russia And Syria: More Than Meets The Eye​
• Global Politician - The U.S., Russia and Syria​
• The U.S. Should Steer Clear of Syria - Reason.com​
• BBC News - Syria crisis: The 800 year history lesson​
• Expert: Peace for Syria will not come from the outside | National ​

Just in comparison, I supported the Iraq War, on humanitarian grounds. Neo-con policy of bush, which was basically a continuation of the neo-lib policy of Clinton, was something that I thought might hold out possibilities for people, to even the playing field against the dictators behind the old Iron Curtain, or the Middle East. I really thought that the Iraqis deserved something better, and the Kosovo Muslims too.
Even when the Kosovo Muslims turned on the Serbs and ethnically cleansed the area of Serbs after their liberation, I still had hope. Even as Iraq saw the ethnic cleansing of their ancient Christian Assyrian population, I still held out hope.

I think the time I fully understood that it was the wrong policy was when the reports of Democratic strategists talking about military success in Iraq being a bad idea, because it would hurt them in the election, that I started to realize that Americans really, really had no business in the ME.

Strategizing against success in Iraq was just a bridge too far for me, and that is when I realized that America does not have what it takes to be a world leader.

I doubt very much that the Americans here who are playing with our emotions now and crying over the loss of life under the Syrian dictator felt the same way when it was America helping the Iraqis by getting rid of the Iraqi version of the same Baathist party.

So now it is all part of the partisan bullywinckles as far as I can discern.

Jeffwhosoever said:

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, concluding that the troops of President Bashar al-Assad of Syria have used chemical weapons against rebel forces in his country’s civil war, has decided to begin supplying the rebels for the first time with small arms and ammunition, according to American officials.

The officials held out the possibility that the assistance, coordinated by the Central Intelligence Agency, could include antitank weapons, but they said that for now supplying the antiaircraft weapons that rebel commanders have said they sorely need is not under consideration.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/14/world/middleeast/syria-chemical-weapons.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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It seems that Obama's brazen move has further emboldened Morsi, the radical Egyption, as well. Amid Calls for ‘Holy War,’ Egypt Severs Diplomatic Relations with Syria | TheBlaze.com

Maybe that is good news for Israel.

Sunnis versus Shia in an all out Holy War might give them a little beach time as the rockets turn away from Israel and toward each other.

TerranceL said:

Of course it's an appeal to emotion. Do yo not know what the phrase means?

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Still the same rudeness and poor attitude.

Identifying the intrinsic value of human life as important equally and qualitatively is not an appeal to "emotion".

Syria report dot net?

Who owns that?

Gxg (G²);63269333 said:

Sad to witness in action, especially as it concerns the Christians in Syria.

• Syria Militants Massacre Christian Village Population (Graphic Images),” from Syria Report,

As said there:

More details of a massacre in Homs late last month have emerged following the global outcry of a massacre in Deir el-Zour yesterday.The massacre, carried out by Free Syrian Army militants reportedly targeted men, women and children in the Christian village of al-Duwayr/Douar close to the city of Homs and the border with Lebanon. The incident received little media attention, having occurred at the same time as thousands of Syrian troops converged on the insurgent-occupied town of al-Qusayr.According to sources, around 350 heavily armed militants entered the village, broke into homes and assembled residents in the main square of the village where they were executed. The final death toll is not known but photos show severe damage to property in the village. Syrian army sources said that they reached the village after the massacre, resulting in clashes with militants.
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usexpat97 said:

Obama's bowing in to Israeli pressure. All the scandals erupting in the Executive branch--all of them just fade away if Obama will only help Israel overthrow Syria. The public's view is very narrow and has a short memory.

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Obama's bowing in to Riyadh's pressure. All the scandals erupting in the Executive branch--all of them just fade away if Obama will only help Saudi Arabia overthrow Syria. The public's view is very narrow and has a short memory.

mpok1519 said:

Syria report dot net?

Who owns that?

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Islamists killing Christians?!!


Nonsense!! That would never happen.

There reporting is obviously unbalanced.

Kalevalatar said:

Obama's bowing in to Riyadh's pressure. All the scandals erupting in the Executive branch--all of them just fade away if Obama will only help Saudi Arabia overthrow Syria. The public's view is very narrow and has a short memory.

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I would agree that Saudi Arabia has a lot more influence on American government policy than Israel in this decision too.
I have no proof of that either of course.
But I don't think that even Saudi Arabian money can make the scandals fade away. Journalists aren't influenced by SA money. If they decide ultimately that their ideology is better served by Obama, then they may stop reporting bad news about him again, but that doesn't have anything to do with SA.

SolomonVII said:

Islamists killing Christians?!!


Nonsense!! That would never happen.

There reporting is obviously unbalanced.

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I never said tragedies don't happen. But nothing about that article or website seemed bonafide.

Btw, Christians kills Muslims too. But you're less concerned with that.

mpok1519 said:

Syria report dot net?

Who owns that?

mpok1519 said:

I never said tragedies don't happen. But nothing about that article or website seemed bonafide.

