What Commandment did God say to; "Remember", that the world wants to forget? (4)

listed · Mar 23, 2012

Revelation 14:6-12 said:
...I also will ask you ..., which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you...

Who is Israel of Hosea 11:1 and Matthew 2:15?

With whom was the New Covenant specifically to be made with in Jeremiah 31:31-33, and as recited in Hebrews 8:8-10, 10:16?

OK if the NC is only to include the Israelites, What about this passage -

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

And this one -

23And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

And what about the historical records of Acts? I don't read there that any Gentile joined themselves to the covanant made with Israel as the subverters were demanding. In fact the Apostles said they had no such authority and didn't back them. The only way into that covenant was through circumcision as the subverters demanded. The Gentile Christians never entered that covenant.

listed · Mar 23, 2012

someguy14 said:
So it is good to rest on the sabbath and it is also good to do good on the sabbath.
Condemnation is only for those against Gods goodness. As it is written, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." Mark 2:27-28

Romans 12:9
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Phillippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

It is always appropriate to do the good that God works through us. Let God rule in us to do as He wills and keep our mind on pleasing God in every goodness that God works through us, without condemnation. It is always good to do the good that God works through His own. It is always good to accept Gods love and have God work freely in us.

Isn't this called Scriptureal abuse and misuse?

listed · Mar 23, 2012

tzadik said:
If you seriously just said that....

Then I'm sorry to tell you but you have no earthly clue what it means to "keep God's commandments".

If you seriously think it means to NEVER again in your life ever break a single commandment or else you're screwed...

It all makes sense now.
No WONDER you fight so hard against wanting to "attempt to obey God's Instructions".

It's because you think you would never be able to perfectly keep them.
Got it.

Yep to keep the commandments means only when one doesn't sin, really a part time affair whenever we feel like it or just happen to do so. The Scripture doesn't agree with you. for it says - 3They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. PS 14 And - 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3. The only one to ever accomplish what you said is Jesus Who met every requirement of the law for a male (least you say Jesus didn't meet the cleansing requirements of the female or Levitical priest).

tzadik · Mar 23, 2012

listed said:
Yep to keep the commandments means only when one doesn't sin, really a part time affair whenever we feel like it or just happen to do so. The Scripture doesn't agree with you. for it says - 3They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. PS 14 And - 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3. The only one to ever accomplish what you said is Jesus Who met every requirement of the law for a male (least you say Jesus didn't meet the cleansing requirements of the female or Levitical priest).

So Paul was sinless in his confession in Acts 21:24?

What about Elizabeth and Zechariah? Where they sinless in Luke 1:6?

What about David, he confessed OVER and OVER again to keep God's Law, was he sinless?

listed · Mar 23, 2012

tzadik said:
Make sure you have some Greek and Hebrew Bibles at hand too.

Pray tell me when this Sabbath "ceasing" came to pass.

I do have both texts in hard copy.

No I don't read either Greek or Hebrew, but use them for comparison with what I find.

Can't tell you exactly, but around 70 AD. Concerning today - do you observe the Sabbath of the Lord thy God as required of Israel? No and we've covered that. But if you answer affirmitive I can repeat the cycle without a problem.

tzadik · Mar 23, 2012

listed said:
Yep to keep the commandments means only when one doesn't sin, really a part time affair whenever we feel like it or just happen to do so. The Scripture doesn't agree with you. for it says - 3They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. PS 14 And - 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3. The only one to ever accomplish what you said is Jesus Who met every requirement of the law for a male (least you say Jesus didn't meet the cleansing requirements of the female or Levitical priest).

"So you shall keep My commandments, and do them; I am the LORD."

If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments so as to carry them out,"

"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

"but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."

`Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them and with their sons forever!'

"so that you and your son and your grandson might fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged."

"You should diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and His testimonies and His statutes which He has commanded you."

"Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;"

Was God telling them make sure you NEVER sin again? EVER!?
What would happen if they did sin? (as believers)

listed · Mar 23, 2012

tzadik said:
So Paul was sinless in his confession in Acts 21:24?

What about Elizabeth and Zechariah? Where they sinless in Luke 1:6?

