Why do bad things happen to good people?

timbo3 · Dec 8, 2012

strangertoo said:
everyone is 'teachable' ...all knees will bow to Jesus, try Love and find out that it works far better for them too than sin...

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

God's 'pleasure' is that the wicked turn and Love , and He will do all His pleasure , as He has said He will from the start that ALL will accept His counsel and so Love all...

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways;

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Not everyone is teachable, for by the designation of "goats" against the contrast of "sheep" at Matthew 25:32, 33, Jesus establishes that "sheep" are ready to follow the "shepherd", whereas "goats" do not. It is well known that goats follow no one, but pursue their own direction.

On the other hand, sheep are known as closely following their shepherd, with him just calling out to them when he is leaving. In so doing, Jesus said of himself as a "shepherd", that "the sheep listen to his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out."(John 10:3)

You quoted Philippians 2:10, that says "that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend ( "should bend", Greek kampse, that is in the subjunctive mood, which expresses "doubts, wishes,and possibilities") of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground." This shows that though Jesus was given a "superior position and kindly gave him a name above every other name" by Jehovah God (Phil 2:9), that everyone should bend their knees to him in obeisance, but that most will not.

There is the ' wish or possibility ' that some will come around to love Jehovah and his Son Jesus, bending the knee to him as God's appointed judge and king.(Isa 9:6; John 5:22) Some do. However, it need be realized that the vast majority of mankind will never ' bend the knee ' to Jesus as the one appointed as king of God's kingdom.

Jesus said: "For just as in the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."(Matt 24:37-39)

Jehovah God has no pleasure in anyone dying, but most will never submit to his rulership, shedding the "old personality" and putting on the "new personality" that is imitation of Jesus.(Col 3:9, 10) Most will never follow in Jesus "footsteps" (1 Pet 2:21) by going "into whatever city or village you enter, search(ing) out who in it is deserving."(Matt 10:11) Most will never call upon Jehovah's name in faith, as such ones as Abel, Noah, Abraham, along with a whole host of others.(Heb 11)

Thus, God will bring this "system of things" down, culminating in the destruction of Babylon the Great or world empire of false religion (Rev 17:5; 18:8), greedy commercialism, and the "wild beast" (Rev 13:1, 2) or all human governments.(Rev 19:19-21) Only those who allow themselves to be "taught by Jehovah" will remain.(John 6:45; Isa 54:13) The apostle Paul, quoting from Joel 2:32, said: "For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved."(Rom 10:13; Prov 18:10)

strangertoo · Dec 8, 2012

timbo3 said:
Not everyone is teachable, for by the designation of "goats" against the contrast of "sheep" at Matthew 25:32, 33, Jesus establishes that "sheep" are ready to follow the "shepherd", whereas "goats" do not. It is well known that goats follow no one, but pursue their own direction.

I would suggest you herd goats to find out that is false and not something 'everyone knows' ... but seriously, men repent and change from being unbelievers to believers... first few [Matt 7:14] , later countless many in the kingdom [Rev 7:9-10], in the end God's pleasuer is that all the wicked turn and He will do all His pleasure as he says he will and none can stop Him... so why would you doubt God and Jesus when they say repeatedly that all men will turn to Love in time ? ... God is the god of all men and Love is His power, why do you doubt that against God's and Jesus' witness and that of the saints and prphets? ...I do not get why you would even want to... is it personal anger against injustices ?

You quoted Philippians 2:10, that says "that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend ( "should bend", Greek kampse, that is in the subjunctive mood, which expresses "doubts, wishes,and possibilities") of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground." This shows that though Jesus was given a "superior position and kindly gave him a name above every other name" by Jehovah God (Phil 2:9), that everyone should bend their knees to him in obeisance, but that most will not.

dunno why you did not read the rest or why you doubt God's power :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

There is the ' wish or possibility ' that some will come around to love Jehovah and his Son Jesus, bending the knee to him as God's appointed judge and king.(Isa 9:6; John 5:22) Some do. However, it need be realized that the vast majority of mankind will never ' bend the knee ' to Jesus as the one appointed as king of God's kingdom.

but the above scripture states they will, Jesus' own witness, why do you not believe him, he came to destroy all sin ...do you think failure is an option for God ? - could God be the god of all men if He failed anyone ?

