What Commandment did God say to; "Remember", that the world wants to forget? (6)

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Lysimachus

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The Three Principles of the Covenants
in relation to the Sabbath
by Lysimachus

It is often argued that Christ's allusion to the Sabbath in Matthew 24:20 was in warning the Christians to pray that their flight not be on that day simply because the gates of Jerusalem would be closed on the Sabbath, and this would make it impossible for them to flee the city.

However, we will soon discover that this argument falls flat on its face in light of the fact that the passage in question was specifically targeted to all those who "dwell in Judea", not just Jerusalem (See verse 16). Was there a wall around the entire land of Judea? This was not so. It is mere conjecture to conclude that Christ mentioned the Sabbath simply because the gates were locked in Jerusalem. If this were so, let us beg the question as to why our Saviour mentions only the Sabbath, and not any other Jewish holidays such as the Day of Atonement, the Passover, the Feast of Tabernacles, the Feast of Trumpets, or any other Jewish holiday that was recognized as "a sabbath"? Obviously Jesus recognized that "the" Sabbath day would still be important after the cross. The clear fact alone that the Syrian Churches established in the east were still keeping Sabbath even well into the 4th century is testimony enough of the fact that the importance of the sanctity of the Sabbath was passed down to them, and a number of their leaders fought hard against the Sunday heresy—which we should all know came from Mithraism. Not Christianity.

Further yet, I will quote a dedicated Christian author named Christian Edwardson who succinctly put the nail in the coffin regarding this subject:

While He taught His disciples that such necessary work as eating, healing the sick, or lifting a sheep out of a pit, was lawful to do on the Sabbath days (Matthew 12: 1-12), He thereby acknowledged the claims of the Sabbath law, which makes ordinary work not lawful on that day. It was "the Spirit of Christ" in the prophets (1 Peter 1: 10, 11) who instructed His people to "bear no burden on the Sabbath day" through the gates of Jerusalem (Jeremiah 17:21, 22, 27). And when foretelling the destruction of that city (which took place A. D. 70) Jesus warned His disciples saying: "But pray ye that your flight be not . . . on the Sabbath day." Matthew 24: 20. This warning was not, as some would have us believe, on account of the gates being closed on that day, for in the same connection Jesus says: "Let him which is on the housetop not come down." V. 17. But how could he flee without coming down from the housetop? There can be only one answer. There was an elevated road from one flat roof to another on which they could flee till they reached the wall, where they could be let down. (See Acts 9: 25; Joshua 2: 15; 1 Samuel 19: 12) In such a case closed gates could hardly come into consideration. This instruction shows Christ's sacred regard for the Sabbath, and His anxiety that His church should keep it properly. (Christian Edwardson, Facts of Faith, p. 80) emphasis mine​

Added to this is that Jesus is clearly urging His followers to pray so that they won't be in a position of being unable to keep the commandment of God regarding the Sabbath. Jesus' attitude and behavior throughout the Gospels shows that He obeyed God's commandments and commanded His followers to obey God's commandments. This is precisely what Paul is talking about in 1 Cor. 9: 21 when he speaks of his keeping the law of God according to the teachings of Christ.

"To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law." (1 Corinthians 9:21)​

What law is Paul referring to when he says that he realizes that he needs to obey "the law of God"? Clearly Paul is not carelessly alluding to words that only Christ spoke, but to God's Moral Law that was written in stone for which Christ came to establish, magnify, and elaborate (See Isaiah 42:21; Matt. 5:17-22; 19:17; 22:35-40; Romans 3:31).

In light of all this, I would like to provide what I consider the most irrefutable evidence of the binding nature of the Sabbath in the New Testament era:


We will now focus on Luke 23:56. The binding nature of the Sabbath commandment is evident in Luke’s writing concerning the Sabbath day which came about the next day after Christ's death on Friday:

“And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day ACCORDING to the commandment (Luke 23:56)​

Now please pay careful attention to the following:

First of all, the Epistle Luke emphasized that the keeping of the Sabbath by His followers was “according to the commandment” AFTER the New Covenant had been ratified at the cross on Friday. Scripture teaches that the New Covenant was ratified “by the shedding of blood” (Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24), not the resurrection. We also find that Hebrews 9:16, 17 and 22 establishes unequivocally, and unapologetically, that a covenant is in force ONLY AFTER the death of the testator. Not after the resurrection.