What about David, he confessed OVER and OVER again to keep God's Law, was he sinless?

No Paul didn't commit sin in his confession.

Are you trying to say that Elizabeth and Zechariah didn't need a Saviour? After all they were without sin as you say?

What about David was he sinless or roghteous? Where did this righteousness come from? Was it because of his actions? Hardly as you pointed out he sinned. Same goes for others listed in Heb 11.

listed · Mar 23, 2012

tzadik said:
"So you shall keep My commandments, and do them; I am the LORD."

If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments so as to carry them out,"

"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

"but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."

`Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them and with their sons forever!'

"so that you and your son and your grandson might fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged."

"You should diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and His testimonies and His statutes which He has commanded you."

"Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;"

Was God telling them make sure you NEVER sin again? EVER!?
What would happen if they did sin? (as believers)

Without checking all your quotes come from the OT and are directed specifically to Israel alone.

tzadik · Mar 23, 2012

listed said:
I do have both texts in hard copy. No I don't read either Greek or Hebrew, but use them for comparison with what I find.

Good.

listed said:
Can't tell you exactly, but around 70 AD.

So what you mean to tell me is that some time around 70 AD, God stopped calling the Sabbath day His Holy day. Messiah stopped being the Lord of the Sabbath, and God told EVERYONE to stop calling His Sabbath day a delight, holy, set apart, a day of holy convocation. He removed the blessing and sanctification that He created along with the Seventh Day on the very first Seventh day and cancelled ALL the blessings and promises attached to those who keep His Holy Day sanctified (such as Isa 56, 58)??

tzadik · Mar 23, 2012

listed said:
Without checking all your quotes come from the OT and are directed specifically to Israel alone.

lol sorry. I forgot. "NT only".
I'll try again this time starting from the bottom up (in the "NT")
In the meantime...Israel were supposed to be without sin?

tzadik · Mar 23, 2012

listed said:
Without checking all your quotes come from the OT and are directed specifically to Israel alone.

The things that I do for the "NT only" people...

Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

We're not gonna fight over "which commandment or commandments they are referring to". They are God's commandments. Whether one or 1,000. So the question remains...

When He tells us to Keep God's Commandments...
Are we supposed to keep His Commandment (s) without sin, without failing in any of them???

tzadik · Mar 23, 2012

listed said:
Yep to keep the commandments means only when one doesn't sin, really a part time affair

tzadik said:
So Paul was sinless in his confession in Acts 21:24?
What about Elizabeth and Zechariah? Where they sinless in Luke 1:6?
What about David, he confessed OVER and OVER again to keep God's Law, was he sinless?

listed said:
No Paul didn't commit sin in his confession.
Are you trying to say that Elizabeth and Zechariah didn't need a Saviour? After all they were without sin as you say?
What about David was he sinless or roghteous? Where did this righteousness come from? Was it because of his actions? Hardly as you pointed out he sinned. Same goes for others listed in Heb 11.

Are you serious? Can we atleast argue honestly here? You just told me that if you “claim to keep God’s Commandments” you can’t sin anymore, or break any of them.
So my question to you was, if this was true, was Paul lying when he said that He keeps the Law? Was Luke lying in talking about John’s parents “Keeping the Law”, and did David not commit another sin in his life when he was “keeping, delighting and loving God’s Law”?
To think that “keeping God’s commandments” = keeping every single commandment for the rest of your life without failing in one is actually blasphemous. Because as you say there is no one perfect, but Messiah.
So what DOES it mean to keep God’s commandments? It means living a life of obedience to God’s Word. Does that mean we’ll perfectly obey every command? No.

But it’s line upon line, precept upon precept. God and His Spirit will guide you, assist you and lead you in His Truth.
When you fall, He provides provisions for you to rectify your mistake, your missing of the Mark, and re-establish your relationship with God.

He is the one that gives you grace, strength and the desire to like Paul joyfully concur with the Law of God, confessing that it’s good for instruction, correction, and training in righteousness.
It is not out of obligation, but out of love, trust and faith in my God that I strive everyday to live a life of obedience to His will! What I don't understand, I pray and ask and search out until I do understand. But that is the renewed joy that I have everyday, knowing that it is a brand new day where I can walk on that narrow path, striving to do the will of my Heavenly Father.

someguy14 · Mar 23, 2012

All of Gods ways are good.

tzadik · Mar 23, 2012

someguy14 said:
All of Gods ways are good.

