Why does God advocate slavery?

MasterZ · Nov 15, 2011

Hello, dear Christians. May I please ask you too look at this bible verses, then explain to me why a good God would advocate slavery? I look forward to your answers.

[FONT=arial, Helvetica]Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20: [/FONT]
[bible][FONT=arial, Helvetica]If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. [/FONT][/bible]
So God not only advocates slavery, but also the beating of slaves, as long as they don't die.

[FONT=arial, Helvetica] Exodus Chapter 21, verse 32:

[bible]If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned. [/bible]
The bible clearly states that a slave is worth thirty shekels of silver, apparently regardless of the inflation or even the currency, too.

[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Helvetica] Leviticus Chapter 22, verse 10:
[bible]No one outside a priest's family may eat the sacred offering, nor may the guest of a priest or his hired worker eat it. But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food. [/bible][/FONT]
In this verse, the bible even states that it is okay to enslave someone from the very day of his birth.

Titus, chapter 2 verse 9:
[bible]Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity. [/bible]
Yet another verse in which God advocates slavery.

Of course you may say that this verses where written in another time, and that the new testament contradicts them. Well, apparently, it doesn't:

[FONT=arial, Helvetica] Luke, Chapter 7, verse 2:
[bible]Now a centurion had a slave who was dear to him, who was sick and at the point of death. When he heard of Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his slave. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him earnestly, saying, "He is worthy to have you do this for him, for he loves our nation, and he built us our synagogue." And Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying to him, "Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. For I am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come,' and he comes; and to my slave, 'Do this,' and he does it." When Jesus heard this he marveled at him, and turned and said to the multitude that followed him, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith." And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the slave well. [/bible][/FONT]
Why didn't Jesus free the slave? Apparently, he has no problem with slavery, either.

I posted my question before, but here is it again: Why does God defend slavery if he is a good and just God? This means that God either isn't just and good, or that slavery itself is good. Which of the two statements is true?

EDIT: I am sorry, but I thought I used the "bible" tags in the right way. Does my browser just portray them wrong, or did I do something wrong about the formating?

joey_downunder · Nov 15, 2011

Master Z, like many other atheists who bring up this topic you are quoting those bible verses out of context. God made these commandments to ensure that the Jew treated their slaves more like employees NOT beasts of burden. Those slaves would be far better treated than many poorly paid overworked people in the 21st century. They would have had accomodation and meals provided for them and their family.

MasterZ · Nov 15, 2011

Master Z, like many other atheists who bring up this topic you are quoting those bible verses out of context. God made these commandments to ensure that the Jew treated their slaves more like employees NOT beasts of burden.

Then why didnt he just say treat your slaves like employees? Why does he still allow them to beat their slaves?
Maybe the bible was a huge improvement when it came to the rights of slaves in the period in which it was written, but this period is over, and the bible never considers this. If it was for the bible, we would still have slavery.

Those slaves would be far better treated than many poorly paid overworked people in the 21st century. They would have had accomodation and meals provided for them and their family.

They still have no freedom. The master can beat them as he wishes, he can sell them and even rape them. Do you think that slavery is okay? I hope not.

joey_downunder · Nov 15, 2011

MasterZ said:
Then why didnt he just say treat your slaves like employees? Why does he still allow them to beat their slaves?

It is a difficult thing for the modern mind to understand. Different culture, different values, customs etc. These days employees would be punished via strong words, demotion or being fired.

They still have no freedom. The master can beat them as he wishes, he can sell them and even rape them. Do you think that slavery is okay? I hope not.

It would be helpful for you to look at other cultures at that time and how they dealt with their women who were raped. Some killed raped women and others sold them into prostitution. Who looked after raped women better - pagans or Jews (if they followed God's commandments)?

Matariki · Nov 15, 2011

Slavery in the OT

May I also note that it is pointless to critique the bible or other scriptures until you have read them within their written context.

Laws applying to slaves General treatment of slaves
The law protected slaves from being abused by their masters:

Killing a slave merited punishment.1 (Ex 21:20)

Permanently injured slaves had to be set free (Ex 21:26-27)

Slaves who ran away from oppressive masters were effectively freed (Dt 23:15-16)

The law also gave slaves a day of rest every week (Ex 20:10, Dt 5:14).

