What is the Messianic equivalent to the eucharist?

Avodat

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Isolate Eucharist to those who use it and for what meaning and purpose.. and if you participate in "eating His flesh/drinking His blood"... where did that myth come from? And with that question, you now enter into a theology that takes a person outside of scripture.

John 6 and 1 Cor. 11:17-33 - and still within Scripture!
 
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ContraMundum

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Isolate Eucharist to those who use it and for what meaning and purpose.. and if you participate in "eating His flesh/drinking His blood"... where did that myth come from? And with that question, you now enter into a theology that takes a person outside of scripture.

"This IS my Body...this IS my blood"...and John 6, as Avodat pointed out.
 
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visionary

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John 6 and 1 Cor. 11:17-33 - and still within Scripture!
And with that.. the tailspin begins as there is no foundation in OT to anchor it .. Left to the imagination... there are those who visualize they are truly eating flesh and blood as they chew the cracker and drink juice.
 
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And with that.. the tailspin begins as there is no foundation in OT to anchor it .. Left to the imagination... there are those who visualize they are truly eating flesh and blood as they chew the cracker and drink juice.

..one had to eat the Passover lamb. There's one of many OT types to look at.
 
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Avodat

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And with that.. the tailspin begins as there is no foundation in OT to anchor it .. Left to the imagination... there are those who visualize they are truly eating flesh and blood as they chew the cracker and drink juice.


In John 6 there are two groups of disciples - the ones who understood what Yeshua was saying, and those who didn't. The latter group equate to those in 1 Cor. 11:17-33 who would eat the bread and drink of the cup without discerning the body of the Lord - they walked away from him because they did not understand what he was saying - it was too difficult (See Isaiah 29 about a closed book!). The puzzle still existed as to how Yeshua could make such a statement whilst he was still in his body, given that they couldn't tuck in to him! In keeping true to his word the early Church worked out that it must mean that at some point the bread and wine must become his very body and very blood in order to make sense of John 6. The problem, then, was when does it happen? The Church then made a decision that, as it must clearly happen prior to eating it there needed to be a point at which this 'change' took place. To cut short a very long story, the bell rings at which point, thereafter, by a mystery of our faith, the bread and wine become as Yeshua's body, so fulfilling the requirement of both John 6 and 1 Cor. 11:17-33.

I suggest you read more widely on the origins - not just on the heresy you believe happens!

I'm not sure why people get so wound up on this when we see in these threads decisions made by man to overcome a great many 'problem' texts in The Book.
 
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visionary

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In John 6 there are two groups of disciples - the ones who understood what Yeshua was saying, and those who didn't. The latter group equate to those in 1 Cor. 11:17-33 who would eat the bread and drink of the cup without discerning the body of the Lord - they walked away from him because they did not understand what he was saying - it was too difficult (See Isaiah 29 about a closed book!). The puzzle still existed as to how Yeshua could make such a statement whilst he was still in his body, given that they couldn't tuck in to him! In keeping true to his word the early Church worked out that it must mean that at some point the bread and wine must become his very body and very blood in order to make sense of John 6. The problem, then, was when does it happen? The Church then made a decision that, as it must clearly happen prior to eating it there needed to be a point at which this 'change' took place. To cut short a very long story, the bell rings at which point, thereafter, by a mystery of our faith, the bread and wine become as Yeshua's body, so fulfilling the requirement of both John 6 and 1 Cor. 11:17-33.

I suggest you read more widely on the origins - not just on the heresy you believe happens!

I'm not sure why people get so wound up on this when we see in these threads decisions made by man to overcome a great many 'problem' texts in The Book.
Wow.. and the other thread on myths was trying to show that it has no damaging effects... and here we have centuries old myth.. perpetrated to the point where even eye opening perception via MJ can not mean that big a difference by some.
 
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mishkan

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You don't believe that there was a Last Supper where He commanded "do this in memory of Me" ?

There was, indeed. And that "Last Supper" was a Passover seder. Each year, when we celebrate Pesach, we remember not only the Exodus from Mitzrayim, but the purpose of that deliverance--to serve Yeshua, the King of Israel.