Agreed.

Lysimachus · Mar 23, 2012

listed said:
OK not that I've recovered some composure and control of my emotions I start answering this post.

Just be sure that the reason your emotions want to flare up are not because the data I presented provides some compelling evidence that fly straight in the face of your interpretations of scripture.

listed said:
First I'd like to say I've read the complete Bible several times. This includes more than one version. I personally have 11 hard versions. I have access to prolly 25 more just in English.

I know some people who have read their Bible 5 times through, from beginning to end, and they still know nothing about the Bible. It's not reading it that gets you anywhere, it's what spirit you're in when you read it, and how you read it. I can safely say that I know a lot more Bible than a number of people who have read it all the way through from beginning to end. Not even my father has ever read the Bible through from beginning to end, and he can quote scripture and refute people who have read it several times. Also, these people that I know who have read their Bible through from beginning to end, they are living a party life, they come up with very secular arguments, they brag about how much Bible they've read, but they can never produce a scripture from memory in its defense, nor are they living up to what the Bible even says.

You will gain a lot more knowledge if you meditate for weeks in just one passage from scripture than if you just read the Bible straight through from beginning to end just to get the job done and brag about it.

listed said:
Second I'm aware that your church teaches British Isrealism now called replacement theology a ver accurate description.

Seventh-Day Adventism does not teach British Israelism. British Israelism teaches that the people of Western European descent, particularly those in Great Britain, are the direct lineal descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. Adventism does not teach this. We believe just what the Bible says in Galatians 3:28,29; 4:22-31; Ephesians 2:11-21; 3:3-6; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Romans 9:6-8 and a host of other texts, that God's Israel consists of all people who love God and accept Christ Jesus as their Master, Saviour, and King, have faith in Jesus, and KEEP His commandments! All those who are IN CHRIST are part of the Israel of God. British Israelism is still based on the flesh--based on physical lineage--and this cannot be proven. Adventists believe that even an Indian or Chinese or African that gives his life to Christ, He is a Jew of the spirit, and not of the flesh--regardless of what their blood lineage is. British Israelism is still dependent on blood lineage.

We do not teach this. Please get your facts straight.

And lastly, Adventism also does not teach "Replacement Theology". Replacement Theology teaches that the Church "replaces" Israel.

No. The Church does not "replace" Israel. Israel is GIVEN to new Husbandmen, the Church. Israel has always been a "spiritual" concept. The Jewish Nation (the theocracy) has been replaced, not Israel. The Jewish Nation was the OLD husbandman for the House of Israel. The Church is the NEW husbandman for the House of Israel. Israel is the Vineyard, and the husbandmen are the Vinedressers. Scriptures teach that the Vineyard (Israel) would be let out to NEW vinedressers (or husbandmen).

I wrote an article about a year ago on this very subject:

The Israel of God and the False Charge of "Replacement Theology"

Read this article if you want to know the truth about what we believe on this matter.

We as Adventists do not believe in splitting up God's people in two camps like you do. God recognizes His people as ONE organic unit.

You believe in TWO trees, but according to Romans 11, there is only ONE tree!

listed said:
I'm flat out insulted by this quote from your site. Have you or its author read the Bible? The sabbath can't change. Now where does this idea come from? Does this guy or you read the Bible? God promised the sabbath would cease in Hosea 2:11. God promised the covenant would be replaced with a new one not according to the old one in Jer 31:31-33.It isn't God that changes, it is His plan of redemption that is built little by little which I'll address with a quote.

You shouldn't be insulted by the quote, as the quote used the Bible to back up its claims. Hosea 2:11 never said "the Sabbath" would cease. It said "her Sabbaths", not the "Sabbath of the Lord" (Exodus 20:10; 23:3; Deut 5:14; Levit 23:38) which is the same one God declares as "My Holy Day" (Isa 58:13); and the Son of Man is "Lord also of the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27). The sabbaths in discussion here have to do with Israel's special annual sabbaths, not the Weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments. Have you even read Ron du Preez' work, "Judging the Sabbath: What Can't Be Found in Colossians 2:16"? The very fact that Colossians 2:16 is being quoted from Hosea 2:11 is PROOF that it is not the weekly Sabbath, yet you are using Hosea 2:11 to prove the very point that the verse itself disproves your argument? The irony!