Secondly, Paul emphasized that once a covenant is in place, no man can take away or add to the covenant:

"To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified." (Galatians 3:15, ESV)​

Thirdly, Luke wrote about these women of Galilee as "resting the Sabbath according to the commandment” approximately 35 years after the event happened! So even Luke, the only Gentile gospel writer, recognized that the keeping of the Sabbath was indeed “according to the commandment” AFTER the New Covenant was ratified at the cross. If the Sabbath had been disannulled at the Cross, Luke would not have recognized it as being “according to the commandment”, since this day was after Christ had already shed His blood.

Fourthly, Paul said “nothing could be added” once the New Covenant was in place. Catholic and Evangelical Christians somehow fail to realize that Sunday came three days after the shedding of blood. So why are they “adding” significance to this day? Without question, Sunday came three days too late.

To summarize, these principles are in line with the three principles of the covenant which are as follows:

(1) Before either of the two Covenants is put into effect, the conditions of the Covenants are made known (Ex. 24:1-8 );

(2) Wherever there is a Covenant, the Covenant is sealed by the blood of the Testator (Heb. 9:16-22);

(3) Once the Covenant has been sealed by the blood, nothing can be added or subtracted from the covenant (Psalms 89:34; Gal. 3:15)

(Borrowed from The Seal of God & The Mark of the Beast by D.S. Farris, page 14)​

I should not fail to mention that Christ was very clear when He instituted the Lord's Supper prior to His death (Luke 22:19; 1 Cor 11:24,25). But He did not even so much as "HINT" at instituting any Sunday sacredness or celebration in honor of His resurrection. We celebrate His resurrection through the sacrament of Baptism (See Romans 6:3-6; 1 Peter 3:20).

The same author above who lists the three principles of the covenants continues to mention that preceding the inauguration of the New Covenant, the Lord Himself came and applied the three principles. Jesus made known in the synoptic gospels what His New Covenant was to be through both word and deed. When Jesus went to the cross, He sealed the New Covenant with His blood. Whatever is—or is not—within the framework of the New Covenant had to be explained or done by Jesus before He died on the cross. Let us raise the question: Did Christ—through deed—keep Sunday before he went to the cross? No! Luke 4:16 says, “So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.” We agree with Canon Knox Little where he emphasizes: “It is certain that our Lord when on earth did observe Saturday, and did not observe Sunday. If they are consistent, as I have said, they must keep Saturday, not Sunday, as the day of rest” (Sacerdotalism (1894 ed.), 71, 89).

In closing, we shall conclude with the following question: Did Christ—by word—mention Sunday or that the Sabbath would change? No! Christ never mentioned a new holy day. In fact Christ Himself explained in Matthew 5:17 – 19 that He did not come to do away with the Law; not a jot or iota would pass away in the law.

Therefore, through the voice of God's Word in the Holy Scriptures, we can safely conclude that this argument that the Sabbath and the Ten Commandments were vanquished and abolished as "part" of the Old Covenant and its ceremonial system is supported by no Biblical foundation whatsoever.

May we allow the Word of Living Truth to make what it will of us!

~ Lysimachus
 
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squint

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Most of them are probably the so-called "pew warmers" anyway

images

Love that sign.

I like to say 'pick a law, any law' and the thought to break same should instantly come to mind. That's how the presence of sin works. Is there a problem with the law? No. It's quite effective to prove it's point.

I learned that there is 'no excuse' for me. I have sin. God loves me anyway. You too!

When we pinpoint 'lawlessness' to demonic influence we see 'who' the law is against. That working in anyone and everyone will never be legal, nor is that even possible.

BUT there is LOVE. There is no law that can instill LOVE. It comes pre-built into our package. And there is NO LAW against LOVE, nor can there be.

I am rather fond of the LAW, but I do not see it as most portray. Love will show a person much more interesting things therein than just showing up in church on Saturday. The SABBATH points to our ultimate time of REST when we will no longer have to contend with the working of LAWLESSNESS. That is the 'real and genuine' Sabbath that we are to look forward to with our HOPE in that eventuality.

To use Sabbath Law to condemn other believers and to justify ourselves is quite a putrid action from my seat.