Hebrew slaves

Hebrews could become slaves of a fellow Hebrew if they committed a crime such as theft and had no other way of paying the fine (Ex 22:1-3) or if they became impoverished and sold themselves and/or their family into slavery. (See also Did slavery take advantage of the poor? below.) Kidnapping someone and selling them into slavery was forbidden (Dt 24:7).
When one Hebrew owned another Hebrew as a slave, the law commanded lenient treatment:

Slaves were to be treated as hired workers, not slaves (Lev 25:39-43)

All slaves were to be freed after six years (Ex 21:2, Dt 15:12)

Freed slaves were to be liberally supplied with grain, wine and livestock (Dt 15:12-15)

Every fiftieth year (the year of jubilee), all Hebrew slaves were to be freed, even those owned by foreigners (Lev 25:10, 47-54)

In special cases, slaves could choose to remain with their masters if they felt it was in their best interests (Dt 15:16-17).
If a Hebrew sold himself as a slave to a foreigner, he reserved the right to buy his freedom (Lev 25:47-49) and was still to be treated as a hired man (Lev 25:53).

Foreign slaves

While foreign slaves could be made slaves for life, the laws regarding the general treatment of slaves applied to them as well (Lev 24:22, Num 15:15-16). The law made it clear that foreigners were not inferiors who could be mistreated (Ex 23:9); instead they were to be loved just as fellow Israelites were (Lev 19:33-34). For more information, see the article on Gentiles in the OT.

Female slaves

In some cases, fathers could sell their daughters as a maidservant and wife. Since they were then married to their master, they were not automatically set free after six years (though unmarried female slaves were freed, as Dt 15:12 explicitly states). However, they were still protected by the law:

If the husband divorced his wife, the law labelled it "unfair treatment" and allowed for her to be freed (Ex 21:8)

If someone bought a wife for his son, he was to treat her as his daughter (Ex 21:9)

Neglected wives were automatically freed (Ex 21:10-11)

Captives of war apparently became slaves, and men could choose to marry female captives. There were similar laws for the protection of these women, even though they would have been in the lowest class of society:

Captive women were given a month to mourn their families and adjust to their new home before marrying (Dt 21:13)

If divorced by their husband, they were freed (Dt 21:14)

They could not be sold to anyone else (Dt 21:14)

See also Were female slaves raped? below.

Specific objections Dt 21:10-11: Were female slaves raped?
The law explicitly condemned all of the following:

Rape (Dt 22:25-27)

Prostitution (23:17-18)

Sex outside of marriage, whether consensual or not (Ex 22:16-17, Dt 22:28-29)

Sex with a slave who was betrothed or married to someone else (Lev 19:20-22)

Therefore any forced intercourse would have been against both the letter and the spirit of the law.

Ex 21:20-21: Could masters beat slaves to death?

The NIV translates Ex 21:21 as, "...but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property." While there is an argument for this translation,2 it is not necessarily the correct translation, so I am using the standard meaning of "he is not to be punished if the slave survives for a day or two."
Most likely, this law was intended to distinguish between cases where a slave died as a direct result of their master's mistreatment and where they died of natural causes. It could of course be the case that a slave was severely beaten but didn't succumb to their injuries for a few days. In that situation, the case could have been brought before the priests and they could have used common sense and ruled that it was murder (cf. Dt 17:8-11). One should keep in mind that the laws given in the OT are examples, not legalese. For instance, Ex. 21:33-34 mentions only an ox or donkey falling into a pit, but that hardly means that if another animal fell into someone's pit the owner wouldn't receive compensation.

Lev 25:39: Did slavery take advantage of the poor?

Skeptics have objected that poverty would force people to sell themselves as slaves; impovershed Hebrews could not then be said to have chosen slavery of their own free will. However, the law provided several safety nets for the poor within society:

Gleanings left over from harvest were left for the poor to pick up (Dt 24:19-21)

Towns had the equivalent of food pantries for the poor, which were stocked using tithes (Dt 14:28-29)

People were commanded to lend generously to the poor and provide for them (Dt 15:7-11, Lev 25:35-37), without charging interest (Ex 22:25)

Finally, the law was adamant about providing justice for the poor and not taking advantage of them (Dt 27:19, Ex 22:22-27). Only under extreme circumstances would someone be forced to sell themselves into slavery because of their poverty. If the Israelites had followed the law faithfully, there would not have been any financial need at all (Dt 15:4-5).