Also, what does Hebrews 7:12 have anything to do with the change in the Sabbath? The context is clear--when reading verses 9-16, it is unequivocaly, and unapologetically clear that the change in the law has to do with the fact the priesthood can only be handed down to the sons of Aaron. You should know this, and you should see that there is nothing to argue here.

listed said:
What does new in the Jeremiah reference mean?

What does not according to mean?

A new covenant means just a new covenant. But why? Because they BROKE it. Read the context! lol If it is a broken covenant, it has to be RESTORED. When it is restored, it is BRAND NEW. But the contract to keep God's laws does NOT change. The agreement is STRONGER. Now the law has to be kept from the HEART--that is, if we let Jesus write the law in your heart by the Spirit!

listed said:
God can't change? My that is funny. Frogster would go bah ha ha gagga bah ha ha. And I'd agree hook line and sinker. First of all the verse cited says that God changes not? Then is Jeremiah a false prophet? Is Hosea a false prophet? Is Joel a false prophet? Is Isaiah a false prophet? Sure seems that a lot of the OT Scripture is being thrown out.

No, they are not false prophets because none of them say that the Law of God changes like you are manipulating and construing their words to say. You are reading these text with skewed lenses, and you need a new pair of glasses before you can finally see what we are trying to help you see. A covenant is an "agreement", a "pact", a "contract", a "marriage vow", a "promise" between two parties concerning the words written IN a law! The LAW does not change, but the AGREEMENT does! This time the promise is for God to work in and through the hearts of believers, to enable them and empower them through the Holy Spirit to be obedient to His commandments.

All the earthly shadowy laws of ceremonial rites and services have been abolished, but now they meet their reality in Christ's Priesthood in heaven, and all find their reality antitypically in the New Covenant promise. But the Ten Commandments are NOT a shadow! Not killing is forever. Not worshiping other gods is FOREVER. Not committing adultery is FOREVER. Not stealing is FOREVER. Not dishonoring your parents is FOREVER. Not coveting is FOREVER. Not taking God's name in vain is FOREVER. Likewise, consistency demands that God's 4th commandment Sabbath is likewise FOREVER!

listed said:
I've already hit up 2 of the 4 and would like to get one more - Isaiah from which I'll quote - 10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little. I witness this very thing about one of your pets from the stone tablets as I read the Book of the Law. It isn't God that changes. It is His program or plan of revealing and providing salvation. Really is a very interesting study. Oh the details. Unfortunately a discussion would consume more than several posts and would be much more like a full lenght book.

Mhmm... as you say listed.

You do realize that you violate Isaiah 28:9-13 everytime you employ your spurious arguments to attack God's Holy Law? If you really understood the principle of "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little", you in no wise would be coming to the conclusions that you do. For example, when you conclude that the phrase "a change also of the law" in Hebrews 7:12 must be referring to a change in the Sabbath, without referencing ANY other texts to draw history in understanding what the author of Hebrews is saying, can you honestly say you are employing the principles of Isaiah 28:9-13? I don't think so!

listed said:
The point about the priesthood is way off. It doesn't matter one little twit if Melchizedek was a priest before or after. The fact is the Levites were the priesthood according to the law. And that is what we're talking about. The deal is that the priesthood changed again if you wish to include Melchizedek. Jesus is neither from the tribe of Levi nor Melchizedek. The law makes the Levites the priesthood and Jesus is from the tribe of Judah. This makes Jesus (God) a sinner according to the law or the law is changed. Take your pick.

There is nothing off about it. When you to conclude that the expression "a change also of the law" in Hebrews 7:12 has to do with the Sabbath, and not to do with a change in the law of inheritance of the priesthood, you create a monstrosity of multifarious layers of self-contradictions within the Holy Writ! The change of the law has to do with the "change of priesthood", not with the Moral Law of Ten Commandments!