I hate the seat of hypocrisy.

s
 
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Lysimachus

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There should be no question that the LAW stands secure and true.

There also should be no question that it proves the presence of indwelling sin in all of us, which we do not dodge by showing up in a pew on Saturday.

s

Going to church and sitting on a pew is not what makes keeping the Sabbath Holy.

But to start willfully working on Sabbath, such as scrubbing the toilets, or cleaning your house windows, or vacuuming, or taking or making business calls, or buying food or selling, all this is SIN. And those who willfully do these things when they are avoidable, and decide to never change till they day they die, will burn in the Lake of Fire (if they do not change before then). It is a violation and transgression of God's largest commandment, and the one that is in the CENTER of all 10 commandments.

While we do not keep the law perfectly, God expects us to do our best. There are exceptions of course, and God understands (Christ gave room for this by plucking ears of corn with the disciples and eating because they were hungry--and Christ used David eating the bread in the sanctuary which was unlawful as an excuse). God is not going to have a hissy-fit, for example, if you spill some milk and need to clean it up on Sabbath, or, if you ran out of gas because you failed to fill up before, or because you have to buy some food because you have nothing to eat. God understands. God is a reasonable God.

But, when God sees that over and over again you purposely avoid taking care of these things before Sabbath, because you show no regard for His Sabbath, and then on Sabbath decide do to all those things, God will hold you accountable in the judgment for not regarding the time which He sanctified. It is SACRED and SANCTIFIED time. Every moment, the holiness is present in that moment. It is HOLY sacred time, from sunset to sunset. When you WILLFULLY go out of your way to violate God's law by breaking this time, God takes it seriously. Because it reveals that there is indwelling sin in us.

Breaking the Sabbath on a continual basis reveals that there is other sins in the life.

Why? Because the Sabbath is a SIGN that the Lord sanctifies us.
 
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Lysimachus

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The issue is not a day seekertruth72, the issue is the heart.

Beware that the Sabbath to you is not appearing as "insignificant" as the fruit on the tree did to Eve. God used the fruit as a test, and Eve could not fathom the thought that God would make such a deal of just having a little taste of a piece of fruit. Besides, it was nothing "immoral", right? Likewise, God is using the Sabbath, a "seemingly insignificant" thing, as a test for God's people in the last days. It reveals where their hearts are truly at, and whether they really mean business about serving Him with all their heart.
 
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squint

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Going to church and sitting on a pew is not what makes keeping the Sabbath Holy.

I have no personal delusions about my 'holiness.' The presence of indwelling sin will never be holy, nor is that even possible. The fact of this matter, the fact of the presence of indwelling SIN rules out 'all' possibilities of being 'legal' or being in legal compliance.

I find no problems in being honest about this fact. Do you?

But to start willfully working on Sabbath, such as scrubbing the toilets, or cleaning your house windows, or vacuuming, or taking or making business calls, or buying food or selling, all this is SIN. And those who willfully do these things when they are avoidable, and decide to never change till they day they die, will burn in the Lake of Fire (if they do not change before then). It is a violation and transgression of God's largest commandment, and the one that is in the CENTER of all 10 commandments.

I'll one up you on 'compliance' to LAW and state that the mere thought of breaking any LAW is A SIN.

Please feel free to start a discussion of LAW using this fact and we can see who is TRUTHFUL under the LAW and who is pulling their own LEG.

While we do not keep the law perfectly,

Thank you. I'll leave you with this. The technical requirement of the LAW is PERFECTION. You are welcome to continue to miss both the target and the point.

s
 
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seekertruth72

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Love that sign.

I like to say 'pick a law, any law' and the thought to break same should instantly come to mind. That's how the presence of sin works. Is there a problem with the law? No. It's quite effective to prove it's point.

I learned that there is 'no excuse' for me. I have sin. God loves me anyway. You too!

When we pinpoint 'lawlessness' to demonic influence we see 'who' the law is against. That working in anyone and everyone will never be legal, nor is that even possible.

BUT there is LOVE. There is no law that can instill LOVE. It comes pre-built into our package. And there is NO LAW against LOVE, nor can there be.

