Having trouble with the whole sex before marriage thing

hedrick said:

The rules of CF don't permit discussion of this topic. Sorry.

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Fair enough.

At some point it's not worth continuing to discuss something with someone whose basic starting point is so far from mine. But two points do seem worth making.

Alive_Again said:

True, the liberal view (in the world) is that if you love each other, shacking up and having sex isn't so bad. It's what the media lays on us and our children. But God seems to have a different view of things, if you look at the Bible and the law of God in her heart. You can be liberal and not acknowledge it, but it is there just the same.

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That is pretty obviously not the question. This is effectively a personal attack, as you are accusing me of advocating things I have specifically said I am not advocating. At some point I'd be happy to talk about the ethics of sex outside of marriage, but since CF will only permit one side, it wouldn't be a very useful discussion. I will say however that I do not advocate sex outside of a covenanted relationship.

But the question is not whether to engage in free love, but whether enough of a covenant exists in this situation that it should be treated as effectively like a marriage. I'm not sure whether I'm unclear or you aren't listening. From what the OP has said, I believe there is a de facto covenant.

You are asserting that nothing other than an official Christian marriage can be a covenant. I believe you are being overly legalistic, and that the Bible itself (particularly the OT) is a more flexible. That's why many states have the concept of a common law marriage. The issue here is not whether we adopt the media's concept of sex, but whether there are grays between marriage complete with license and official ceremony and not married. Liberals tend to take account of gray in ethical analysis. Conservatives tend not to. To me this is a straightforward question of legalism.

But this is not just an abstract discussion. In this case your analysis will create exactly the damage that Christ's prohibition of divorce was intended to prevent. Particularly for the child.

I believe your advice not to marry is also in violation of 1 Cor 7:12 ff. Not technically, but in intent.

Without this covenant, their is no marriage. You made an inference that maybe the husband was not wrong to want to have sex.

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I assume this is a typo. If he is actually a husband, the principle is clear enough in 1 Cor 7.

A last look at this (for me anyway)...

You suggest that their being together indicates a committment, and I only wish to demonstrate the difference between what seems to be a "committment" and a "covenant". The world has a "common" law thing, and God has a "covenant". This is not a personal attack to point this out. You are entitled to your own opinion, but Biblically, it is different.

Whether you have the paper or not, living with someone for 3 years and having a child seems to me to indicate a commitment. I'm not so sure your partner is wrong to expect you to continue. Paul tells married people that it is wrong to deny their partner.

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So your comment in the light of scripture seems to shift the wrongdoing from sex outside of marriage (fornication) to being wrong to deny their partner. I see your intent, and I understand the basis that you're coming from. I just pointed out the difference between that view and scripture. It's up to you to perceive the value of this (and if correct, prosper for fearing God in this matter).

...I've bee. With the same man for over 3 years, and we now have a child. However I have recently been baptized and no longer want to ha e sex until I am married.

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This was wisdom to see things God's way (according to the scriptures, if you acknowledge that as a source of light). It's not condemning anyone, but it is wisdom to fear the Lord in this matter and to seek God about where to go from there in the fear of God (which she is doing).

So to be sure, this is not a personal attack, but if one does consider scripture, then there is a difference. As a "liberal" one can make their own choice. Fair enough?

It is so easy to take scripture out of context. I believe that is why we have so many names for followers. When in the end it is written quite clear. I just want to say thank you all for your out put. I have left my situation to get on a Better track with the Lord. Also, I go by my natural instinct with everything. That's what led me to being a believer. But to stay would be wrong. Especially considering I was putting him before God by giving into to his sexual desires.(and mine at times, he is not only at fault.) However, I ask for prayers to get through this crisis. Because it is very hard raising a child on your own, and going from one way of living to another so fast.

Awesome choice! God will reward your faithfulness to Him. Just keep acknowledging Him and you will be a testimony to others.