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

God counsel of Love WILL stand , no-one will resist it in the end , God said so from the beginning , it is not in doubt, Love is more powerful than sin because it really is a better way of life for everyone, God has only to persuade folks to try it when they have seen sin fail them...

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

But I just don't get why you don't believe what is written ... Jesus only task in two earths, three heavens is to bring all to the third heaven by means of perfection of Love by the three baptisms... the method is foolproof, Jesus uses the first few to build the perfect kingdom in the new earth where most are saved after death freethem from sin and they see Love in action in teh righteous new earth... then those who are left after judgement day are baptised in the lake of fire, final trial to perfect their Love as the wicked realise they cannot benefit from evil without easy prey ... God simply took away their prey to make the point... slavaion is progressive in stages then, so why do you judge it after only teh first or second stage and not listen to the witness of God and Jesus of the end point... Jesus is the END and there can be n end until all are saved , there is nowhere else to go but the third heaven and one can only get there by salvation [translation to spirit] , death is denied in the lake of fire and there is an END as Jesus says ...

so why do you not see that Love wins folks over in the end? ...why do you not have faith in God, in Love, in Jesus' stated purpose ?

dollarsbill · Dec 9, 2012

Matthew 25:41-46 (NASB)
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

All the deceivers in the world will not change what God said.

he-man · Dec 9, 2012

timbo3 said:
Psalms 11:5 does not accurately say that "The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.",

2Ch 21:18 And after all this the LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease.

timbo3 · Dec 11, 2012

he-man said:
2Ch 21:18 And after all this the LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease.

Your quoting from 2 Chronicles 21:18 and trying to tie it with Psalms 11:5, whereby the King James Bible reads that "the Lord trieth the righteous", does not fit. For one, king Jehoram proved to be wicked. Immediately upon receiving the kingship of Judah from Jehoshaphat his father, he killed all six of his younger brothers, and even some of the princes.(2 Chron 21:4)

Furthermore, he married Jezebel's daughter, Athaliah (and the granddaughter of Omri), who gave him wicked counsel (2 Chron 22:3) and because of her greed for power after the death of her son Ahaziah, had all but one grandchild slaughtered.(2 Chron 22:10, 11)

Hence, because the nation of Israel was in a covenant relationship with Jehovah God, with all the people agreeing to this (Ex 19:8), then God took decisive action against Jehoram as king of the 2 tribe kingdom of Judah, causing him to die a horrible death.(2 Chorn 21:15, 18)

Jehoram never relented in his attachment to the false gods of the surrounding nations despite his sickness.(2 Chron 21:11) He rejected the faithfulness of his father, Jehoshaphat, to Jehovah God and proceeded to "walk in the way of the kings of Israel."(2 Chron 21:13)

Psalms 11:5 says that "Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates."(New World Translation) He is carefully examining all mankind, with "his eyes....roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him."(2 Chron 16:9)

Thus, he has been sending his "people" throughout the earth to accomplish a global educational campaign, teaching people of all nations to come to know him intimately.(Matt 24:14; John 17:3)

When this vital work is complete according to Jehovah, then Jesus will separate righteous from wicked, "sheep from goats."(Matt 25:32) At this time, there begins the "great tribulation", a 2 part event, first of the destruction of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion at the hands of the political elements (Rev 17:16, 17) and then of the rest of mankind, which includes all political governments as well as greedy commercialism.(Rev 16:14, 16; 19:19-21)

Having examined all of mankind, he has passed judgment on the "wicked", for Psalms 11:4 says that God's "own beaming eyes examine the sons of men", and has found the vast majority unworthy of life.(Matt 7:13, 14)

he-man · Dec 13, 2012

strangertoo said:
sadly indeed you already decided to believe the deceivers whereas any literal translation reveals the error :-

Matthew 25:41 {YLT} Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
...
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.