No communion service with chametz and grape juice in view.
 
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mishkan

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We have that from Yeshua himself, in his own words, as an eye-witness. How do you see it being taken out of context and abused, and for what 'other purposes'?

Segregating the little sippy cup of juice/wine and a piece of chametz from its context of a Pesach seder strips the entire proceeding of its true significance. I believe the whole idea of a "communion service" was invented out of whole cloth, with the purpose of distancing the memorial from anything remotely "Jewish".
 
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mishkan

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They are synonyms, along with the terms Lord's, or Last, Supper - they do not mean different things, at their root.

That is the traditional Christian claim, yes. At the heart, though, whatever we call the practice, it is an attempt to remove all thoughts of Pesach from the shared memory of the Christian world. We do them no favors to pat their hands and affirm the anti-Torah assumptions that serve as the foundation of the "communion service".

There are many words that the disciples did not use in conversation that we now readily use to describe what The Book says - why pick on these two?

True and fair. My own nick is an example--I use the modern "Mishkan David", rather than the Biblical "Sukkat David".

Look at the meanings and the action taken in The Book and think again, or are you saying that Passover should take place of Communion?

Pesach came first. The use of a "communion service" characterized by a sippy cup and a piece of chametz is the attempt at replacement, not the other way around.

If the answer to that is 'yes', where would you place 1 Cor. 11:17-33 within the Passover meal - as a Messianic I assume you have found a theologically and Christologically correct place for them at the Passover seder?

You've been to a seder, haven't you? Within that context, we are able to use the elements just as Yeshua did, using similar commentary regarding the Hillel sandwich and the "Cup of Redemption" (the name for the "cup after the supper).
 
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mishkan

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Isolate Eucharist to those who use it and for what meaning and purpose.. and if you participate in "eating His flesh/drinking His blood"... where did that myth come from? And with that question, you now enter into a theology that takes a person outside of scripture.

John 6 and 1 Cor. 11:17-33 - and still within Scripture!

Avodat, are you advocating cannibalism??? I didn't think you would go in for transubstantiation. Do you?
 
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mishkan

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In keeping true to his word the early Church worked out that it must mean that at some point the bread and wine must become his very body and very blood in order to make sense of John 6. The problem, then, was when does it happen? The Church then made a decision that, as it must clearly happen prior to eating it there needed to be a point at which this 'change' took place. To cut short a very long story, the bell rings at which point, thereafter, by a mystery of our faith, the bread and wine become as Yeshua's body, so fulfilling the requirement of both John 6 and 1 Cor. 11:17-33.

Mountains from molehills. An error of thought arising from trying to take a metaphor as literal. Again, an error that would never occur among the original audience.

In my experience, phrases like, "by a mystery of our faith", equates to, "imaginary".

I suggest you read more widely on the origins - not just on the heresy you believe happens!

The heresy lies in the claims of the majority of Christendom when they profess belief in tran-/consubstantiation. I grew up with that one. I could never comprehend how people got suckered into taking the belief seriously.

I'm not sure why people get so wound up on this when we see in these threads decisions made by man to overcome a great many 'problem' texts in The Book.

I don't see any "problem texts" in view. Just realism versus imagination, normal use of language versus hyper-literalism where the text uses metaphor... and simulataneously making metaphors of the literal texts.
 
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pat34lee

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Segregating the little sippy cup of juice/wine and a piece of chametz from its context of a Pesach seder strips the entire proceeding of its true significance. I believe the whole idea of a "communion service" was invented out of whole cloth, with the purpose of distancing the memorial from anything remotely "Jewish".

The seder, like many other traditions, seems to have been 'borrowed' from another culture. In this case, it came from the Romans. And after Yeshua's time.
Furthermore, the Seder and the Haggadah are also missing from the Second Temple period descriptions of Pesah, including a papyrus from Elephantine (419 B.C.E.), the book of Jubilees (late second century B.C.E.), Philo (20 B.C.E.-50 C.E.), and Josephus. (2)

They are first mentioned in the Mishnah and Tosefta (Pesahim Chapter 10) which scholars date to either shortly before or shortly after the Destruction of the second temple in 70 C.E. (3) What is the source of the elaborate rituals and literary forms of the Seder and Haggadah?

