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Fantine

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A sociopath is a person without a conscience.

I don't call radio shows, but have done some time at the microphone since I work in communications and have learned to get through without stumbles.

In my experience following my husband (whose jobs ranged from VP to director) around the country following mergers, acquisitions, etc. I would characterize many of the people who orchestrated and managed these takeovers as sociopaths, and I would certainly put Romney's comments at that fundraiser as sociopathic.

And if you really believe he's pro-life (despite his litter of test-tube grandchildren--those frozen in vaults and already living) despite his actions and speeches in Massachusetts, a liberal state, then you are pretty gullible. He will be whatever he needs to be to get the most votes.
 
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tadoflamb

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For the one who noted that Romney paid (after taking the legal deductions that reduced his tax liability to 14%, I'll have to agree, he shouldn't have put it that way. A better way to have put it was "my tax bracket was 33.3% and dividend bracket was 48.5%, but after taking that 10% that is given outright to all who file tax returns, and the various legal deductions (as are offered to all who file tax returns, it was determined by the government that I wasn't eligible to get my money back but had to pay an additional 14%--that was about 3 million dollars and on top of that I gave 16% to charity on top of my tithes.

Yep, that would be more accurate.

BTW, if you really want to see Romney's fianacial disclosures (and Ryans too) go to his website. I was surprised to see some all the way back to 1999. (Surprised because the IRS can only go back 7 years, and usually it's just 3.)

Actually, if Romney had taken all the legal deductions he was entitled to his taxable income rate would have dropped below 13%. He chose not to to stay consistent with his claims that he has never paid below that rate.
 
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tadoflamb

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Can we start by worrying about the 1% who are also part of the 47%?

That's what concerns me, the portion of that 47% who are disabled and the destitute poor. From my work with St. Vincent de Paul I've learned that this is where God is and it's these people who will suffer most for the benefit of the other 1%.
 
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Fantine

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Actually, if Romney had taken all the legal deductions he was entitled to his taxable income rate would have dropped below 13%. He chose not to to stay consistent with his claims that he has never paid below that rate.

I just wonder why, when the rest of us sent in our 2011 taxes by April 15, Romney's accountants couldn't get his together until September 21.
 
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AMDG

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I just wonder why, when the rest of us sent in our 2011 taxes by April 15, Romney's accountants couldn't get his together until September 21.

I'm surprised that you don't know. People that have salary income file on April 15 (tax day) but people who have to estimate their taxes as well (for one reason is that that they aren't able to have payroll taxes taken out or they are self-employed or they own land or have other reasons that the IRS has detemined) have to pay quarterly taxes (as well Tax Day filing) and that is often complicated with "this is owed if it is within a 2% estimate of last year's estimate (but keeping in mind actual payments and making sure that the four payments are exactly even) otherwise...". And sometimes an individual has both types of income and that is taxed under several different percentages. (Rather like Buffets famed initial tax rate of 15%, but that is on dividends that have *already* been taxed before at a different rate--he just left that part out when he claimed that his secretary has a tax rate that is higher.)

Romney said that his return was a complicated one and that he had to wait until they were completed. I assume that completed disclosures were wanted.

You know just about all our presidents were unbelievabley wealthy and there was no fuss before. Washington was wealthiest I believe, Jefferson inherited all his wealth, FDR was rich beyond measure, so was JFK.
 
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tadoflamb

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I just wonder why, when the rest of us sent in our 2011 taxes by April 15, Romney's accountants couldn't get his together until September 21.

Because it was 800 pages long. With all the tax loopholes and the complications of foriegn investments it takes a little longer than most.
 
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Fantine

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Believe it or not, I have filed estimated returns for about 5 years because when I went back to work full-time I should have been paying my husband's tax rate, not mine. The first year I went back to work full-time we owed an additional $4700, and I almost fainted.

As a matter of fact, I'd just been thinking that I needed to send in some estimated taxes.

But your "settlement day" is April 15, regardless. And if your taxes aren't done by April 15, you can file for an extension (as long as you have paid what you estimate you owe and are willing to pay interest and penalties if you haven't).

In any case, the man is "unemployed" (or so he claims) and when you have capital gains they are calculated right away, so I don't know what the big complication is.
 
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AMDG

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This is in answer to Fantine's thread.