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Only when one ignores the numerous other corroborating stories on the issue which were mentioned earlier - covered by BBC ( BBC News - Syria's beleaguered Christians ) or CNN and other places (in regards to Syrian Christians being harmed by Radical Islamist and other Muslims trying to defend them against such attacks - more here in #58 & #75 ) can one even begin to think "Well it must not be true." There've been enough video presentations/interviews by other Syrian Christians - including those who are refugees in other countries and those a part of the Orthodox Church taking care of them - who've noted the issue for what it is...for one doesn't have to make up the fact that Syrian Christians are being harmed immensely. Syria’s Orthodox Christian Church reports “ongoing ethnic cleansing of Christians” by al-Qaeda-linked Islamist militant groups in the embattled Syrian city of Homs. Moreover, according to reports by Barnabas Aid, a relief agency assisting Syrian Christians, the forced Christian exodus from Homs has been ongoing since the beginning of February when armed Islamists murdered more than 200 Christians, “including entire families with young children.

This is not something new, sadly, as Islamist attacks against Syria’s Christian community, including kidnappings and murder, have occurred almost from the onset of the popular uprising against the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad in March 2011. Specifically, the murders - which have killed over 100 Christians - include the hanging of a 28-year-old man, a 40 year-old father of two shot dead, two young men killed while waiting in line at a bakery, and a 37-year-old father with a pregnant wife, his body cut into pieces and thrown in a river.

Additionally, it is unfortunately the case that Syrian Islamist brigades have been getting assistance from outside terror organizations/mercenaries from Iraq and Libya, aid which Director of National Intelligence James Clapper acknowledged in February when he testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee that “al-Qaeda in Iraq is extending its reach into Syria. For those who are Syrian Christians, the times are very dire indeed...


For other places to review:

• Syria's Christians Disproportionately Affected By the War: Report

The work by Nuri Kino, award winning Swedish-Assyrian author and investigative journalist, is something that is well-documented in light of how he has met and interviewed nearly one hundred Christian Syrian refugees, giving a 40-page report on the repeated tales of systematic rape/kidnappings and many other things that many often think aren't happening in Syria to Christians...more found in Between The Barbed Wire . As Giuseppe Nazzaro, the Vicar Apostolic of Aleppo, said, “In this situation the Islamist and terrorist movements are making headway,” adding “These are bad times for religious minorities.” It is a conflict we should NOT be involved in...

I'd rather not be for poisoning the well...

Kalevalatar said:

Obama's bowing in to Riyadh's pressure. All the scandals erupting in the Executive branch--all of them just fade away if Obama will only help Saudi Arabia overthrow Syria. The public's view is very narrow and has a short memory.

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Sad ...but true when it comes to politics/misdirection.

mpok1519 said:

I never said tragedies don't happen. But nothing about that article or website seemed bonafide.

Btw, Christians kills Muslims too. But you're less concerned with that.

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Most here who have I have been communicating with would probably recognize that I am rather conservative, more Bush than Obama, more Reagan than Clinton.
Yet it was only yesterday or the day before that I mentioned that I was in support of what Clinton did in Kosovo, preventing the ethnic genocide of Kosovan Muslims at the hands of Christian Orthodox Serbs.
I even noted that the subsequent ethnic cleansing of Serbs by Kosovan Muslims did not change my support for the leadership and the stance that Clinton took.

There is no basis whatsoever for your unsubstantiated allegation that I am less concerned with Christians killing Muslims. I don't expect you to follow my every sentence here, but if you did, you wouldfully know just how wrong that you are on that account.

But there is absolutely no reason to doubt that as Islamists take control, the same pattern of Christian cleansing will repeat itself in Syria as has been the case in virtually every other country where this has taken place.

My support for Muslims in Kosovo has led to the ethnic cleansing of Serbs for their ancient homelands. I too therefore, am at least partially morally responsible for that.

Now please, enough with the nonsense that I am some kind of partisan Christian.

usexpat97 said:

As for me, I will join humanitarian efforts to help the people. And I support the government, anyway--not the Mossad-instigated rebel forces.

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What those forces have continued to do to others is truly sad when witnessing the net effect of their actions.

• Syria Militants Behead Two Christians in Idlib Countryside
• Syrians behead Christians for helping military, as CIA ships in arms

Either we in the U.S have not gotten all the facts when it comes to arming those who are on the WRONG side (and not concerned about innocents in the process) - or we're intentionally choosing to allow harm to come for more pragmatic/immoral reasons for our own benefit...for it's neither hidden nor hard to see where people in Syria are being harmed by the intervention of the U.S - no matter how much it's claimed that we "want to free them."

And as much as others say "We have to arm them!!", part of me wonders what could happen if those same people we give weapons to end up doing more damage in the future when it comes to criminal activities around the world. Part of me is reminded of the film "Eraser" - where the plot was focused on stopping Cyrez Corporation, a company that creates and manufactures weapons for the military. The company was planning on selling a top secret electronic pulse rifle to Russian terrorist Sergei Ivanovich Petrofsky - and the sale of such weapons of unparalleled firepower to the wrong hands would tip the balance of power when it came to world terrorism. It'd also allow weapons companies to have even MORE reasons to manufacture weapons for organizations combatting terrorism - with the end result being MORE money.

When I saw the film back in the day, part of me thought that folks would be crazy in government to even allow such things to occur - until doing further research and seeing the ways in which the government has often been in bed with organized crime/black markets for a long time - like what occurred with the CIA getting involved with spreading the drug trade/violence as part of a larger plan to combat U.S enemies ( #69, #70 & #74 )...and sure enough, it seems what was once within the world of film has been coming to life. The folks at Ground Zero did an excellent broadcast on covering the issue - as seen here in New Tech: World War Guaranteed - June 19, 2013 by Ground Zero.