I am rather fond of the LAW, but I do not see it as most portray. Love will show a person much more interesting things therein than just showing up in church on Saturday. The SABBATH points to our ultimate time of REST when we will no longer have to contend with the working of LAWLESSNESS. That is the 'real and genuine' Sabbath that we are to look forward to with our HOPE in that eventuality.

To use Sabbath Law to condemn other believers and to justify ourselves is quite a putrid action from my seat.

I hate the seat of hypocrisy.

s


I don't pick and choose laws, i mind the things of the Spirit and put off the things of the flesh, i don't see Sabbath commaded in the ordinances paul gave us, and i don't see failing to observe Sabbath as pertaining to the flesh in any way unless a man thinks he must observe it, we must abstain from the flesh because they war against the Spirit and are against sound doctrine and Gods will, if a man thinks He must observe it then He should because anything not of faith is sin, if a man wants to observe to glorify God then good. But is it a priority of the Gospel? I dont see it. I see the priority being abstaining from works of the flesh and seeking the good things of the Spirit. I will continue in those things and not allow debate, law pushing or extreme anti law doctrine or anything else to cause me to stumble, i have liberty, and i will use it to be a child of God, forsaking my flesh and submitting to Gods will as the apostles teach it.

1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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seekertruth72

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The issue is not a day seekertruth72, the issue is the heart.

I agree, it should be our hearts desire to obey God, and his ordinances should not be grievous to us. If they are then we should pray in humility to God, weeping and mourning, asking for His help, and we should do that until God help us, no matter how long it takes, that's true faith and endurance.

If we do then God will not forsake us, he does not despise a broken and contrite heart, his mercy is great upon them that fear him, he is a shield and strength to them.

And again all we must do is obey the ordinances as Paul teaches them.



Psa_34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Psa_51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.



Psa_145:19 He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.

Psa_147:11 The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.

Psa_115:11 Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.

Pro_9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Pro_14:26 In the fear of the LORD is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge.

Pro_14:27 The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death

Pro 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
Pro_2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

Mat_7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


Pro_3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
 
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Lysimachus

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Thank you. I'll leave you with this. The technical requirement of the LAW is PERFECTION. You are welcome to continue to miss both the target and the point.

Which is why Christ's righteousness covers where we fail. But God expects us to exert our effort and keep the law. Once He sees we are doing our best, it reveals where our heart is at. That we truly love God, and want to keep His commandments, despite our shortcomings.

Revelation clearly teaches that those who are going to be partaking of the tree of life will be those who "DO His commandments", not just "talk" about them.

I find it interesting how people say we can't keep the law perfectly, so therefore, we shouldn't even try. But then they go on to say that the only law Jesus was talking about were the "law's of Christ", not the Ten Commandments.

Wait a minute!

Wouldn't doing Jesus's laws also be "compliance based"?

So why are we trying to follow Jesus' laws, and that's not compliance based, but trying to follow only the Ten Commandments is? That makes no sense.

Under these types of rules, it doesn't matter whether one is trying to follow Jesus' teachings (or the teachings of the Apostles), or the Ten Commandments, either way, it's STILL "compliance based" based on these types of rules.

The fact is, what we do is the outward evidence of our faith.

If the heart is right, a natural result will be to obey God in all that He asks. And this includes keeping all 10 commandments.

Willful violation of God's requirements results in no more sacrifice for our sins (see Hebrews 10:26). Sin to us is when we avoid doing what we know to be right (see James 4:17).

When you willfully and CONSISTENTLY break a commandment, Jesus is not going to save you. He will say, "I never knew you".

squint, be careful that you are not neglecting Peter's warning about Paul's letters.

"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position." (1 Peter 3:15-17)​

May we not take these warnings lightly.
 
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squint

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I don't pick and choose laws, i mind the things of the Spirit and put off the things of the flesh, i don't see Sabbath commaded in the ordinances paul gave us, and i don't see failing to observe Sabbath as pertaining to the flesh in any way unless a man thinks he must observe it, we must abstain from the flesh because they war against the Spirit and are against sound doctrine and Gods will, if a man thinks He must observe it then He should because anything not of faith is sin, if a man wants to observe to glorify God then good.

Paul summed up the entirety of any commands in Romans 13:8-10, advises us how any command is to be understood AND FOLLOWED to the TEE. It's quite simple. Why we twist it around from that is understandable only if one can not read.
But is it a priority of the Gospel? I dont see it.