Ex 21:5-6, Dt 15:16-17: Were slaves forced to say they "loved" their masters and/or serve them for life?

The law plainly states that Hebrew slaves were to be freed after serving six years (Ex 21:2, Dt 15:12). If a slave wished to remain, it was his free choice. Since Hebrews typically became slaves only due to poverty, some may have felt they were better off working for a rich family and being provided for rather than struggling to make it on their own (cf. Dt 15:16).
Slaves weren't forced to say they loved their masters if they wanted to stay; the speech given in Exodus 21:5 is only an example. A parallel passage in Deuteronomy 15:16 only has the slave saying he doesn't want to leave.
As for whether slaves could be forced into lifelong slavery, Exodus 21:6 says the ceremony for lifelong slaves was to take place in front of a judge. Slaves had to publicly state their intention to remain as slaves; their master couldn't lie and say they'd expressed their intentions privately. While an evil master could force his slaves to make the proclamation by threatening them, it was the responsibility of the priests/judges and the community at large to observe masters' treatment of their slaves (cf. Lev 25:53). This observation was also in their best interests, since one person's disobedience brought guilt on those who knew what was going on and failed to do anything about it (Lev 19:17), which in turn would result in adverse consequences for the entire community (Dt 11:26-28).

Footnotes

1. What punishment was given to a master who killed a slave? In an earlier version of this article, I said it was death, based on Ex 21:12. However, I don't think this is necessarily the case. For one, the preceding verses 21:12-17 list multiple crimes that were explicitly punishable by death, yet 21:20 does not explicitly say the master should be put to death. For another, 21:28-32 says that when the owner of an ox is culpable for its goring someone to death, he is to be killed, but if the victim was a slave, he is only subject to a fine. (Back to article)

2. I received this explanation from GotQuestions.org (quoted with permission):
The Hebrew word translated "gets up" in the NIV, "remains alive" in the NKJV, and "survives" in the NASB literally means "arise, endure, remain, raise up". So, the differences in translation result from debate on whether the verb in this passage means to literally "stand up" or metaphorically to "remain" as in stay alive. I lean towards the meaning of "live" taken by the NKJV and NAS. Punishment of slaves was considered the right of the owner (Pr 10:13; 13:24), but this did not allow for violence. An owner who caused the death of a slave was to be punished (Ex 21:20). If the slave lived a few days it was evidence that the owner had no intent to kill. Any permanent injury brought freedom to the slave (Ex 21:26-27). The master's power over the slave was limited, which made these laws unprecedented in the ancient world.

MasterZ · Nov 15, 2011

I know that the bible was written in a different time, for a different culture, but till today, it still has followers who claim that everything inside the bible is true. Who says that some verses from the bible are meant to be applicated till today, while others are to be ignored because they are not appropriate for our time? According to you, we can pretty much ignore anything inside the bible if it was written for a different set of values, but this means that we have to ignore the bible altogether.

Faulty · Nov 15, 2011

The scriptures neither condones nor condems it. It merely addresses it as a reality in the world, even today. He even told us, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." John 8:34-36

On one hand, you have Paul returning the slave to Onesimus to Philemon, in the letter that bears the name 'Philemon', and on the other he tells slaves to be content where they are, but if they are able to gain freedom, to do so.

Were you a slave when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.) For he who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of Christ.
1 Cor 7:21-22

drich0150 · Nov 15, 2011

MasterZ said:
Hello, dear Christians. May I please ask you too look at this bible verses, then explain to me why a good God would advocate slavery? I look forward to your answers.

[FONT=arial, Helvetica]Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20: [/FONT]
[bible][FONT=arial, Helvetica]If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. [/FONT][/bible]
So God not only advocates slavery, but also the beating of slaves, as long as they don't die.