I was pretty sure that you had said that you paid estimated taxes, so I was surprised that you didn't know.

I remember when I was self-employed with an income that varied wildly from month to month, I had to file estimate taxes and it was a royal pain--estimating what no one can estimate within 2% of the estimate of the last quarter but make sure that all were equal amounts had us dealing with the IRS all year long, not just on TAX day and here I was pretty darn poor, so I can easily figure that Romney's taxes were more complicated.

Of course his financial disclosures (and that of Ryan) are on his website if interested.
 
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tadoflamb

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So are any of you in the 47%? Any of you not pay any federal income tax?

No, but it's got me thinking, with a little more charitable giving, being more aggressive on my small business decuctions and what not, I could get my tax liability down to zero. I mean, what a tax refund other than the government agreeing that it took too much money from you in the first place and is now giving some of it back months later, no interest paid.
 
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sylverpiano

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So are any of you in the 47%? Any of you not pay any federal income tax?


I am single with no dependents. I do not have enough in the way of deductions to file a Schedule A.. You can bet your life I pay Federal income taxes......
 
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AMDG

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So are any of you in the 47%? Any of you not pay any federal income tax?

Perhaps your question should be "Any of you people ever expect an IRS refund?" or "How many of you folks end up going to H&R block or to turbo tax and try to whittle down your tax liability by taking advantage of every *legal* loop hole and discount?" That's usually how folks who don't end up paying federal income tax do it--they get it all back (and sometimes more). I know that's how my one daughter is able to be one of the 47%.


Of course there *are* a few that may not even have to file. My other daughter is most likely a member of that 47%. And my mother (before she passed) didn't even have to file according to the IRS. And since my husband was executer of my mother's estate, I know for a fact that my mother didn't.

Of course, my husband and I are part of the 53% who do pay taxes. Never even expect a refund from the IRS.

So you don't believe government statistics that say that 47% don't pay *federal* taxes, but you do believe it when Obama tells us that the reason the Muslims attacked our embassys and killed our Ambassador was because of a ridiculous movie trailer that was out for months with not a peep.
 
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Needing_Grace

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Perhaps your question should be "Any of you people ever expect an IRS refund?" or "How many of you folks end up going to H&R block or to turbo tax and try to whittle down your tax liability by taking advantage of every *legal* loop hole and discount?" That's usually how folks who don't end up paying federal income tax do it--they get it all back (and sometimes more). I know that's how my one daughter is able to be one of the 47%.


Of course there *are* a few that may not even have to file. My other daughter is most likely a member of that 47%. And my mother (before she passed) didn't even have to file according to the IRS. And since my husband was executer of my mother's estate, I know for a fact that my mother didn't.

So you don't believe government statistics that say that 47% don't pay taxes, but you do believe it when Obama tells us that the reason the Muslims attacked our embassys and killed our Ambassador was because of a ridiculous movie trailer that was out for months with not a peep.

I expect a refund every single year because I claim exactly what I am supposed to claim and they always withhold too much from my check to the tune of about $500.00 each year. One year when I was going to college, I got to write off all of my tuition for the year, which brought it up to about a thousand. I still paid a few thousand in federal income taxes, which is my responsibility as a member of the society in which I live.

Oh, I work for a state agency that received 50% of its fund from the Feds.

Which am I, 47% or 53%, cause I just say I'm an American.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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Definitely thought Reagan was one of the most gifted orators amongst our presidents in the modern era or contemporary age. Then again my other favourite presidents were Calvin Coolidge, Grover Cleveland, and Dwight Eisenhower. Other gents who weren't presidents but are my favourite persons in politics are Pat Buchanan, Barry Goldwater, Robert Casey Senior, Ron Paul, Rick Santorum, Larry McDonald.
 
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Fantine

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H&R Block certainly isn't the best way to do income taxes--especially if you accept a refund anticipation loan. People pay H&R Block a few hundred dollars to get their refund (often an earned income tax credit) a week or two early.

I taught two of my friends who were single moms how to do their taxes online for free, and taught them how they could get their refunds deposited in their bank accounts in a few days.

H&R Block can't invent deductions that don't exist.

And there is nothing wrong about being honest about deductions to which you are entitled.

I know a fundamentalist who doesn't deduct charitable contributions on his taxes because he said that it's not a tithe if you save some of it in taxes.