Every jot and tittle of the LAW stands fully secure and fully applicable. Just have to put on the correct set of glasses to view and understand same. I would simply refer again to Paul's statments of Romans 13:8-10 wherein 'any command' is summed up, simplified and COMMANDED to be followed by 'believers.' Trying to redirect the Law any other way will only result in being against Paul's statements therein.

There is exactly ZERO reason to see the entirety of the Law any differently than Romans 13:8-10. Jesus saw THE LAW in exactly the same way.

The law in this way is what we LIVE IN constantly. Not something we put on on Saturday or Sunday morning.

But there are other aspects of the law. The other aspect is that the presence of indwelling sin can't see the LAW in this way. The fact is that the presence of SIN will also come to the fore when exposed to LAW.

Therein resides the struggle with all law and understandings.

It is no wonder it's contended and disputed.

s
 
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seekertruth72

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Paul summed up the entirety of any commands in Romans 13:8-10, advises us how any command is to be understood AND FOLLOWED to the TEE. It's quite simple. Why we twist it around from that is understandable only if one can not read.


Every jot and tittle of the LAW stands fully secure and fully applicable. Just have to put on the correct set of glasses to view and understand same. I would simply refer again to Paul's statments of Romans 13:8-10 wherein 'any command' is summed up, simplified and COMMANDED to be followed by 'believers.' Trying to redirect the Law any other way will only result in being against Paul's statements therein.

There is exactly ZERO reason to see the entirety of the Law any differently than Romans 13:8-10. Jesus saw THE LAW in exactly the same way.

The law in this way is what we LIVE IN constantly. Not something we put on on Saturday or Sunday morning.

But there are other aspects of the law. The other aspect is that the presence of indwelling sin can't see the LAW in this way. The fact is that the presence of SIN will also come to the fore when exposed to LAW.

Therein resides the struggle with all law and understandings.

It is no wonder it's contended and disputed.

s

Fleeing works of the flesh and seeking to walk in the Spirit has nothing to do with observing Holy days including Sabbath.

Mat_28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1Co_11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.



Pro 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
Pro_2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

Mat_7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


Pro_3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
 
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seekertruth72

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Every jot and tittle of the LAW stands fully secure and fully applicable. Just have to put on the correct set of glasses to view and understand same. I would simply refer again to Paul's statments of Romans 13:8-10 wherein 'any command' is summed up, simplified and COMMANDED to be followed by 'believers.' Trying to redirect the Law any other way will only result in being against Paul's statements therein.

There is exactly ZERO reason to see the entirety of the Law any differently than Romans 13:8-10. Jesus saw THE LAW in exactly the same way.

Every Jot and tittle of the law doesn't stand fully secure, no more circumcision, no more sin offerings, no more stoning penalties, and as far as i see no more sabbath, at least no more obligation on the gentiles part anyway, it wasn't given to them..

Maybe you mean something else squint, im not sure but this is my understanding.
 
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Going to church and sitting on a pew is not what makes keeping the Sabbath Holy.

But to start willfully working on Sabbath, such as scrubbing the toilets, or cleaning your house windows, or vacuuming, or taking or making business calls, or buying food or selling, all this is SIN. And those who willfully do these things when they are avoidable, and decide to never change till they day they die, will burn in the Lake of Fire (if they do not change before then). It is a violation and transgression of God's largest commandment, and the one that is in the CENTER of all 10 commandments.

While we do not keep the law perfectly, God expects us to do our best. There are exceptions of course, and God understands (Christ gave room for this by plucking ears of corn with the disciples and eating because they were hungry--and Christ used David eating the bread in the sanctuary which was unlawful as an excuse). God is not going to have a hissy-fit, for example, if you spill some milk and need to clean it up on Sabbath, or, if you ran out of gas because you failed to fill up before, or because you have to buy some food because you have nothing to eat. God understands. God is a reasonable God.

But, when God sees that over and over again you purposely avoid taking care of these things before Sabbath, because you show no regard for His Sabbath, and then on Sabbath decide do to all those things, God will hold you accountable in the judgment for not regarding the time which He sanctified. It is SACRED and SANCTIFIED time. Every moment, the holiness is present in that moment. It is HOLY sacred time, from sunset to sunset. When you WILLFULLY go out of your way to violate God's law by breaking this time, God takes it seriously. Because it reveals that there is indwelling sin in us.

