Trying to recconcile two accounts rightly

Fireinfolding · Dec 20, 2011

Ok, Ive been trying to recconcile two accounts which are both in the context of Christ (Micah 5:2 which is spoken of in Mat 2:6) and the mention of the Assyrian in the very same context (along with the seven shepherd and eight principal men). But also (as following through the same context elsewhere) the sign given to the house of David too, because in the context of Christ it makes mention of two kings (there). So I am trying to siphon these into one study adressing both places which appear to be speaking within the same context of Christ and I cannot yet see to what either are referring to

These two accounts (you can go back and read them)

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me (Christ) that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. (see Mat 2:6 )

But its the next verse...

Mic 5:5 And this man (Christ) shall be the peace, ((when)) the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

Then here likewise, a sign given To the house of David (of Christ)

But looking at this specifically...

Isaiah 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Isaiah 7:17 The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.

To what do these refer can someone show me verses which speak in accord with the above two?

Isatis · Dec 20, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
Isaiah 7:6 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Isaiah 7:7 The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.

You've quoted Isaiah 7 verses "16" and "17" not 6 and 7.

Fireinfolding · Dec 20, 2011

Isatis said:
You've quoted Isaiah 7 verses "16" and "17" not 6 and 7.

Hey thanks, even copy pasting the dumb things I screw up ^_^

I'll edit, thanks for bringing that to my attention

Isatis · Dec 20, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
Hey thanks, even copy pasting the dumb things I screw up

I'll edit, thanks for bringing that to my attention

your welcome.

How do you color code the scripture? What are you showing in blue, red, black?

Fireinfolding · Dec 20, 2011

Isatis said:
your welcome.

How do you color code the scripture? What are you showing in blue, red, black?

How do I or why do I? Or both?

How, is copy pasting the verse into the reply box, then fully highlighting which words I want a certain color and choosing it in the pull down by that big ol' A (with a black border under it). and do the same with other verses (just pick another color). Black is simply (uncolored and unemphasized) to me.

Why, would be it helps me see better, which isnt always the case for others reading them, some like them and some hate them. I have bad eyes, sometimes I blow up the text much larger and then reduce the size to post on the forum, and sometimes I blow up others text so I can read them better.

I lose my eyesight at various times, which has been very temporary (so far) but I cant see (in those times ) a 5 INCH letter if it was before me.

So my posting style can get on folks nerves, but the blind or near blind like me love it ^_^

Sorta like my freind Angelmom (here) she is actually legally blind without her glasses, and it helps her too. So I feel good, Im not alone lol

God bless, a little more info then you asked

Isatis · Dec 20, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
How do I or why do I? Or both?

How, is copy pasting the verse into the reply box, then fully highlighting which words I want a certain color and choosing it in the pull down by that big ol' A (with a black border under it). and do the same with other verses (just pick another color). Black is simply (uncolored and unemphasized) to me.

Why, would be it helps me see better, which isnt always the case for others reading them, some like them and some hate them. I have bad eyes, sometimes I blow up the text much larger and then reduce the size to post on the forum, and sometimes I blow up others text so I can read them better.

I lose my eyesight at various times, which has been very temporary (so far) but I cant see (in those times ) a 5 INCH letter if it was before me.

So my posting style can get on folks nerves, but the blind or near blind like me love it Sorta like my freind Angelmom (here) she is actually legally blind without her glasses, and it helps her too. So I feel good, Im not alone lol

God bless, a little more info then you asked

not "why" but "how". I actually like it

Was just curious to know what each color meant so I can better understand what you're trying to show in blue, red and black.
See I first thought that red color was for Jesus but then realized I was wrong and well after a few attempts to decipher your color codes, I thought I should simply ask you.

I have the NASB Inductive Bible Study but wouldn't color code my Bible because if I follow their instructions my Bible will look like a Picasso painting. ^_^

Fireinfolding · Dec 20, 2011

Isatis said:
not "why" but "how". I actually like it
Was just curious to know what each color meant so I can better understand what you're trying to show in blue, red and black.
See I first thought that red color was for Jesus but then realized I was wrong and well after a few attempts to decipher your color codes, I thought I should simply ask you.

I have the NASB Inductive Bible Study but wouldn't color code my Bible because if I follow their instructions my Bible will look like a Picasso painting.

