ELCA turns away young people

IMO, some of this starts when we choose to continually segregate our children and youth from the rest of the congregation. They grow up not understanding the need to, or having the knowledge of how to connect to those outside their own age group.

I believe that a healthy church incorporates all of its members together - both older and younger. It makes efforts to strengthen the relationship and mutual respect between the generations. We all need one another, and have much to gain from one another; and much is lost when we continually segregate into age brackets. We are at our best when we are all serving shoulder-to-shoulder together.

This is something I'm trying very hard to help foster at our church. The bulk of my work is with our older members and the families of the children of our preschool. Our DCE and I have been putting our heads together to try to find ways to bring the youth group and the older folks together. One example of something we are starting is that some of the youth will be video-taping greetings from our members to our homebound members. It helps the homebound members feel that they are still an important part of our congregation (which they are!), and it helps our youth get out and connect with other members of the congregation, all while serving the homebound members.

joyfulthanks said:

IMO, some of this starts when we choose to continually segregate our children and youth from the rest of the congregation. They grow up not understanding the need to, or having the knowledge of how to connect to those outside their own age group.

I believe that a healthy church incorporates all of its members together - both older and younger. It makes efforts to strengthen the relationship and mutual respect between the generations. We all need one another, and have much to gain from one another; and much is lost when we continually segregate into age brackets. We are at our best when we are all serving shoulder-to-shoulder together.

This is something I'm trying very hard to help foster at our church. The bulk of my work is with our older members and the families of the children of our preschool. Our DCE and I have been putting our heads together to try to find ways to bring the youth group and the older folks together. One example of something we are starting is that some of the youth will be video-taping greetings from our members to our homebound members. It helps the homebound members feel that they are still an important part of our congregation (which they are!), and it helps our youth get out and connect with other members of the congregation, all while serving the homebound members.

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I don't want to hijack a good thread, but you hit a "spot" with me...

I'm increasingly uncomfortable with the way modern, western Christianity SEPARATES people from each other. Men's groups, Women's groups, Youth groups, Singles groups, Young adult groups, Senior's Groups. Men's Bible Study. Luther WOMEN'S Missionary League. Middle School Youth Group. College Group. A family walks in the door and we rush to separate them - each from each other. They come in the door and we sort them: Traditional worship, Contemporary worship, Country music, folk music, suits or shorts, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. Segregating.... separating.... sorting.

I 'get' the whole "homogenious groups" thing and how people have common interests. But it also seems to me the church should be embracing unity, reconciliation, bringing people TOGETHER.

I've been on both sides of this. I teach the TEEN Sunday School class and am a YOUTH counselors to the youth group (if you can call it that). But, about a year ago, there was a progressive dinner. Sounded really fun! To help reinburse the hosts, there were tickets: 2 for $10.00. They billed it a "Couples Night Out." I was single then, with no "s/o" to bring. Why wasn't just a Progressive Dinner? Tickets 1 for $5.00? I would have been FINE being unaccompanied in a sea of couples (boy, am I use to that!). But....

Sorry (I really am). I'm just a tad touchy on this point.... and struggling with this in my own small (tiny!) congregation and ministry.





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Emmeline said:

I was raised as an ELCA Lutheran in the southeast, where the Lutheran churches are a small and dying presence. And ever since I graduated from high school, I've felt like I've graduated from the church. There are no programs or activities designed specifically for young adults (like the 18-30 age range). All of the Sunday school lessons, Bible studies, worship services, etc are geared towards people either younger or much older than me. They have little correlation to my life and experiences. Frankly they don't appeal to me, and frankly, I don't want to attend church if I'm going to be profoundly bored. The church sucks you in as a child with summer camp, Easter egg hunts, Christmas pageants,,, confirmation, youth group, etc. But as soon as you turn 18 - BAM! - the events, activities and programs dry up. You can only help with the kiddie stuff, or wait until you're a 60 something retiree to participate in church-sponsered bingo or quilting bees. I really don't mind serving others in the church, but I also want to be engaged on a spiritual and intellectual level.

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thats what happens in an entertainment driven church, they entertain you to believe your a Christian, when in fact, Christ bores you to tears, you probably didn't even know you were going to church to actually do somthing not get somthing, try one of the new age seeker friendly rock-athon mega churches they will keep this facade rolling into your golden years

CaliforniaJosiah said:

I don't want to hijack a good thread, but you hit a "spot" with me...

I'm increasingly uncomfortable with the way modern, western Christianity SEPARATES people from each other. Men's groups, Women's groups, Youth groups, Singles groups, Young adult groups, Senior's Groups. Men's Bible Study. Luther WOMEN'S Missionary League. Middle School Youth Group. College Group. A family walks in the door and we rush to separate them - each from each other. They come in the door and we sort them: Traditional worship, Contemporary worship, Country music, folk music, suits or shorts, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. Segregating.... separating.... sorting.

I 'get' the whole "homogenious groups" thing and how people have common interests. But it also seems to me the church should be embracing unity, reconciliation, bringing people TOGETHER.

Sorry (I really am). I'm just a tad touchy on this point.... and struggling with this in my own small (tiny!) congregation and ministry.

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Josiah,

I totally agree with you. Keep working on bringing people together in Christ, and so will I. Every little bit helps!

CaliforniaJosiah said:

I'm increasingly uncomfortable with the way modern, western Christianity SEPARATES people from each other. Men's groups, Women's groups, Youth groups, Singles groups, Young adult groups, Senior's Groups. Men's Bible Study. Luther WOMEN'S Missionary League. Middle School Youth Group. College Group.