Breaking the Sabbath on a continual basis reveals that there is other sins in the life.

Why? Because the Sabbath is a SIGN that the Lord sanctifies us.
You condemn yourself in this post.
 
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Which is why Christ fills in where we fail.

Uh, no, Jesus provided no 'excuses' for the presence of indwelling sin. That is just a cop out to the fact of having it.

I will say this again so you maybe 'get it.' The presence of indwelling sin will never be legal or obedient, nor is that even possible. It is also why all people utterly fail to comply with the LAW.

All the while you may be thinking you 'may' be in legal compliance, even the mere thought of not showing up for Saturday Sabbath or the mere thought of eating PORK remains A SIN and proves the fact of the presence of same.

Now, one can just come to grips with this fact or one can gloss over the fact.

I prefer to be honest about it. It's much easier.

But God expects us to exert our effort and keep the law. Once He sees we are doing our best, it reveals where our heart is at. That we truly love God, and want to keep His commandments.

I can only laugh at the impossibility of your proposal. We do not become sinless by legal compliance nor does the presence of indwelling sin disappear when we (think) we are 'following the LAW.'

The fact is the LAW proves the presence of indwelling sin well beyond any reasonable doubt. Now why would any logical person think that working is going to be legal or go away?

Indwelling sin is not and can not be legal, ever.

Revelation clearly teaches that those who are going to be partaking of the tree of life will be those who "DO His commandments", not just "talk" about them.

The basis of 'entry' into understanding is honesty. Honestly the workings of Satan were addressed in all 7 of the churches of Revelation. I feel pretty confident that Satan will not be eating of the tree of life. I also know that sin is of the devil. So if we honestly look at our own present condition we will see ourselves and we will also see that we are subject to THOUGHTS OF EVIL which are courtesy of SATAN.

Jesus asks us if we have EARS. I hear the bad side as being applicable to what 'I' carry, which is the presence of indwelling sin, which same is of the DEVIL in the form of EVIL THOUGHTS.

I believe my picture is accurate and truthful. I will not be painting that 'other working' as being legal or even able to be legal. That is just a folly of delusion. I'd rather just be honest about it. It's much easier.
I find it interesting how people say we can't keep the law perfectly,

You just finished saying that yourself! ^_^

so therefore, we shouldn't even try.

The folly you present remains the same. We do not eradicate the presence of indwelling sin by legal compliance, nor is that even possible. It is quite futile.

Paul clearly describes in Romans 7 that evil was present with him.

There is you, there is I, there is Paul, and there is EVIL PRESENT with all of us.

Now, how 'legal' do you think that presence is going to be or become?

I'd say the chances of that happening are far less than ZERO.


You are however certainly welcome to TRY. I can only shake my head in wonder at how you might propose EVIL PRESENT to be 'legal' and 'obedient.'

But then they go on to say that the only law Jesus was talking about were the "law's of Christ", not the Ten Commandments.

I believe every jot and tittle of the LAW is fully applicable, fully true and fully secure to this exact moment and will be until heaven and earth pass away and then GODS WORDS will still remain, and those WORDS are LAW.

Wait a minute!

Wouldn't doing Jesus's laws also be "compliance based"?

In the command to BE PERFECT one might realize that the only way to be AS PERFECT AS GOD is to BE GOD.

You there yet?

So, what might the hindrance be? Oh, yeah, that little fact of 'having the presence of SIN.

Oh. Well, you mean I might actually come to understand UNMERITED favor/grace to myself and NOT to the presence and workings of sin?

OK. I get that. Do you?

So why are we trying to follow Jesus' laws, and that's not compliance based, but trying to follow only the Ten Commandments is? That makes no sense.

Love follows and obeys every law by doing what?

Oh, LOVING!

Love also resists EVIL and LAWLESSNESS.

Not all that difficult is it? Especially when we come to grips with the fact that evil and lawlessness is a presence of demonic influences that we all 'carry' in our flesh, minds and hearts.

Now, do I really expect the DEVIL to follow the law or to LOVE?

uh, that would be a pretty solid NO.