In the first half of the twentieth century, Lewy, Baneth, Krauss, and Goldschmidt drew attention to the fact that the forms of the Seder are based on Graeco-Roman table manners and dietary habits. But the most detailed evidence of this borrowing was provided in 1957 when Siegfried Stein published “The Influence of Symposia Literature on the Literary Form of the Pesah Haggadah” in The Journal of Jewish Studies.
The Origins of the Seder

---------------------

the earliest written forms of the Passover Haggadah text are from 8th or 9th-century Israel and appear and are preserved only as fragments.
Passover Haggadah - Pesach Haggadah

---------------------

By contrast to the Talmudic Seder, the Karaite Jewish Seder is remarkably simple. The story of the Exodus from Egypt is retold. Bitter herbs are consumed and special prayers said. The prayers and Haggadah reading can take from as little as 10 minutes to as long as about 1/2 hour. Either is shorter than a traditional Talmudic Seder. The most important difference is this: at the end of a Talmudic Seder you leave asking yourself: "what was the point?"
Silver Trumpets: Origins of the Rabbinic Passover Seder
 
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mishkan

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The seder, like many other traditions, seems to have been 'borrowed' from another culture. In this case, it came from the Romans. And after Yeshua's time.

The key word in your sentence is "seems". I've read arguments about this claim. The bottom line is, "common form does not prove that one practice mimics the other". There has been no demonstration of causality, in one direction or the other.

Of course... I also have to ask... "So what if one does borrow from the other for its forms?" What are you really trying to prove? Is this a case of grasping at any straw that will appear to diminish the rabbis?

Furthermore, the Seder and the Haggadah are also missing from the Second Temple period descriptions of Pesah, including a papyrus from Elephantine (419 B.C.E.), the book of Jubilees (late second century B.C.E.), Philo (20 B.C.E.-50 C.E.), and Josephus. (2)​

What it is NOT missing from is the Gospel accounts, which clearly describe many of the elements that we today refer to as a "seder". And all practiced without any need to teach forms, or give commentary to readers. The seder elements were regarded as so obvious that they needed no comment.

They are first mentioned in the Mishnah and Tosefta (Pesahim Chapter 10) which scholars date to either shortly before or shortly after the Destruction of the second temple in 70 C.E. (3) What is the source of the elaborate rituals and literary forms of the Seder and Haggadah?

"Scholars" have a great tendency to shift dates to the latest possible extreme. Sometimes even with a disregard for what is "possible". Consider the many academics who will claim Daniel is post-exilic literature. While the written composition of the Mishneh was begun around the turn of the first century, the material in that core of the Talmud clearly comes from much earlier times, predating Yeshua by as much as 200-400 years.

the earliest written forms of the Passover Haggadah text are from 8th or 9th-century Israel and appear and are preserved only as fragments.
Passover Haggadah - Pesach Haggadah

So?

And this one is a hoot and a half!

By contrast to the Talmudic Seder, the Karaite Jewish Seder is remarkably simple. The story of the Exodus from Egypt is retold. Bitter herbs are consumed and special prayers said. The prayers and Haggadah reading can take from as little as 10 minutes to as long as about 1/2 hour. Either is shorter than a traditional Talmudic Seder. The most important difference is this: at the end of a Talmudic Seder you leave asking yourself: "what was the point?"
Silver Trumpets: Origins of the Rabbinic Passover Seder

LOL! Whoever wrote this partisan rubbish has never attended one of my seders.
 
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Avodat

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Avodat, are you advocating cannibalism??? I didn't think you would go in for transubstantiation. Do you?

I find it quite easy to explain the positions taken by other Christians - they do not always reflect my own position, however! There seem to be very few on here who look at the other side of an argument and try to understand how things came about - some with a very logical, if erroneous, result. The myth to which Visionary refers was not a myth at all - it was how the early Church struggled with the texts they had before them, without the (apparently) better education from which we benefit. Most Christians have moved on from those views and can see the difference between literal and allegorical etc., without too much trouble; it does everyone no harm to learn and appreciate the origins. Rather than trash the work of those who went before us in their struggle to do what we are doing, it is better to study the history behind the problems you see in order to work it through instead making wild allegations about myths and unscriptural actions or understandings.