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I'm not sure that this is perculiar to "modern" Christianity. Many Christian denominations once required that men sit on one side of the church, women on the other. That goes back several hundred years. I understand that a few churches still do that. Women's social groups date back to before the American Civil War--again not a recent development.

A family walks in the door and we rush to separate them - each from each other. They come in the door and we sort them: Traditional worship, Contemporary worship, Country music, folk music, suits or shorts, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. Segregating.... separating.... sorting.

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But some people prefer contemporary worship, and simply adding a few contemporary songs to a traditional service isn't what they are after. What's wrong with having a seperate contemporary service for those who want such an experience? Suits or shorts isn't segregating. In my church we have people who wear suits year round sitting next to people wearing shorts.

I 'get' the whole "homogenious groups" thing and how people have common interests. But it also seems to me the church should be embracing unity, reconciliation, bringing people TOGETHER.

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And my church does work to bring people together. The worship service brings people together, and in addition to that we have church picnics, progressive dinners, socials, fish dinners, theatre, etc. But having a youth group and a women's group and a men's group and a young adult group and a senior group that also do their own things doesn't take away from that.

I've been on both sides of this. I teach the TEEN Sunday School class and am a YOUTH counselors to the youth group (if you can call it that).

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And I know that you wouldn't suggest having a single Sunday school that includes everyone from first graders to adults instead of organizing classes based on age.

But, about a year ago, there was a progressive dinner. Sounded really fun! To help reinburse the hosts, there were tickets: 2 for $10.00. They billed it a "Couples Night Out." I was single then, with no "s/o" to bring. Why wasn't just a Progressive Dinner? Tickets 1 for $5.00? I would have been FINE being unaccompanied in a sea of couples (boy, am I use to that!). But....

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I'm sorry that you had that experience. My church had a progressive dinner in January. Tickets were sold on a per-person basis. It was mainly couples, but three of us went as singles. Age ranged from 30's to 70's. I think everyone had a good time.

Archivist said:

And I know that you wouldn't suggest having a single Sunday school that includes everyone from first graders to adults instead of organizing classes based on age.

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Thanks for ALL your comments.... I just want to respond to this small part of it...

Actually, as a Sunday School teacher, I've given some thought to EXACTLY that. I learned about an alternative from an LDS friend of mine who said the LDS long ago abandoned age classes. They have ONE Sunday School class for the entire congregation - but families work together, as families, with things for the adults to think about, for the whole family to talk about, and to help impliment. I've given that some thought.... Not so easy to do, and in my church there are a lot of non-families (we have a lot of seniors, their spouse now in heaven, and a lot of divorced folks, and most are "empty nesters", then there's me.... 24 and single). But there's something to be said about the Study time bringing us together. I've let that bounce around in my head... without any specific plan.


Again, my sincere apologies to the opening poster. I don't mean to derail things. AND I don't mean to sound complaining....


Pax


- Josiah





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I'm sorry that you had that experience. My church had a progressive dinner in January. Tickets were sold on a per-person basis. It was mainly couples, but three of us went as singles. Age ranged from 30's to 70's. I think everyone had a good time.[/quote]

Not too long ago, our congregation was segregated males on one side, women on the other. I recall someone say it wasn't until the 50's that they integrated.
I work with the adult Sunday school, but we also follow a one-room model for our youth Sunday school, where the older kids assist the younger ones and still manage to learn something age appropriate for themselves. I also am part of a women's bible study and attend the "retiree's" weekday morning study. I am a rebel. Breaking age barriers and such! Anyway, I do not agree with this concept of segregation. Luckily, I feel quite loved by the most senior members. We tried to start a young women's circle in addition to our middle-age circle (which I regularly attend) and the senior circle (which I am warmly invited and do often participate). The young women's group didn't take off. Only two gals showed up.
I strongly believe that just because a shell "organization" is formed for a group, they will not come unless 1) there is a common event (like a kids clothing swap) and 2) many folks don't want committment to committees or organizations. Yes, that worked in the past, but they had larger numbers of potential participants who knew their role in a group (women of a certain age stuck together because that is what you did when the men were off doing their thing). Today, my contemporaries don't have time to spend, let alone a spouse to watch the kids.
In our congregation, I can clearly see the need to integrate multi-generational relationships, as that is where young families are going to find support, and also in specific events. By making events-based groups, such as a parenting support group or senior activity group, we are not ignoring the needs, but focussing on particular activities which might bind folks together by common interest, not just strictly by demographic sorting. Relationships, like circles, will naturally evolve once these folks gather more regularly.

I remember going to an older Lutheran church and noticing that there were these strange hook-like things on the backs of the pews, along with the shelf-things for hymnals and Bibles. But the hooks were only on the left side pews.

Come to find out, when the church was gender-segregated, the men sat on the left. The hooks were for their hats.

In my church, we had a congregational discussion (one of many) about where we saw our congregation focusing in the next 5-10 years. Expand the pre-school into kindergarten or higher grades? Build an expansion to better serve the needs of the congregation and community? Focus on a particular segment of the community to serve and share the Gospel with? You know the sort of discussion...

One father spoke up about this whole youth/young-adult thing. He said that after high school there was nothing for his children in the church, and now they don't attend at all. I found it rather strange. When I was growing up, we had a Youth Group, but when you graduated High School it was assumed that you were now an adult and would participate as an adult member of the congregation. I think my church is still going on this sort of model.

And keep in mind that some of the segregation we see is self-imposed. I lead a small adult Sunday School class, and a book club twice a month. Both groups are open to anyone in the congregation... but only women attend. It's only been in the past few months (after teaching this class for about three years) that I've had a couple guys in my Sunday School class.