Under these types of rules, it doesn't matter whether one is trying to follow Jesus' teachings (or the teachings of the Apostles), or the Ten Commandments, either way, it's STILL "compliance based" based on these types of rules.

The DEVIL(s) were made by God to automatically RESIST Gods Laws, Gods Words and Gods TRUTH. This resistance transpires IN MAN. IN all of us. The only exception to this fact was Jesus, God Himself in the flesh.

This FACT is not going to change until the DEVIL is destroyed. The 'workings' of SATAN transpires in the hearts of MANKIND. That's the way our current system has been set up BY GOD.

There is you, there is me, there is the 'other working' that is neither one of us. I don't have any expectations of demonic influences to be legal anytime soon, or ever.

I have even less interests in lying to myself about it, though many do.

enjoy!

s
 
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The issue is not a day seekertruth72, the issue is the heart.

Beware that the Sabbath to you is not appearing as "insignificant" as the fruit on the tree did to Eve. God used the fruit as a test, and Eve could not fathom the thought that God would make such a deal of just having a little taste of a piece of fruit. Besides, it was nothing "immoral", right? Likewise, God is using the Sabbath, a "seemingly insignificant" thing, as a test for God's people in the last days. It reveals where their hearts are truly at, and whether they really mean business about serving Him with all their heart.
Naw don't let em hood wink ya.
 
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seekertruth72

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No more sin offerings, the sacrifice of God is a broken and contrite heart, i have observed that law. Praise the Lord. My heart was broken and contrite, i cried out to Him in Godly fear, He has made it my delight to do His will, as it is taught by the Apostles and the Lord. As i Abide in Him and continue to obey, to humble myself, to try with all my heart, mind, soul and strength to love Him and my neighbor as myself, and to love Him by fleeing and abstaining from works of the flesh and instead seeking the good things of the spirit, then i will continue to Grow, by Gods grace, by living in faith and obedience do i abide in Christ, only then will he abide in me and cause me to bear good fruit..
 
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Which is why Christ's righteousness covers where we fail. But God expects us to exert our effort and keep the law. Once He sees we are doing our best, it reveals where our heart is at. That we truly love God, and want to keep His commandments, despite our shortcomings.

Revelation clearly teaches that those who are going to be partaking of the tree of life will be those who "DO His commandments", not just "talk" about them.

I find it interesting how people say we can't keep the law perfectly, so therefore, we shouldn't even try. But then they go on to say that the only law Jesus was talking about were the "law's of Christ", not the Ten Commandments.

Wait a minute!

Wouldn't doing Jesus's laws also be "compliance based"?

So why are we trying to follow Jesus' laws, and that's not compliance based, but trying to follow only the Ten Commandments is? That makes no sense.

Under these types of rules, it doesn't matter whether one is trying to follow Jesus' teachings (or the teachings of the Apostles), or the Ten Commandments, either way, it's STILL "compliance based" based on these types of rules.

The fact is, what we do is the outward evidence of our faith.

If the heart is right, a natural result will be to obey God in all that He asks. And this includes keeping all 10 commandments.

Willful violation of God's requirements results in no more sacrifice for our sins (see Hebrews 10:26). Sin to us is when we avoid doing what we know to be right (see James 4:17).

When you willfully and CONSISTENTLY break a commandment, Jesus is not going to save you. He will say, "I never knew you".

squint, be careful that you are not neglecting Peter's warning about Paul's letters.
"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position." (1 Peter 3:15-17)
May we not take these warnings lightly.
So you still argue for a works based salvation. It will get plenty warm according to the Scripture I read.
 
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seekertruth72

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I ague not for a works based salvation, but a works based aboding. We abide in the Lord by obeying Him both with faith, and obedience with all our heart, mind, soul and strength.


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


Joh_15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh_15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


1Th_4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
 
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Uh, no, Jesus provided no 'excuses' for the presence of indwelling sin. That is just a cop out to the fact of having it.

I will say this again so you maybe 'get it.' The presence of indwelling sin will never be legal or obedient, nor is that even possible. It is also why all people utterly fail to comply with the LAW.

All the while you may be thinking you 'may' be in legal compliance, even the mere thought of not showing up for Saturday Sabbath or the mere thought of eating PORK remains A SIN and proves the fact of the presence of same.