[FONT=arial, Helvetica]Exodus Chapter 21, verse 32:[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, Helvetica][bible]If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned. [/bible][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Helvetica]The bible clearly states that a slave is worth thirty shekels of silver, apparently regardless of the inflation or even the currency, too.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, Helvetica]Leviticus Chapter 22, verse 10: [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Helvetica][bible]No one outside a priest's family may eat the sacred offering, nor may the guest of a priest or his hired worker eat it. But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food. [/bible][/FONT]
In this verse, the bible even states that it is okay to enslave someone from the very day of his birth.

Titus, chapter 2 verse 9:
[bible]Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity. [/bible]
Yet another verse in which God advocates slavery.

Of course you may say that this verses where written in another time, and that the new testament contradicts them. Well, apparently, it doesn't:

[FONT=arial, Helvetica]Luke, Chapter 7, verse 2: [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, Helvetica][bible]Now a centurion had a slave who was dear to him, who was sick and at the point of death. When he heard of Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his slave. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him earnestly, saying, "He is worthy to have you do this for him, for he loves our nation, and he built us our synagogue." And Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying to him, "Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. For I am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come,' and he comes; and to my slave, 'Do this,' and he does it." When Jesus heard this he marveled at him, and turned and said to the multitude that followed him, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith." And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the slave well. [/bible][/FONT]
Why didn't Jesus free the slave? Apparently, he has no problem with slavery, either.

I posted my question before, but here is it again: Why does God defend slavery if he is a good and just God? This means that God either isn't just and good, or that slavery itself is good. Which of the two statements is true?

EDIT: I am sorry, but I thought I used the "bible" tags in the right way. Does my browser just portray them wrong, or did I do something wrong about the formating?

Because slavery as God "advocates" it is not a sin.

MasterZ · Nov 15, 2011

The scriptures neither condones nor condems it. It merely addresses it as a reality in the world, even today.

It presents laws on how to treat slaves, this means that it allows slavery.

drich0150 said:
Because slavery as God "advocates" it is not a sin.

It is not a sin to rob a person of his freedom, seperate him from his family and beat him if he refuses to work without payment? I highly doubt this.

GrayAngel · Nov 15, 2011

You're wrong. The Bible does not advocate slavery, or the beating of slaves. You're reading the scriptures wrong. God's laws regarding slavery are similar to His laws regarding divorce, which He allows but detests. To save time, I'll copy and paste a post I had made in a previous topic:

I Corinthians 7:5-9 - Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Collossians 4:1 - Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

The Bible is not pro-slavery. The Bible does not encourage slavery, but it encourages the proper treatment of slaves. The only time slavery is portrayed in a positive light is when it is referring to being a slave to God/Christ/righteousness.

Notice that the masters are also said to be slaves to God. Remember the parable of the unmerciful servant whose master forgave his debts, but because he didn't do the same with his own servant, his own forgiveness was taken away (Matthew 18:23-34)?

This was a very serious warning. God watched to see how masters treated their slaves, and if they failed to show the same kindness to their own servants, God would give the masters the same treatment in the afterlife.

I Corinthians 7:21-24 - Were you a slave when you were called? Dont let it trouble youalthough if you can gain your freedom, do so. For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lords freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christs slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings. Brothers and sisters, each person, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.

I Peter 2:16 - Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as Gods slaves.

Here, we see that the Bible encourages people not to become slaves, or, for those who were already enslaved, to earn their freedom. God wanted His followers to keep themselves out of slavery, which was done by staying out of debt.

Proverbs 22:7 - The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

This proverb is a warning against borrowing money. A borrower literally could become a servant/slave if he couldn't pay off his debts.

In summary: The Bible is not pro-slavery, except slavery to God, and it is clear from the Bible that God wants freedom for His people. But because slavery was happening, God offered protections for the slaves to prevent them from being abused.

salida · Nov 15, 2011

The truth about slavery.

http://www.gotquestions.org/bible-slavery.html
http://www.bible-researcher.com/slavery.html
The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

joey_downunder · Nov 15, 2011

MasterZ said:
I know that the bible was written in a different time, for a different culture, but till today, it still has followers who claim that everything inside the bible is true. Who says that some verses from the bible are meant to be applicated till today, while others are to be ignored because they are not appropriate for our time? According to you, we can pretty much ignore anything inside the bible if it was written for a different set of values, but this means that we have to ignore the bible altogether.

No, what I am saying is you need to wear your thinking cap when reading the Bible and/or use good Bible commentaries to help you understand what the writer was saying when you have difficulties with a particular passage.