Broken record???
Pr 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

Pr 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

strangertoo · Jan 15, 2013

the day of the Lord marks only the beginning of the end of this world and death of all who are still sinners by time of Jesus' return to take his few saints -Jude 1:14...

the many really are destroyed [Matt 7:13] and yet all are freed from hell eventually [Rev 20:13] according to Jesus' own witness and countless many saved by judgement day, so freed from sin by death [Romans 6:7] not grace ... so that shows how far divided religion is from scripture even on the subject of salvation and destruction of evil...

Jesus reveals that all teh world will worship Satan as God [Rev 13:3-4] excepting only teh few who find the way of Love[Matt 7:14] of God and Jesus, that is stop sinning and obey God by Love instead of all sins...[Ezek 18:24]

thus you need to learn from scripture that salvation is in STAGES , not all at once , taht the many change their mind about Love AFTER death , not now, that FEW find the way of Love now -Matt 7:14

SavedByGrace3 · Jan 22, 2013

The reality is that God is allowing everything to happen by course of nature. Look around you. The terrible events like school shootings are a drop in the bucket, no, an atom in the bucket when compared to the things like the horror of abortion. God is not behind these things nor is He allowing them to happen with "validation" or with "authentication". He is allowing them to happen just as He allows everything to happen since Adam left the garden. We are in an age that is not only fallen, but that is falling. The horrors we see are merely the symptoms of that fall.
It is lazy theology and lazy faith to say "God is in control of everything" when obviously He is not controlling everything. God is not behind the death of children, the sickness and disease of millions, earthquakes, tsunamis, wars, etc. etc.
When I say He allows these things I mean He is not granting immediate and specific permission for an event to occur. Doing so would mean He considered the specific event, validated it as something that He wanted to happen, and then orchestrated it's passing. When God acts in our lives and in the world around us, it is to INTERVENE against evil, not orchestrate it. Since God is allowing everything to happen by default, then no single event has any real meaning. It is just one more event occuring in a fallen/falling world.
Salvation, deliverance, healing, answered prayers, etc are all interventions against the current evil satan ruled world. You see God and His nature in His works, which are interventions.
So the question has to be corrected. It is not "why did God allow" this to happen.... the question is "why did God not intervene" against the evil?

Perhaps nobody asked?

funtimes · Jan 22, 2013

All evil comes only from God as a punishment for sins...

Leviticus 26

3 If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, 4 I will send you rain in its season, and the ground will yield its crops and the trees their fruit. 5 Your threshing will continue until grape harvest and the grape harvest will continue until planting, and you will eat all the food you want and live in safety in your land.

6 I will grant peace in the land, and you will lie down and no one will make you afraid.

14 But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.

18 If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. 19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. 20 Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of your land yield their fruit.

21 If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

23 If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, 24 I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over. 25 And I will bring the sword on you to avenge the breaking of the covenant. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. 26 When I cut off your supply of bread, ten women will be able to bake your bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat, but you will not be satisfied.

27 If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. 30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you. 31 I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings. 32 I myself will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins. 34 Then the land will enjoy its sabbath years all the time that it lies desolate and you are in the country of your enemies; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 All the time that it lies desolate, the land will have the rest it did not have during the sabbaths you lived in it.

36 As for those of you who are left, I will make their hearts so fearful in the lands of their enemies that the sound of a windblown leaf will put them to flight. They will run as though fleeing from the sword, and they will fall, even though no one is pursuing them. 37 They will stumble over one another as though fleeing from the sword, even though no one is pursuing them. So you will not be able to stand before your enemies. 38 You will perish among the nations; the land of your enemies will devour you. 39 Those of you who are left will waste away in the lands of their enemies because of their sins; also because of their ancestors sins they will waste away.