Now, one can just come to grips with this fact or one can gloss over the fact.

I prefer to be honest about it. It's much easier.



I can only laugh at the impossibility of your proposal. We do not become sinless by legal compliance nor does the presence of indwelling sin disappear when we (think) we are 'following the LAW.'

The fact is the LAW proves the presence of indwelling sin well beyond any reasonable doubt. Now why would any logical person think that working is going to be legal or go away?

Indwelling sin is not and can not be legal, ever.



The basis of 'entry' into understanding is honesty. Honestly the workings of Satan were addressed in all 7 of the churches of Revelation. I feel pretty confident that Satan will not be eating of the tree of life. I also know that sin is of the devil. So if we honestly look at our own present condition we will see ourselves and we will also see that we are subject to THOUGHTS OF EVIL which are courtesy of SATAN.

Jesus asks us if we have EARS. I hear the bad side as being applicable to what 'I' carry, which is the presence of indwelling sin, which same is of the DEVIL in the form of EVIL THOUGHTS.

I believe my picture is accurate and truthful. I will not be painting that 'other working' as being legal or even able to be legal. That is just a folly of delusion. I'd rather just be honest about it. It's much easier.


You just finished saying that yourself! ^_^



The folly you present remains the same. We do not eradicate the presence of indwelling sin by legal compliance, nor is that even possible. It is quite futile.

Paul clearly describes in Romans 7 that evil was present with him.

There is you, there is I, there is Paul, and there is EVIL PRESENT with all of us.

Now, how 'legal' do you think that presence is going to be or become?

I'd say the chances of that happening are far less than ZERO.

You are however certainly welcome to TRY. I can only shake my head in wonder at how you might propose EVIL PRESENT to be 'legal' and 'obedient.'



I believe every jot and tittle of the LAW is fully applicable, fully true and fully secure to this exact moment and will be until heaven and earth pass away and then GODS WORDS will still remain, and those WORDS are LAW.



In the command to BE PERFECT one might realize that the only way to be AS PERFECT AS GOD is to BE GOD.

You there yet?

So, what might the hindrance be? Oh, yeah, that little fact of 'having the presence of SIN.

Oh. Well, you mean I might actually come to understand UNMERITED favor/grace to myself and NOT to the presence and workings of sin?

OK. I get that. Do you?



Love follows and obeys every law by doing what?

Oh, LOVING!

Love also resists EVIL and LAWLESSNESS.

Not all that difficult is it? Especially when we come to grips with the fact that evil and lawlessness is a presence of demonic influences that we all 'carry' in our flesh, minds and hearts.

Now, do I really expect the DEVIL to follow the law or to LOVE?

uh, that would be a pretty solid NO.



The DEVIL(s) were made by God to automatically RESIST Gods Laws, Gods Words and Gods TRUTH. This resistance transpires IN MAN. IN all of us. The only exception to this fact was Jesus, God Himself in the flesh.

This FACT is not going to change until the DEVIL is destroyed. The 'workings' of SATAN transpires in the hearts of MANKIND. That's the way our current system has been set up BY GOD.

There is you, there is me, there is the 'other working' that is neither one of us. I don't have any expectations of demonic influences to be legal anytime soon, or ever.

I have even less interests in lying to myself about it, though many do.

enjoy!

s
Still playing the same tune.
 
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We abide in Christ in both word and deed, by faith. Is abiding in Christ not a command? We cannot abide in Christ by not obeying Gods will, we must submit to Gods will. Everything that is Gods will is commanded. That goes without saying.
depends on what you call God's will.
 
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Talk about the pan calling the kettle "black". ;)

You just felt the need to go into a huge lengthy explanation about the word "alike".

I've already explained that whether the word "alike" is there or not, it does not matter.

Why?

Because the concept of "every day" is not in context of every week day. It's talking about "every one of those days in question", concerning holidays. Everyone of those holidays (that are being debated about), some esteem all those days, some do not.

Let ever man be convinced (or persuaded) in his own mind (in other words, do not force someone to believe a certain way, but let them study it out for themselves). Yet there is only one truth.

So our point still stands.

Scripture with scripture.
No I didn't.

Don't think your psoition stand at all and not still.
 
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