Or would you rather injure the testimony of the scriptures by concluding that Hebrews 7:12 contradicts the following verses in Malachi 3:6 where the Lord says "I change not", and Psalms 89:34 where God says He will not break His covenant nor alter anything that is gone out of his lips, or Matthew 5:17-19 where till heaven and earth pass not ONE jot or tittle shall pass from the law till all is accomplished?

Do you care about this listed?

I do not think you care one bit!

I don't know about you, but I choose to believe in a Bible that does not contradict itself. If I were to believe like you, and if I was honest with myself, I would be FORCED to conclude that the Bible is FULL of contradictions--and this is PRECISELY what the atheists love!

This is EXACTLY why I have chosen to be an Adventist in my heart, because it is the only religion that has made the Bible make sense for me. Otherwise, if it wasn't for Christianity from an Adventist perspective, I would be out in the world. Adventism is what compels me to be a Christian.

Revelation 14:6-12 · Mar 23, 2012

Revelation 14:6-12 said:
...I also will ask you ..., which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you...

Who is Israel of Hosea 11:1 and Matthew 2:15?

With whom was the New Covenant specifically to be made with in Jeremiah 31:31-33, and as recited in Hebrews 8:8-10, 10:16?

listed said:
OK if the NC is only to include the Israelites, What about this passage -

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

listed said:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

And this one -

23And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

And what about the historical records of Acts? I don't read there that any Gentile joined themselves to the covanant made with Israel as the subverters were demanding. In fact the Apostles said they had no such authority and didn't back them. The only way into that covenant was through circumcision as the subverters demanded. The Gentile Christians never entered that covenant.

Seeing that the questions asked [above] were not answered directly in reply, they shall be answered by the scriptures themselves:

Who is Israel of Hosea 11:1 and Matthew 2:15?

Christ Jesus is Israel of Hosea 11:1, Matthew 2:15:

When Israel [was] a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. Hosea 11:1

And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. Matthew 2:4

And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. Matthew 2:13

When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: Matthew 2:14

And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Matthew 2:15

Let this be clear, for it becomes apparent why this is important, in just a bit:

With whom was the New Covenant specifically to be made with in Jeremiah 31:31-33, and as recited in Hebrews 8:8-10, 10:16?

The New Covenant is only made with the House of Israel/Judah:

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jeremiah 31:31

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jeremiah 31:32

But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Hebrews 8:8

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Hebrews 8:9

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10

Let this be clear, and unequivocably witnessed and accepted by all, for it now becomes even more apparent why this is so:

For anyone "in CHRIST JESUS" [Romans 3:24, 8:1-2,39; 1 Corinthians 1:2,30, 4:15; Galatians 3:26,28, 6:15; Ephesians 2:6,13, 3:11; 1 Thessalonians 2:14; 2 Timothy 1:1, etc], He being True Israel, is then also in Him, Spiritual Israel, an "Israelite indeed" [John 1:47], having "no guile"[Psalms 32:2; John 1:47; 1 Peter 2:22, 3:10; Revelation 14:5], for again it is written:

"For all the promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen..."2 Corinthians 1:20;p

...not some of the promises, but rather "all", and,

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.Acts 4:12

...for a Christian (Matthew 16:24; John 8:11),

...is not of the flesh which cannot receive the spirit(Matthew 21:19, 23:38; Acts 13:46),

...but is of the spirit (Romans 2:28-29, 9:6-8; Galatians 4:29),

...and bringing forth the fruits thereof(Matthew 21:43; 1 Corinthians 7:19),

...obeying Him in His Commandments(Acts 5:32; Hebrews 5:9; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6)and,

...is indeed a child and a seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:7, 29),

...being faithful, like as faithful Abraham (Galatians 3:9),

...cut and grafted into the True Vine and stock (Romans 11:17-24,30-32),

...Christ Jesus, the True vine (John 15:5),

...of the spiritual circumcision made without hands keeping the Commandments (1 Corinthians 7:19; Colossians 2:11),

...a Spiritual Jew or Israel (Romans 2:29),

...and the Everlasting Covenant made only with them (Jeremiah 31:31-33; Ezekiel 36:22-27; Hebrews 8:8-10, 10:16, etc) and therefore,

...Christians, in loving faith, which produces the fruit of obedience, and the heartfelt desire to do the will of God, that we may please Him above our own selves; are to Keep His TEN COMMANDMENTS(which includes the 4th Commandment (Matthew 12:12), being the HOLY 7th Day of the LORD GOD): (Matthew 5:19,48, 19:17; John 14:15, 15:10,14; 1 John 2:3-4, 3:22, 5:2-3; Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, etc), because God has so loved us first, and sought to save us from our sins, by sending His Son Christ Jesus.