Oh I do the same to paper bibles, they look like pages made of rainbows ^_^

But there for "easy finding" according to how my mind sorta shuffles them around LOL

Yeah folks have asked me that before, I sorta emphasized "for myself" where key points in the verse (from where I'd like a response) to. Try not to think about it, I will give you a headache, I have my own rythme and reason for the strange things I do

For example (lets makes this picture worse lol)

Two accounts at the place where Christ would come forth (two books)

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me (Christ) that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. (see Mat 2:6 )

So above is speaking to "OUT OF" thee (Bethlehem) its placement is in Mat 2:6, WHOSE GOINGS FORTH (there is speaking of he who was foretold)

But its the next verse...

Mic 5:5 And this man (Christ) shall be the peace, ((when)) the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

The above placement of peace to Christ (our prince of peace) and the WHEN is emphasized (in respects to the Assyrian) INTO our land and the THEN shall we (pretty obvious) raise against him seven AND eight... I want to know to whom these apply. The AND (only) is highlighted because theres too many highlight in there lol

Then here...

Then here likewise, a sign given To the house of David (of Christ)

But looking at this specifically...

Isaiah 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Isaiah 7:17 The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.

Theres THE BEFORE the child and the WHEN'S and THEN'S and BEFORE'S Given its a sign to the house of David (he virgin sign) it speaks of the land THOU abhorrest and TWO kings (forsaking it). And there (also) is found the King of Assyria but prior mentions days that have NOT come and FROM which day in respects to Ephraim departed Judah.

So (to me) they make sense so when given a verse (or verses) I can compare them to what it is I am looking for or how it fits since both of these (even though from different books) speaks to one context in Christ.

This one has always bugged me, and give me numbers and I only get fustrated but I still want to see if I can catch it, if the right person can show it to me in a way I can grasp it.

Now, arent you so glad you asked? ^_^

(not)

It works with prophecy though, you can do it with Jesus travels as a child and how it lays out with the OUT OF and INTO of places, like Egypt, so I am TRYING it here, still working in this obviously not getting to far lol

Maybe I will lose less hair on this one soon

Isatis · Dec 20, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
Now, arent you so glad you asked? (not)

fully understood what ya meant.

Fireinfolding · Dec 20, 2011

Much easier just to think of me as a big kid with cyber crayons

Now, to my question,

For starters The seven shepherds, and eight principal men (in the one verse) and the land forsaken of both kings (in the other verse)... this is what I want to know.

Can you assist me here or what? lol

Isatis · Dec 20, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
Much easier just to think of me as a big kid with cyber crayons

Now, to my question,

For starters The seven shepherds, and eight principal men (in the one verse) and the land forsaken of both kings (in the other verse)... this is what I want to know.

Can you assist me here or what? lol

I am working on it.

Is Isaiah 7:16 referring to Jesus or Isaiahs son Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz? (Is 8:3) :scratch:

Was looking at my Study Bible and here is what I read on Isaiah 7:16
For before: similar prophecies were spoken of the Child's birth and Isaiah's other son Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz (8:3): Israel and Syria would be destroyed before this child and Isaiah's son would reach maturity (see 8:4 where Syria is referred to as Damascus and Israel as Samaria)

So when I read this, I understand that this prophecy is about Jesus and Isaiah's son. This means that this prophecy had one level of fulfillment in the immediate future and a final fulfillment many years later.
It is not uncommon for prophecy to have both temporary immediate fulfillment and future eternal fulfillment.

Fireinfolding · Dec 20, 2011

I dont understand, so I cant say... just forget about it. No biggy, was so curious I actually went to the internet and didnt find anything that made it clearer.

Thanks though

Isatis · Dec 20, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
I dont understand, so I cant say... just forget about it. No biggy, was so curious I actually went to the internet and didnt find anything that made it clearer.

Thanks though

Yes, there are a few studies on Internet and one specifically said that Is 7:16 was about Isaiah's son, not Jesus.
I will spend more time on all those scriptures and will come back if I can find answers to your questions.

God bless!

Fireinfolding · Dec 20, 2011

Thanks, Im going to post it somewhere else so you can all race each other.

Isatis · Dec 20, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
Thanks, Im going to post it somewhere else so you can all race each other.