And I said to him, "Well, if you give 10% and save 2.5% of that in deductions, why don't you take the deduction and give it back to the Church?"

It seemed like a ridiculously legalistic way to look at it when it actually enabled him to help his Church more.
 
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I agree with ya, and disagree, Josh. Obama is an amazing speaker, no matter what Warrior says. He's incredible. I think he's nowhere near the stunning and powerful speaker that President Clinton is, but he's way high up there on the list.

But where Romney is concerned, it's not that he sticks his foot in his mouth, dude, he's actually THE FIRST HONEST Republican we've seen in a long time. He's actually admitting their oligarchy-driven richest 1% overseer agenda in an honest way. We haven't heard a Republican be quite that honest and it rattles us! In the past, you don't hear Republicans admit they want to destroy Medicare, Social Security, bust up unions, pollute the environment, ignore almost half the population of deadbeat Americans who don't pay taxes and who feel entitled to everything, want to go to war at the drop of a hat, who want to protect the richest elite while outsourcing and firing the middle class willy-nilly. You've never heard such honesty before. Neither have I.

The Republicans have worn the American flag on their sleeves for years touting their supposed love for freedom, their concern over the elderly and the weakest among us, and how they want to keep us all safe and protected by God and the religious values of the Bible. What people are waking up to is that they're no such thing. They're a bunch of greedy overseers with their big pharma, big insurance, Wall Street, CEO's, Koch Brothers, anti-worker, pro-polluter, war-mongering party ways. They could care less about the weakest among us out of the womb. They shoot, ask questions later. They outsource the job of the bluecollar guy who is bamboozled into voting for them. They punish anyone who collectively bargains, and could care less if the food you eat or the air you breathe is toxic as long as they make a buck.

Think of any greedy, nasty, cumudgeony old tycoon business man in all the movies you've ever seen...the bad guy....and you can bet your bottom dollar (what's left its value) that he's a Republican. Remember the greedy country club guys stealing all the land out of under the Goonie kids in the Goonies? They were Republicans! LOL....Think of Wall Street "Greed....IS GOOD!" and you can pin an elephant symbol to 'em. Ebeneezer Scrooge, if he could get an American passport before he changed his greedy ways, would be a Tea Partier. Tony Stark, in Iron Man, was a greedy Republican style CEO, until he realized the death his company was causing and changed his ways to use the company for other things! LOL....The Emperor in Star Wars created a kind of patriot act and Darth Vader said, "you're either with me, or you're my enemy!" that sounds familiar! I'm telling ya! LOL



I think Obama is one of the most gifted speech givers that's ever held the presidency, at least in my life time.(granted I haven't watched *that* many presidents give speeches)

Romney on the other hand seems to always be putting his foot in his mouth, by saying things so off beat that sometimes even republicans won't back it. He's essentially telling a massive part of the population to not vote for him, even worse he's telling an even bigger part of the population that he's going to tax them and give tax breaks to the rich, Lol...and of course it doesn't end there, he wants to repeal and ruin various things that actually benefit the middle and lower classes. I guess he's going for a mind warp, reverse psychology tactic. Telling people how bad he's going to be and to not vote for them so that they'll vote for him anyway. :D
 
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That picture in itself, expresses the problem with conservatism....an appeal to people's barbaric killing side. Aren't animals God's creatures, and don't they have a certain dignity and aren't we to care for them and not see them all as dinner? That type of billboard panders to the lowest levels, the underbelly of our culture....so palinesque...see something God made? SHOOT IT!

Definitely thought Reagan was one of the most gifted orators amongst our presidents in the modern era or contemporary age. Then again my other favourite presidents were Calvin Coolidge, Grover Cleveland, and Dwight Eisenhower. Other gents who weren't presidents but are my favourite persons in politics are Pat Buchanan, Barry Goldwater, Robert Casey Senior, Ron Paul, Rick Santorum, Larry McDonald.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Definitely thought Reagan was one of the most gifted orators amongst our presidents in the modern era or contemporary age. Then again my other favourite presidents were Calvin Coolidge, Grover Cleveland, and Dwight Eisenhower. Other gents who weren't presidents but are my favourite persons in politics are Pat Buchanan, Barry Goldwater, Robert Casey Senior, Ron Paul, Rick Santorum, Larry McDonald.
I thought Bill Clinton was much better than Ronald Regan.
 
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