AMDG

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That picture in itself, expresses the problem with conservatism....an appeal to people's barbaric killing side. Aren't animals God's creatures, and don't they have a certain dignity and aren't we to care for them and not see them all as dinner? That type of billboard panders to the lowest levels, the underbelly of our culture....so palinesque...see something God made? SHOOT IT!

God made the animals to serve man--not the other way around.

I think that's the problem with the environmentalist movement that basically worships gaia. They have their priorities upside down. Man is the highest. He was made to keep the rest of God's creation. God made it to serve him.

IMO Conservatives actually have their priorities in order. They see things as they are supposed to be. They actually care for environment (not worship it). They care for the environment (culling herds, subdueing the wild, husbanding the land, tending the environment) for their own benefit. They are obeying God's word to subdue the land and keep it.
 
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FullyMT

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I didn't pay any federal income tax via payroll or April 15 taxes because I had been out of the country volunteering for the first 6 months and didn't get a 6 hr/week job (while in graduate school) until September. Unless the interest that accumulated on my unsubsidized federal loans count as taxes (not sure if those go to some bank or the govt once I get them payed off).

For 2012, I've been paying payroll taxes, but expecting to get at least a small refund.
 
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Fantine

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AMDG said:
IMO Conservatives actually have their priorities in order. They see things as they are supposed to be. They actually care for environment (not worship it). They care for the environment (culling herds, subdueing the wild, husbanding the land, tending the environment) for their own benefit. They are obeying God's word to subdue the land and keep it.

It is so good to know that we finally agree on something, AMDG. So you, too, believe that we need more sensible regulation for companies, especially those that are deforesting our lands, drilling for natural gas in ways that destroy our water supply and trigger small earthquakes near fault lines, and drilling for oil in the deep seas of the Gulf of Mexico (for starters).

It is good to know that you, too, are concerned about our food supply--hormone fed cattle and hogs, livestock shot up with antibiotics, irradiated food, genetically engineered seed.

I never knew you were concerned about all these things, but I see now that you are a thoughtful, reflective person...

Or maybe you're just talking about hunting, and if so, never mind.
 
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TheOtherHockeyMom

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God made the animals to serve man--not the other way around.

I think that's the problem with the environmentalist movement that basically worships gaia. They have their priorities upside down. Man is the highest. He was made to keep the rest of God's creation. God made it to serve him.

IMO Conservatives actually have their priorities in order. They see things as they are supposed to be. They actually care for environment (not worship it). They care for the environment (culling herds, subdueing the wild, husbanding the land, tending the environment) for their own benefit. They are obeying God's word to subdue the land and keep it.

Full disclosure here, I'm a longtime vegan and environmentalist (with a job and education that keeps me close to the issues and research). I'm not an environmentalist because I worship someone named Gaia, but because I'm a mother and hope to see my young kids grow up to be happy healthy adults. I also recognize that we need to continue using fossil fuels while we transition.

I haven't seen many examples of conservatives caring for the environment, in fact, what I see is conservative think tanks suppressing the data and research to fool the public into thinking we aren't in a crisis. In a world where so many people form their opinions based on anecdotes and feelings, while discounting facts and data, this is alarmingly easy.

Now to the Virgil's sig. picture, while I support anyone's right to speak their mind, I'm surprised that someone who is also asking for prayers and support in looking for a job would also post a sig. that is designed to poke at a significant chunk of the population. It's been my experience that good jobs are often found by networking (I've personally connected people I've only 'met' online with job offers that cross my desk). Why go out of your way to cut back your network?
 
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TheOtherHockeyMom

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Fantine, we don't agree. I see some of the regulations (particularly the over-regulations we have now) as harming not helping.
Since you've given this some thought, I'd be interested to know, in your own words, which environmental regulations we currently have that are harmful and why..
 
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AMDG

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Since you've given this some thought, I'd be interested to know, in your own words, which environmental regulations we currently have that are harmful and why..

For one, God did not make animals and man on an equal footing. Animals are to serve man. It doesn't seem to me that the environmentatlists seem to realize that. They seem to have turned it on it's head thinking that animals have the same rights as man (and sometimes more rights at the exspense of man.) It seems to me that the it's the very hunters that PETA detests, are the very conservationists that actually are looking out for the environment. They are the ones who have to make sure that the herds are culled of weak and sick, so that there are healthy animals who have enough grazing land, and fresh water to remain healthy. If PETA had it's way there would be overpopulation and starvation and death and disease from rotting animal corpses in the water simply because the animals are not managed properly.

As to water, how about all that rich farmland in California going without water because some environmentatist found a "snail darter" or something and to allow the people to have water would hurt the environment for the little fish. Result? 40% unemployment. Dust bowl conditions. Yep, crops gone because of the little fish. We get to look forward to a food shortage there. People die to protect the fish. I guess people don't count. (I just wish that these people would think things through. If things like this continue, there wont be any people to protect the darn fish in the first place!)

Like the air regulations. I swear the environmentalists don't think. Where I live people cannot burn outside trash. However, accross the street it's okay for people to burn trash! Err--I guess they don't realize that the wind blows the pollution across the street! IOW it only makes neighbors bring their things to burn accross the street--nothing more.

Reminds me of that nonsense with the air quality and those "cap and trade" regulations of the U.S. We are supposed to live under all sorts of regulations and closing coal plants (costing thousands of jobs for *people*) but it's okay if some place like China doesn't? Ever here about wind?

I surely wish that many of the environmentalists would start to realize that man is at the apex. Animals, Birds, Fish, water, Earth is there to support man, not the other way around.