...to be continued...

Revelation 14:6-12 · Mar 23, 2012

Revelation 14:6-12 said:
...to be continued...

...continued...

In order for any 'gentile' or 'physical jew/israelite' ["according to the flesh" [Romans 9:3], "concerning the flesh" [Romans 9:5], "children of the flesh" [Romans 9:8], "after the flesh" [1 Corinthians 10:18]]to be a partaker of the promises, must of necessity be in Christ Jesus [walking in the light given by His grace], grafted into the true vine, be "children of the promise" [Romans 9:8], a "remnant" [Romans 9:27], which is "all israel" [Romans 11:26] that "shall be saved" [Romans 9:27], for it is written that:

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Romans 9:6

...which is why Paul prayed for Israel "after the flesh", that:

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. Romans 10:1

... for it is no good to simply be part of that Israel which are "children of the flesh" [though there was every "advantage" at the first for having been so [Romans 3:1-2]], for there is no 'salvation by special relation', ie. there is no such thing as Salvation simply by being a physical Jew, or any other.

One is not born of the flesh 'saved', one is not 'saved': by simply being born by the right people [2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th generation is not the criteria [are you listening, children of SDA parents?]; each must have an individual relationship with God and Christ Jesus], being in the right religion, having the 'right' skin color [God is no repsecter of persons, and all are of Adam and Noah], being of a certain age, height, weight, intelligence, wealth, or eating and drinking the right things, or even necessarily knowing the right doctrines [though it helps, even as the advantage of the oracles of God was to Israel; therefore one is not saved simply by being Seventh Day Adventist, and the parable of Luke 16 applies directly to us in this our day - I hope all are listening]; etc.

[There will be some who will have never even have heard of the name Christ Jesus, but will be 'saved' by Him and His Blood [God is Just and His Judgment True], and they walked in the light they were given them: And [one] shall say unto him, What [are] these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, [Those] with which I was wounded [in] the house of my friends. Zechariah 13:6]

Christ Jesus over and over again refuted such ideas [salvation by simply being born of the right religion, parents, etc], and the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus is such an example [see Luke 16], and stated throughout the scripture.

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Matthew 3:9

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Luke 3:8

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. John 8:39 [see Genesis 26:5]

...and why was some [that "part"] of Israel "cut off" so - it is because of unbelief, un-faith, they were not truly 'israel after the spirit', but only 'after the flesh' [I know some will complain of the color, but it is for a purpose]:

For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches. Romans 11:16

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Romans 11:17

Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Romans 11:18

Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Romans 11:19

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: Romans 11:20

For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. Romans 11:21

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; buttoward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Romans 11:22

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. Romans 11:23

For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree? Romans 11:24

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Romans 11:25

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Romans 11:26

... [and so on]...

The passages of Romans 11 are not speaking of 'replacement theology' as constantly being expounded by those who want Christ Jesus to have Two Brides... a literal physical Israel and a spiritual Church..., for Scripture knows no such thing.

It is not a false [and foisted] 'replacement theology' as so expounded and propped up as a straw man, but it is the Continuance of True and Faithful Believing Israel, while unfaithful were cut out until they should believe... and could only be grafted in again through faith.

Christ Jesus has one bride, Faithful Israel who is the Church [even that Remnant of the Church in the wilderness [This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: Acts 7:38] who continued to believe on Him [Simeon and Anna, John the Baptist, Mary, Joseph, etc], and those amongst the Gentiles and nations who have since then come to believe in Him, and so worship Him [like the Magi, etc]].

