What makes the USA a Christian nation?

pennmark · Jun 11, 2012

tulc said:
No more true now than when that other guy posted it. According to the Bible the Revolutionary War was a sin:

God sometimes uses rebellion to punish the powerful for sins they have committed. Take the case of Israel rebelling against Solomon's son Rehoboam in 1 Kings 12:1-24. Solomon was guilty of allowing foriegn gods into Israel, so the LORD punished him by reducing his son's inheritance through a rebellion. "Solomon did evil in the eyes of the LORD; he did not follow the LORD completely, as David his father had done." - 1 Kings 11:6.

The Israelites told Rehoboam that they would support him if he lessened the yoke placed upon them by Solomon. Rehoboam answered harshly: "My father made your yoke heavy; I will make it even heavier. My father scourged you with whips; I will scourge you with scorpions." -1 Kings 12:14. The Israelites responded by making Jeroboam their king. Rehoboam attempted raising an army to crush Jeroboam, but were told by the Lord "Do not go up to fight against your brothers, the Israelites. Go home, everyone of you, for this is my doing." What we should take from this story is that God does not force people to live under tyranny.

SmellsLikeCurlyFries · Jun 11, 2012

The U.S. is a Christian nation ONLY in that a vast majority of the population of this country is Christian. As much as pennmark would like everyone to believe that a single line = Christian nation, the context of both the DoI AND the Constitution makes it abundantly clear that it is a nation for all people, regardless of their religion, and that it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for the government to adopt a state religion or pass laws favoring any one specific religion.

pennmark · Jun 11, 2012

SmellsLikeCurlyFries said:
it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for the government to adopt a state religion

Constitution doesn't say that. The First Amendment says: "Congress shall pass no laws respecting an establishment of religion".

SmellsLikeCurlyFries · Jun 11, 2012

pennmark said:
Constitution doesn't say that. The First Amendment says: "Congress shall pass no laws respecting an establishment of religion".

What, your "knowledge" of 18th century verbiage doesn't extend to "respecting?" How unfortunate.

pennmark · Jun 11, 2012

SmellsLikeCurlyFries said:
What, your "knowledge" of 18th century verbiage doesn't extend to "respecting?" How unfortunate.

"Congress shall... " The pre-existing established religion still stands.

tulc · Jun 11, 2012

pennmark said:
God sometimes uses rebellion to punish the powerful for sins they have committed. Take the case of Israel rebelling against Solomon's son Rehoboam in 1 Kings 12:1-24. Solomon was guilty of allowing foriegn gods into Israel, so the LORD punished him by reducing his son's inheritance through a rebellion. "Solomon did evil in the eyes of the LORD; he did not follow the LORD completely, as David his father had done." - 1 Kings 11:6.

The Israelites told Rehoboam that they would support him if he lessened the yoke placed upon them by Solomon. Rehoboam answered harshly: "My father made your yoke heavy; I will make it even heavier. My father scourged you with whips; I will scourge you with scorpions." -1 Kings 12:14. The Israelites responded by making Jeroboam their king. Rehoboam attempted raising an army to crush Jeroboam, but were told by the Lord "Do not go up to fight against your brothers, the Israelites. Go home, everyone of you, for this is my doing." What we should take from this story is that God does not force people to live under tyranny.

...so why didn't Jesus tell the early Church to create armies and rebel against Rome? Seems like the people who were, actually killing Christians would be the very people He'd want Christians to fight and kill. I might also point out that the Scripture you used says we're NOT supposed to fight against our brothers, because say what you will, the English troops they were fighting were Christians, just as much as the colonists were. :sorry:

tulc(thanks you for another Scripture in support of his point) :wave:

BleedingHeart · Jun 11, 2012

pennmark said:
Constitution doesn't say that. The First Amendment says: "Congress shall pass no laws respecting an establishment of religion".

And you don't think adopting an official government religion that people may or may not be forced to follow under threat of ridicule, discrimination, persecution and/or death would count as respecting an establishment? WOW.