40 But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestorstheir unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me, 41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemiesthen when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, 42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees.

he-man · Jan 22, 2013

didaskalos said:
It is lazy theology and lazy faith to say "God is in control of everything" when obviously He is not controlling everything. God is not behind the death of children, the sickness and disease of millions, earthquakes, tsunamis, wars, etc. etc.

3 The eyes of the Lord are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. Prov 15:3 (KJV) 4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Prov 16:4 (KJV)

didaskalos said:
So the question has to be corrected. It is not "why did God allow" this to happen.... the question is "why did God not intervene" against the evil?

didaskalos said:
Perhaps nobody asked?

That is because they do not wish to face the answer: 10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Job 2:10 (KJV)

11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: Job 42:11 (KJV)

15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Josh 24:15 (KJV)

49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. Psalms 78:49 (KJV)

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; Deut 30:15 (KJV)

15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you.
Josh 23:15 (KJV)

35 I the Lord have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die. Num 14:35 (KJV)

16] And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the Lord was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite. 17 And David spake unto the Lord when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: 2 Sam 24:16-17 (KJV) 15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the Lord beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed 1 Chron 21:15 (KJV)

33] And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the Lord; what should I wait for the Lord any longer?
2 Kings 6:33 (KJV)

strangertoo · Jan 24, 2013

I think there is misunderstanding here about control... control does not prevent evil because Love can only be CHOSEN FREELY , else it would not be Love if not given freely without expectation of return...
God knows full well that men choose sin freely in vain hope that they can have a better life than others that way ... thus men choose to deny other men life and treat others unequally and much evil compounds on that ... and God also allows nature to be by rules that punish men for disrespect of our planet ... even eventually the end of evil here is by destruction of this earth and heavens once God has the few saints he requires to set up Jesus' kingdom of love in the new earth... that is how few please Good in their lives in all man's history on earth, just tens of thousands out on well over ten billions ...Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8
so natural disaster is integral to God's control as those who WILL not Love now according to Jesus command , so cannot have grace because they remain sinners following Satan, not Christ, to death, must be freed of sin involuntarily by death [Romans 6:7] , freed from hell once the kingdom is ready [Rev 20:13] to teach billions to Love [or die a second death for contnued sin] and judged by WORKS not grace [Rev 20:13], that is works AFTER death frees men from sin, works of Love in the Loving kingdom of Jesus the Christ...
so God's control of man takes TIME , as does all control ... and God sues evil for good , it brings man abck to Love when our sin bears fruit in our conflict within and misery in life ... for God is RIGHT, only Love, not sin, brings lasting happiness, God si no tyrant in letting us suffer sins of ourselves and others until we see sin just doesn't work , brings disaster on us, even the end of this earth and heavens in the greatest tribulation for all sinners when God has taken his few saints...

he-man · Jan 24, 2013

strangertoo said:
so natural disaster is integral to God's control as those who WILL not Love now according to Jesus command , so cannot have grace because they remain sinners
God sues evil for good

Yep, God controls everything, even evil.

Pr 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. 4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Psa 35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them.

6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them
8 Let destruction come upon him at unawares; and let his net that he hath hid catch himself: into that very destruction let him fall.

strangertoo said:
it brings man abck to Love when our sin bears fruit in our conflict within and misery in life ... for God is RIGHT, only Love, not sin, brings lasting happiness, God si no tyrant in letting us suffer sins of ourselves and others until we see sin just doesn't work , brings disaster on us, even the end of this earth and heavens in the greatest tribulation for all sinners when God has taken his few saints...

Yep, we choose to obey or not to obey.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Exo 14:21 And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.

27 And Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to his strength when the morning appeared; and the Egyptians fled against it; and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.

28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.

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Why do bad things happen to good people?

timbo3

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strangertoo

sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8

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dollarsbill

Well-Known Member

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he-man

he-man

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timbo3

Newbie

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he-man

he-man

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strangertoo

sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8

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SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)

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funtimes

Active Member

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he-man

he-man

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strangertoo

sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8

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he-man

he-man

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