ROFLOL

Fireinfolding · Dec 21, 2011

Not one bite at CARM yet on this one either Isatis ...I am supposing this one is sorta a difficult one. It must be, because folks like to pass out answers when they have them, which is more fun then saying, "I havent a clue" ^_^

Well... I sure dont mind saying it, I do that alot lol

Fireinfolding · Dec 21, 2011

Well, I got one reply over there, but basically commentary on the context (I wasnt asking about, just creating)... you know....the correcting words thing, like virgin (for young unmarried woman) and that sorta thing. No comment yet on the seven shepherd and eight principal men and the other.

I asked again more directly this time, "who are the seven shepherds and eight principal men" in Micah and the "both kings" in Isaiah

That might work better....

When you dont post the context they tell ya to read it in context (always assuming you didnt). When you post the context, they comment on the context and not the question, and end up with a thousand page essay on everything except what you are looking for.

This is bugging me lol

Isatis · Dec 22, 2011

Hi!

Fireinfolding said:
I asked again more directly this time, "who are the seven shepherds and eight principal men" in Micah and the "both kings" in Isaiah

Seven sheperds and eight principal men
Who are these seven shepherds and eight principal men that Micah 5:5 mentions?

Both kings
Isaiah 7:16 - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible, New Testament Commentary

InSpiritInTruth · Dec 22, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
Well, I got one reply over there, but basically commentary on the context (I wasnt asking about, just creating)... you know....the correcting words thing, like virgin (for young unmarried woman) and that sorta thing. No comment yet on the seven shepherd and eight principal men and the other.

I asked again more directly this time, "who are the seven shepherds and eight principal men" in Micah and the "both kings" in Isaiah

That might work better....

When you dont post the context they tell ya to read it in context (always assuming you didnt). When you post the context, they comment on the context and not the question, and end up with a thousand page essay on everything except what you are looking for.

This is bugging me lol

Don't be pullin your hair out over things you don't understand girl friend. I suppose if we all did that we would all be bald headed.

Could the 7 shepherds have something to do with the 7 eyes on one stone?

And could the eight principle men(heads of the tribes) be of the 7?

And perhaps the 2 kings have something to do with a location or direction, like north and south rather than a certain country on the map?

I'm not sure Fire, but you know me, I tend to lean more to the spiritual meaning over that of the literal. ^_^

Peace.

Fireinfolding · Dec 22, 2011

Isatis said:
Hi!

Seven sheperds and eight principal men
Who are these seven shepherds and eight principal men that Micah 5:5 mentions?

Both kings
Isaiah 7:16 - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible, New Testament Commentary

Thanks for the references Isatis, the first seems clearer then the second, gotta place these right, I just find scripture can be so exact when caught verse by verse (as all the others can be found flowing one into another perfectly) but these two are really throwing me off ^_^

Thanks for the food for thought

Fireinfolding · Dec 22, 2011

InSpiritInTruth said:
Don't be pullin your hair out over things you don't understand girl friend. I suppose if we all did that we would all be bald headed.

Could the 7 shepherds have something to do with the 7 eyes on one stone?

And could the eight principle men(heads of the tribes) be of the 7?

And perhaps the 2 kings have something to do with a location or direction, like north and south rather than a certain country on the map?

I'm not sure Fire, but you know me, I tend to lean more to the spiritual meaning over that of the literal.

Peace.

Bro, its the first way I would reason, looking up the sevens and eights ^_^

and there is repeat paterns with 2's, 5's and 7's and 8's but catching them aright that my understanding might be fruitful is a whole different thing. Otherwise I only have matching numbers but no understanding ^_^

But these are accompanied by "before's", "when's" and "then's" which I am trying to match up so I can know (by the scripture which included these) that I am catching it right.

Once I find the natural patern (as laid out) then I can compare freely, but if I skip "that step" God only knows where I will end up (in la la land) and completely unequipped to show anything "in accord" with it even though its in another "manner".

Get what I am saying bro? I cannot springboard from one place (the natural patern) to the other (spiritual) without the first laid out in sight so that I can examine it and receive the other. Its how my brain with my (now) "hairless head" works lol

I will try to squish into it what you guys have given me to see if I can make the verses make sense to me in someway lol

Its just in both of them (and this) after pages of study were written down and flowing together beautifully... I hit a rut in those two places, and cant yet jump those two hurdles (in order to keep "flowing"). And commentary verses a direct scripture makes matters worse for me not better, its always a scripture (and the way it might be worded at any key place) that equips me aright, this I know (for me) is true.

I'll see if I can play around with what you guys gave me, make it work somehow with how the other verses speak.

Thanks bro, God bless you

Trying to recconcile two accounts rightly

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