SmellsLikeCurlyFries · Jun 11, 2012

pennmark said:
"Congress shall... " The pre-existing established religion still stands.

There was no pre-existing established religion though, is the point. And to say there was is to be completely ignorant of the whole reason they left England in the first place: to get away from an established state religion.

BleedingHeart · Jun 11, 2012

pennmark said:
"Congress shall... " The pre-existing established religion still stands.

Illuminaughty · Jun 11, 2012

"Congress shall... " The pre-existing established religion still stands.

In that case Benjamin Franklin and Tomas Paine established their religion (deism) before the constitution was ratified so that's the one we are stuck with here. We all have to join the Hellfire club too.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

Check out the quotes from some of the Founding Fathers here. Very unorthodox and heretical.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Thomas Jefferson[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]

Grizzly · Jun 11, 2012

So what would happen if Congress passed a law respecting Christianity as the established religion of America?

"Congress shall pass no laws respecting an establishment of religion"

TLK Valentine · Jun 11, 2012

BleedingHeart said:
And you don't think adopting an official government religion that people may or may not be forced to follow under threat of ridicule, discrimination, persecution and/or death would count as respecting an establishment? WOW.

Perhaps he does, but do you expect the ones doing the ridiculing, discriminating, and persecuting to complain? I certainly don't.

SmellsLikeCurlyFries · Jun 11, 2012

Grizzly said:
So what would happen if Congress passed a law respecting Christianity as the established religion of America?

"Congress shall pass no laws respecting an establishment of religion"

Riots, which the Christian majority would easily put down with "strategic" drone strikes that would likely kill a whole lot of innocent people, many of them other Christians.

...huh. That's odd. I'm getting a deja vu feeling here, like the above sounds REALLY familiar...

BleedingHeart · Jun 11, 2012

SmellsLikeCurlyFries said:
Riots, which the Christian majority would easily put down with "strategic" drone strikes that would likely kill a whole lot of innocent people, many of them other Christians.

...huh. That's odd. I'm getting a deja vu feeling here, like the above sounds REALLY familiar...

I don't know if they would be allowed on US soil, but there's no doubt in my mind that many conservative Christians would "take care" of dissenters trying to take away their religious freedom to treat everyone else like garbage.

SmellsLikeCurlyFries · Jun 11, 2012

BleedingHeart said:
I don't know if they would be allowed on US soil, but there's no doubt in my mind that many conservative Christians would "take care" of dissenters trying to take away their religious freedom to treat everyone else like garbage.

Well, look no further than how they not only approve of but CHEER the murder of innocent children through their wars and drone strikes.

Bdiddy · Jun 25, 2012

pennsylmark said:
In order for a government's laws to be "legal", that government must believe in the legality of it's own existence. Otherwise the government is illegal, and everything it does is illegal.

Sounds logical to me. I mean, how could a government pass legal acts for its citizenry if it does not recognize the legality of it's own being?

tulc · Jun 25, 2012

Bdiddy said:
Sounds logical to me. I mean, how could a government pass legal acts for its citizenry if it does not recognize the legality of it's own being?

Welcome to CF! :wave:

The problem is? No government in history has ever thought it was illegitimate no matter how much it was, they always come up with some reason they need to be in power. :sorry:

tulc(plus, America isn't/has never been a "Christian Nation")

BleedingHeart · Jun 25, 2012

Bdiddy said:
Sounds logical to me. I mean, how could a government pass legal acts for its citizenry if it does not recognize the legality of it's own being?

Gee Pennsmark...your own logic sounds logical to you? Do go on (while I report this to the mods, that is).

Grizzly · Jun 25, 2012

BleedingHeart said:
Gee Pennsmark...your own logic sounds logical to you? Do go on (while I report this to the mods, that is).

9 out of 10 sock puppets agree!

Bdiddy · Jun 25, 2012

tulc said:
Welcome to CF!
The problem is? No government in history has ever thought it was illegitimate no matter how much it was, they always come up with some reason they need to be in power.

The USA's reasons are stipulated in the Declaration of Independence.

What makes the USA a Christian nation?

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