Neither cannibalism nor TS is a belief of mine - far from it. But I can put the case of those who do believe it, and why they came to believe it so that others can appreciate their efforts to understand G_d and his word in centuries or millennia past. This does not, of course, cover some of the things that were decided on in what appears to be a fairly random way. :)
 
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mishkan

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Fair enough.

I've just gotten to the point where I decline to promote views I find clearly deficient. I don't mind sharing multiple opinions when they all have merit. But why promote a majority opinion that already gets plenty of air time, but ignores the Jewish background to the issues?

As political commentator Rush Limbaugh likes to say, "I don't have to give equal time--I am equal time!"

Most Christians have moved on from those views and can see the difference between literal and allegorical etc., without too much trouble;

Oooooh... if only this were true.


I find it quite easy to explain the positions taken by other Christians - they do not always reflect my own position, however! There seem to be very few on here who look at the other side of an argument and try to understand how things came about - some with a very logical, if erroneous, result. The myth to which Visionary refers was not a myth at all - it was how the early Church struggled with the texts they had before them, without the (apparently) better education from which we benefit. Most Christians have moved on from those views and can see the difference between literal and allegorical etc., without too much trouble; it does everyone no harm to learn and appreciate the origins. Rather than trash the work of those who went before us in their struggle to do what we are doing, it is better to study the history behind the problems you see in order to work it through instead making wild allegations about myths and unscriptural actions or understandings.

Neither cannibalism nor TS is a belief of mine - far from it. But I can put the case of those who do believe it, and why they came to believe it so that others can appreciate their efforts to understand G_d and his word in centuries or millennia past. This does not, of course, cover some of the things that were decided on in what appears to be a fairly random way. :)
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I really don't think one should mix up the practice of the Pesach Seder (which remembers the exodus) with the eucharistic ceremony (which remembers the Cross and anticipates the second advent).

Whether or not the eucharistic celebration was insituted on Pesach or not, it is not intended to remember the exodus in the way a Pesach seder does. It has another function. They may have some common form, but they have different functions and are instituted for different purposes. This is why I think both should be done at their own appointed times.

A lot of people get stuck in the either/or paradigm. Either it's all about Pesach or it's all about communion. I say it's both/and.
Good points and thanks for sharing them. There are some good threads that give good information on the issue - such as in threads like #1, #11, #81, #427, Was the Lord's supper Passover? and What is your personal view on Communion/Eucharist/L-rd's Supper? [

For Jews coming from a background of liturgy/mysticism, it is natural for them to see no issue with things concenring Eucharist.



There are many Messianics who celebrate Eucharist, although they may differ in their understanding of it than others who do so. Passover can vary, although most note where Christ is the Passover Lamb and the focus...as with all OT types pointing to Him and all things done in remembrance of him. The Lord's Feast (per I Corinthians 11 ) - which was deemed as SEPERATE from Passover in the early Jewish communities - is something many choose to do either weekly, monthly or every other month. Many don't have a set schedule - but they do take seriously what Paul noted when it comes to not sinning against the Body of the Lord by mistreating others and acting as if the event is merely an exercise in symbols instead of a truly HOLY event amongst believers. In early Jewish culture, there have been debates on the frequency of how much the event should be done

Many people, from what I understand, don't really care to do things like Communion/the Last SUpper due to the belief that anything/everything from the Torah itself is the only thing that should be celebrated. Moreover, in their minds, most of what they see with Communion is not to be tolerated since the think it is not truly "Jewish."

This is seen, for example, whenever others have raised issue saying "Communion itself done by Churches is fake since they use wafers rather than REAL bread like the OT culture!!!!". I disagree with them whenever they've done that (as it's mainly Gentiles saying such)---and many Jewish brothers/sisters have never had an issue trying to celebrate both in a godly manner. For those who are Hebrew Catholics and who saw wafers just as they saw unleaven bread broken, that is something I'll not dismiss quickly.