Believing Israel: Those who were faithful and believing among the Jews [Peter, James, John, Apostles, Disciples who continued with Him, Mary, Martha, etc...], or became so [Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimathea, certain rulers, later Paul, etc.], continued to be of True Israel, and while others who were unfaithful and unbelieving [many Pharisees, Saducees, scribes, leaders, Caiphas, Judas, etc] were those unbelieving branches that were "cut off" and out of Israel [and many claimed to be physically descended from Abraham, etc, but Christ Jesus clearly said that this is not what counts... "think not to say within yourselves...", and the Parable of the Rich Man And Lazarus is also directly pointing this out, it is a matter of "faith", not bloodline.], while those of the Gentiles who came to believe and have faith in Christ Jesus [Israel], they were "grafted into" and with Believing Israel [Luke, whole cities, Cornelius and his household, etc.].

For others they attempt to split the houses, Judah and Israel...

...but again, Scripture says:

And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Isaiah 8:14

... to be continued...

Revelation 14:6-12 · Mar 23, 2012

Revelation 14:6-12 said:
... to be continued...

...continued...

Therefore, we conclude with Paul, that:

"Israel after the flesh" [1 Corinthians 10:18] failed to obtain... for the covenant that they had made with God ["...All that the LORD hath spoken we will do..." [Exodus 19:8; 24:3,7;p]], was "weak through the flesh" [Romans 8:3;p], and God "finding fault with them" [the peoples, "Israel after the flesh", then failed to attain unto the promises [Romans 11:7], because of unbelief and sin and they "continued not" in the Covenant of God; Hebrews 8:8-9] and so their "house" was "left unto" them "desolate" [Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35] for Jesus Christ was a "...a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel..." [Israel 8:14;p].

When Paul says that "And so all Israel shall be saved..." [Romans 11:26;p], he is speaking of the "whosoever" that is "in Christ Jesus", and for those who are "Israel after the flesh", Paul says, "might be saved" [Romans 10:1] if they too also choose to believe on/in Christ Jesus [Acts 15:11; Romans 3:22; Galatians 3:22; 1 Timothy 1:16, etc], for the Jews then who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ continued in the Grace of God and were still remaining in the Olive Tree, a "remnant" [Romans 9:27, 11:5; Isaiah 10:22], but they which believed not on the Lord Jesus Christ, were cut off [Romans 11:1-36].

"Israel after the flesh" however can still be grafted back into the True Stock if they will now yet believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the only Way [John 14:6].

And so, as we see in Romans 9, the 'gentiles' must partake of the covenant in Christ Jesus:

As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. Romans 9:25

And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Romans 9:26

Which was given here:

Then said [God], Call his name Loammi: for ye [are] not my people, and I will not be your [God]. Hosea 1:9

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God. Hosea 1:10

Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great [shall be] the day of Jezreel. Hosea 1:11

Notice carefully, please:

Jews were to believe: And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou [art] God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: Acts 4:24

Gentiles were to believe: And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Acts 14:15

Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Acts 14:16

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Acts 17:30

They too are to take hold of Him, and Keep His Sabbath:

For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11

Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Isaiah 56:6

Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. Isaiah 56:7

The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather [others] to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. Isaiah 56:8

See the context of Isaiah 56, it is in the context of the New Covenant, and in Christ Jesus:

Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation [is] near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. Isaiah 56:1

...ended for now...

Lysimachus · Mar 23, 2012

Those scriptures are irrefutable Revelation 14:6-12. Don't be surprised if I end up plagiarizing all your stuff one day.

JK

P.S. Do you have a website where you have all of this info documented? Like everything you've ever written with the scriptures in color format as you have there.

listed · Mar 24, 2012

tzadik said:
The things that I do for the "NT only" people...

Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

We're not gonna fight over "which commandment or commandments they are referring to". They are God's commandments. Whether one or 1,000. So the question remains...

When He tells us to Keep God's Commandments...
Are we supposed to keep His Commandment (s) without sin, without failing in any of them???

OK so you can keep your code and OT law demands if you like, Fine by me. Just don't try and push the um ... er well stuff off on others, OK.

What Commandment did God say to; "Remember", that the world wants to forget? (4)

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