And what's this thing about thinking that the earth is fragile? So fragile that if it's "looked at the wrong way" it will break. I keep wanting to send a news flash to them--God made the earth and God does not make junk. The earth has been around for thousands of years. Man is supposed to subdue it, not be it's servant. Over-regulations are harmful because they harm man and his ability to work and live free.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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That picture in itself, expresses the problem with conservatism....an appeal to people's barbaric killing side. Aren't animals God's creatures, and don't they have a certain dignity and aren't we to care for them and not see them all as dinner? That type of billboard panders to the lowest levels, the underbelly of our culture....so palinesque...see something God made? SHOOT IT!

Oh, Boo Hoo! Apparently you see the need to throw a fit and whine! It's humour! Get over your sanctimous self and off your high horse! :doh:




I'm sorry that you don't like humour or light-hearted fun; feeling the need to suck everyone's fun and joy out. Apparently, you woke up on the wrong side of the bed when you wrote this, eh?! :sigh:


:smoke:
 
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TheOtherHockeyMom

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For one, God did not make animals and man on an equal footing. Animals are to serve man. It doesn't seem to me that the environmentatlists seem to realize that. They seem to have turned it on it's head thinking that animals have the same rights as man (and sometimes more rights at the exspense of man.) It seems to me that the it's the very hunters that PETA detests, are the very conservationists that actually are looking out for the environment. They are the ones who have to make sure that the herds are culled of weak and sick, so that there are healthy animals who have enough grazing land, and fresh water to remain healthy. If PETA had it's way there would be overpopulation and starvation and death and disease from rotting animal corpses in the water simply because the animals are not managed properly.

As to water, how about all that rich farmland in California going without water because some environmentatist found a "snail darter" or something and to allow the people to have water would hurt the environment for the little fish. Result? 40% unemployment. Dust bowl conditions. Yep, crops gone because of the little fish. We get to look forward to a food shortage there. People die to protect the fish. I guess people don't count. (I just wish that these people would think things through. If things like this continue, there wont be any people to protect the darn fish in the first place!)

Like the air regulations. I swear the environmentalists don't think. Where I live people cannot burn outside trash. However, accross the street it's okay for people to burn trash! Err--I guess they don't realize that the wind blows the pollution across the street! IOW it only makes neighbors bring their things to burn accross the street--nothing more.

Reminds me of that nonsense with the air quality and those "cap and trade" regulations of the U.S. We are supposed to live under all sorts of regulations and closing coal plants (costing thousands of jobs for *people*) but it's okay if some place like China doesn't? Ever here about wind?

I surely wish that many of the environmentalists would start to realize that man is at the apex. Animals, Birds, Fish, water, Earth is there to support man, not the other way around.

And what's this thing about thinking that the earth is fragile? So fragile that if it's "looked at the wrong way" it will break. I keep wanting to send a news flash to them--God made the earth and God does not make junk. The earth has been around for thousands of years. Man is supposed to subdue it, not be it's servant. Over-regulations are harmful because they harm man and his ability to work and live free.

Sure is a lot to talk about here...
1. I would say that animal rights and environmental regulation are two different topics. There is some overlap, as current meat production and consumption contributes significantly to climate change. As far as the regulations side, I can't think of many regulations that protect animal rights, at least for animals other than those that are considered pets. There are laws that ban dogfighting, for instance, but considering the view that animals were put here for our use, I image you wouldn't support such laws.

2. The snail darter..you list some specifics there, like the protection of the fish causing 40% unemployment....so I guess I'll have to do some homework as I'm not too familiar with the case. I imagine it's an endangered species act issue, but I can't comment as I don't know too much about this.

3. The clean air stuff...now we get to the real issue of environmental regulations. You make a couple of comments about how the US shouldn't regulate emissions because other countries aren't. Then you correctly point out that the wind means we all share the same air. I don't really get this attitude, though. (kind of reminds me of talking to my sons...I often tell the oldest not to do something or other and he points out that his little brother is doing it too, then I respond with the cliched 'but you are older and know better, set a good example')

We have a term that the right likes to use a lot: American Exceptionalism. I felt a lot of that pride in country myself when we put a man on the moon. Now we are facing a climate catastrophe and I don't know why we don't have the willing spirit to tackle this problem. If we put in that kind effort, we could make a real difference, become a true global leader, divert a disaster and have the side benefit of bringing in a lot of new jobs. If we don't, then it won't be too long before it doesn't matter which country did what, in a sinking ship with no lifeboats, first class and coach passengers all drown.

4. In the end you say that the earth isn't fragile (and that it's a few thousand years old....off by a few orders of magnitude there, I would say). I think the earth is very fragile, and believing otherwise is burying your head in the sand. For the sake of my children and yours, I hope you and others will open your minds to the hard science surrounding climate change.
 
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TheOtherHockeyMom

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Oh, Boo Hoo! Apparently you see the need to throw a fit and whine! It's humour! Get over your sanctimous self and off your high horse! :doh:




I'm sorry that you don't like humour or light-hearted fun; feeling the need to suck everyone's fun and joy out. Apparently, you woke up on the wrong side of the bed when you wrote this, eh?! :sigh:


:smoke:

Liking the new sig picture, though....very cool (and not only did his famous character abstain from meat, he's a vegetarian too!)
 
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Fantine

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You are right about meat v.s. grains, Hockey Mom.

Right now, between ethanol production and the fact that 80% of American corn is used to feed livestock--while corn prices have skyrocketed and people in the Third World are starving and unable to get the food they need.

Here's the ratio:

10 pounds of corn = 1 pound of beef

4 pounds of corn = 1 pound of pork

3 pounds of corn = 1 pound of chicken

2 pounds of corn = 1 pound of catfish.
 
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MoreCoffee

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The 47% struck back!

385.jpg


'I Want To Congratulate The President,' Romney Says In 240,000th And Final Lie Of Campaign

The Onion
http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-want-to-congratulate-the-president-romney-says-i,30283/
 
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