There was an excellent read you may be interested in, called "The Blessing of Bread: The Many Rich Traditions of Jewish Bread Baking Around the World " which described one type of bread in Israel that was a precursor to waffers (as it discussed here). The example of Manna comes immediately to mind since Exodus 16:30-32 says it was "white like coriander seed and tasted like wafers made with honey." As manna was given in the wilderness to provide for God's people ( Numbers 11, Deuteronomy 8, Nehemiah 9:19-21 Psalm 78:23-25 ) and the Lord described Himself as the Manna--the BRead--that came from Heaven to feed the people ( John 6:57-59 / John 6, Revelation 2:16-18, etc )..and as the Last Supper incorporated the same theme of believers partaking of the Lord symbolically, it's why waffer's are utilized in remembrance when it comes to celebrating. It is indeed apart of a Jewish heritage..and something to take seriously as with other things connected to Yeshua (as I Corinthians 11:17 notes).


As it concerns seeing things differently than before, Yeshua had the same dynamic go down when he instituted the Last Supper and did it DIFFERENTLY than a traditional passover was done with the drinking of wine/the cup he used. Christ did not eat matzah at the Last Supper, which was not the Passover Meal. He was crucified on the eve of Passover, before the Passover Meal. The afikomen and cups of wine WERE added to the Passover feast. The fact that Jesus used the cups of wine shows that He had no heartburn with them, but incorporated the wine into His Communion Supper with His disciples--which we remember to this day, every time we partake of the bread and wine in Holy Communion. It was a new ritual 'the cup of the new covenant'. Mosaic Torah does NOT command drinking the fruit of the vine at a Pesach Seder commemorating the Egyptian Exodus -- BUT Messiah DOES command drinking the fruit of the vine during the L-RD'S Supper at His Table commemorating Yeshua's death according to Matthew 26:26-32 and 1st Corinthians 11:23-29

To be clear, Yeshua's usage of wine was not fully disconnected from all aspects of the Hebrew traditions, as the betrothal period is spent in the parents' home preparing and being prepared for life as a wife or husband. When remembering that and seeing what occurred in the Last Supper in places like John 13 and John 14.2-3, one can see aspects of betrothal language.

The bridegroom would go to his father's house and prepare a place for his bride to live and work to provide for her needs, and he was only allowed to go and get his Bride when his father said he was ready to take care of her. Yeshua cannot return for his Bride, for whom he is preparing a place, until his Father says, "Go and bring your Bride."

The 'cup after supper' that Yeshua passed was a part of the betrothal tradition, as the potential groom would bring a cup of wine and sip it. He would then hand it to the potential bride. If she sipped it, she was accepting his proposal of marriage and from that moment they were legally hitched. Combined with Jn.14.2-3, and the probability that the disciples understood all this tradition, every one of the disciples who drank of that cup knew what it was - including Judas.


I've heard that Yeshua's use of bread and wine at Pesach signified a change in the priesthood. Malki-Tzedek, a cohen of El'Elyon, had served bread and wine to Avram when he blessed him (Genesis 14:18-20). Now Yeshua served the same to his talmidim (Matthew 26:26-29), and he has been made cohen forever, a different kind of cohen, like Malki-Tzedek (Hebrews 7-8). Cool to consider, of course. But all of that is to say how certain aspects of Jewish tradition were never meant to occur the same in all cases.



For some good resources to review:
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Gxg (G²)

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The Eucharist (also known as Communion, the Last Supper, the Lord's Supper etc etc) is based solely on the the words in 1 Corinthians 11:17-33. These are the words from an eyewitness who was present on the night Yeshua ate the meal, described in the Gospels as having taken place on the night he was betrayed - namely Yeshua himself. Try reading the words in the first person singular ie '...on the night in which I was betrayed, I took bread...' - it gives a far better understanding of the import of what is said, rather than just reading Paul's writing of what Yeshua said.

So, in answer to the OP, the Eucharist is simply a re-enactment of that last meal Yeshua enjoyed with his disciples before they went outside, sang a few songs and had a time of prayer - before 'Judas' turned up. There is not an equivalent one in sense, because it is for all who believe in Yeshua as the Messiah, though MJ's tend to ignore it because of wrong theology making it some sort of latter day attempt at re-writing the Passover seder. The connection with the Passover comes about not so much because of what Paul wrote, but because of the fact that the Gospels refer to Yeshua indicating that the meal they ate, the night before he was arrested and put on trial, was 'the Passover' which he had sent his disciples to prepare in a village ahead of them. Do remember that Paul wrote his words before the Gospel writers put pen to paper, and they clearly did not feel the need to correct what he had written!

It is a memorial of that last supper they had together - as Yeshua says: Do this in memory of me. The bread and the wine were two of the items on the table to which Yeshua, in his words, gave special significance - they were NOT the only items on the table! They were symbolic of the Bread of Affliction and the Cup of Life and Joy - the latter being the new covenant, a 'Covenant of Life and Joy' offered to us through Yeshua having given up his life, voluntarily, to cover those sins we do not realise we have committed (those we know about we have to repent of, as always) - we can, at last, be at one with G_d by living as Yeshua showed us how to. It does not mean that he ditched the original Covenant or that G_d has finished with the Jews or with Israel or any of the greatly mis-guided theories that pass for theology!
In John 6 there are two groups of disciples - the ones who understood what Yeshua was saying, and those who didn't. The latter group equate to those in 1 Cor. 11:17-33 who would eat the bread and drink of the cup without discerning the body of the Lord - they walked away from him because they did not understand what he was saying - it was too difficult (See Isaiah 29 about a closed book!). The puzzle still existed as to how Yeshua could make such a statement whilst he was still in his body, given that they couldn't tuck in to him! In keeping true to his word the early Church worked out that it must mean that at some point the bread and wine must become his very body and very blood in order to make sense of John 6. The problem, then, was when does it happen? The Church then made a decision that, as it must clearly happen prior to eating it there needed to be a point at which this 'change' took place. To cut short a very long story, the bell rings at which point, thereafter, by a mystery of our faith, the bread and wine become as Yeshua's body, so fulfilling the requirement of both John 6 and 1 Cor. 11:17-33.

.
Good analysis:thumbsup:

There was an excellent read on the issue I think you'd be blessed by - entitled Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist: Unlocking the Secrets of the Last Supper by Brant Pitre (as seen here, here, here ). Very good review as it concerns the ways other Jewish believers felt on the concept of the Eucharist and the dynamics of how Jewish culture was well represented in it. Additionally, for good reference, One can also go here as well./investigate places such as Old Testament Sacrifice: Magic or Sacrament? or Exodus 12: The Meal that Teaches Salvation (Devotional 17)

Catholic Jews are very interesting to study when it comes to the issue.

For those who are Jewish - born and raised in Judaism - and yet involved in those camps of Christendom which have a more mystical bent, it often seems that many of the protests against the Eucharist by other Messianics are in the same vein as what other Protestants often do when it comes to rationalization/"Sola Scriptura" in the name of defending the tradition of scripture...and yet bringing their own interpretations on the text.

One Jewish believer, known as Fr.James Bernstein, noted it best in regards to his journey out of Orthodox Judaism into the Body of Christ and seeing the ways that much of what he experienced was directly in line with the temple mindset he was taught to appreciate in his Jewish heritage:

 
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Gxg (G²);62817847 said:
.....]For Jews coming from a background of liturgy/mysticism, it is natural for them to see no issue with things concenring Eucharist.. _
It is like saying Buddists have no issue with the Eucharist... because it has nothing to do with this faith.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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It is like saying Buddists have no issue with the Eucharist... because it has nothing to do with this faith.
Seeing that Buddists don't have any connection with the Eucharist, of course it'd not be an issue. Nonetheless, for Jewish believers throughout the centuries who understood their faith, hearing others outside of it telling them "It has nothing to do with their faith!!!" would be akin to a Gentile telling them that rabbinical traditions (including the mystical ones) have nothing to do with their walk with Yeshua - even though they grew up understanding the nuances of Jewish tradition and would see that what was said against them was essentially an argument based on ignorance of what happened historically, even if the zeal was in place (Proverbs 19:2)

Liturgy was a big part of early Jewish culture and there was always a dynamic of mystery involved with much of what the rabbis did in the synagogue services...and one would have to intentionally ignore much of early history to say otherwise. For good review on the matter from a Messianic Jewish/Jewish Christian perspective, one may consider the following:

Also, there was an excellent review on the issue here and here on the matter ....as there've been other Jewish believers involved in Eastern CHristianity who've often noted the same (if going here, here, here, here, here, here, here) and here at at Jewish Christianity in apostolic times: A native Jewish Church ).


Moreover, for good study material, one may consider a good E-Book that is freely availableentitled "The History Of Jewish Christianity: From the First to the Twentieth Century" by Hugh J Schonfield. Moreover, in addition to that, another to consider is Nazarene Jewish Christianity: from the end of the New Testament Until Its Disappearance in the Fourth Century (Studia Post-Biblica)... By Ray Pritz - a comprehensive study of the heirs of the earliest Jerusalem church, their history and doctrines, their relations with both synagogue and the growing Gentile church...with the author analyzing all sources, Jewish, Christian, and pagan, which can throw light on the sect and its ultimate mysterious disappearance).

The history of the early body of believers is what's to inform us today as it concerns how the Jewish believers handled themselves..if we're to be accurate as much as possible with assessment on what was held central. As Avodat suggested, it'd be beneficial for others to actually study history/see what other Jewish disciples of the Lord said rather than assuming what they did not advocate....
 
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Gxg (G²)

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In John 6 there are two groups of disciples - the ones who understood what Yeshua was saying, and those who didn't. The latter group equate to those in 1 Cor. 11:17-33 who would eat the bread and drink of the cup without discerning the body of the Lord - they walked away from him because they did not understand what he was saying - it was too difficult (See Isaiah 29 about a closed book!). The puzzle still existed as to how Yeshua could make such a statement whilst he was still in his body, given that they couldn't tuck in to him! In keeping true to his word the early Church worked out that it must mean that at some point the bread and wine must become his very body and very blood in order to make sense of John 6. The problem, then, was when does it happen? The Church then made a decision that, as it must clearly happen prior to eating it there needed to be a point at which this 'change' took place. To cut short a very long story, the bell rings at which point, thereafter, by a mystery of our faith, the bread and wine become as Yeshua's body, so fulfilling the requirement of both John 6 and 1 Cor. 11:17-33.

...I'm not sure why people get so wound up on this when we see in these threads decisions made by man to overcome a great many 'problem' texts in The Book.
Indeed,

The early Jewish church understood the concept of redeemption by blood as being based on what occurred with the Levitical sacrifices when a spotless lamb was presented before the priests, sacrificed and atonement happened with the shedding of blood since life was in the blood....and with Christ, His blood is what justified the believer, according to the early church..

Interestingly enough, the concept of the blood being what saved came across as cannibalism toward outsiders to the world of believers...and they constantly had to defend against it...noting that partaking of it was no different than partaking of the Passover Lamb - except for them, Yeshua was the sacrifice they partook of in remembrance...and in a symbolic way and mysterious dynamic of connecting with him. For good study resources:

The blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins...and when we confess our sins, it cleanses us.
1 John 1:4
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.
Luk 22:17
For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide [it] among yourselves

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.


Revelation 5:10
8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign[a] on the earth.”
John 6:52-54

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.


Acts 20:27-29
27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock

Romans 3:24-26
24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[a] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Romans 5:8-10
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life.....


Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
Ephesians 1:6-8



Colossians 1:19-21
19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. 21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior.



Hebrews 9:11-13
The Blood of Christ
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining[b] eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.



Hebrews 9:24-26
24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.



Hebrews 13:11-13
11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore.



1 Peter 1:16

17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.



1 John 1:6-8
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[a] sin. 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.




Revelation 1:4
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.




 
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