That also means you will have to stop trusting atheist/skeptic websites' (who deliberately misuse isolated Bible verses/passages to justify their unbelief) as a reliable source of information.

ebia · Nov 15, 2011

MasterZ said:
Hello, dear Christians. May I please ask you too look at this bible verses, then explain to me why a good God would advocate slavery? I look forward to your answers.

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:
[bible]If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. [/bible]
So God not only advocates slavery, but also the beating of slaves, as long as they don't die.

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 32:

[bible]If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned. [/bible]
The bible clearly states that a slave is worth thirty shekels of silver, apparently regardless of the inflation or even the currency, too.

Leviticus Chapter 22, verse 10:
[bible]No one outside a priest's family may eat the sacred offering, nor may the guest of a priest or his hired worker eat it. But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food. [/bible]
In this verse, the bible even states that it is okay to enslave someone from the very day of his birth.

Titus, chapter 2 verse 9:
[bible]Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity. [/bible]
Yet another verse in which God advocates slavery.

Of course you may say that this verses where written in another time, and that the new testament contradicts them. Well, apparently, it doesn't:

Luke, Chapter 7, verse 2:
[bible]Now a centurion had a slave who was dear to him, who was sick and at the point of death. When he heard of Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his slave. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him earnestly, saying, "He is worthy to have you do this for him, for he loves our nation, and he built us our synagogue." And Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying to him, "Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. For I am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come,' and he comes; and to my slave, 'Do this,' and he does it." When Jesus heard this he marveled at him, and turned and said to the multitude that followed him, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith." And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the slave well. [/bible]
Why didn't Jesus free the slave? Apparently, he has no problem with slavery, either.

I posted my question before, but here is it again: Why does God defend slavery if he is a good and just God? This means that God either isn't just and good, or that slavery itself is good. Which of the two statements is true?

EDIT: I am sorry, but I thought I used the "bible" tags in the right way. Does my browser just portray them wrong, or did I do something wrong about the formating?

The bible takes it for granted that slavery is not good. It's biggest overarching metaphor for what God is doing is releasing the world from slavery. The key story of the OT is that of rescue from slavery. That story then gives the key to understanding the NT story.

The bible is not a list of does and donts. It's the story of what God is doing. It could have banned slavery - but that wouldn't have changed anything. Most people now know that the way we are using fossil fuels is destroying the planet, but we don't just stop because we can't. Slavery was equally vital in the ancient economy. So instead the bible addresses it in stories - not least the big story of Exodus and the small story of Onesimus and Philemon.

GrayAngel · Nov 15, 2011

God didn't ban slavery for the same reason He didn't ban divorce. God issuing a command does not make people stop and listen. People who know the heart of God know His desires.

Jesus gave a large portion of His Sermon on the Mount as a way of expanding on the law, because He knew that people were using the letter of the law so they could feel safe, and He said that they were just as guilty because their hearts were causing them to sin.

For example: God said thou shalt not commit adultery. Does that mean it's okay to let your eyes wander, staring at members of the opposite sex with lustful thoughts? No. If God had said from the beginning, "Thou shalt not look at anyone with lustful eyes," would that have stopped them? No.

We know God's desires concerning slavery from scripture. He desired that His people would make their own living and avoid making themselves slaves (which was a choice back then), because God wanted them to be able to devote themselves fully to Him as their master.

Most of the Old Testament verses concerning slavery were given to promote the proper treatment of slaves, just as the OT verses concerning divorce were given to protect the divorced wife.

drich0150 · Nov 15, 2011

MasterZ said:
It is not a sin to rob a person of his freedom,

Click to expand...

Nope.No where in the bible does it say we are entitled to "freedom." This is not a God given right. Infact the opposite is true the bible tells us we are all slaves to one degree or another.

separate him from his family and beat him if he refuses to work without payment?

Click to expand...

Slaves or rather biblically defined/approved slavery does not allow for a man to work without any compensation.

I highly doubt this.

Click to expand...

What makes you doubt this? Do you have scripture? or do you just "feel" it is not right?

MasterZ · Nov 16, 2011

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

We still have slavery today, and this slavery isnt motivated by race, either. All over the world girls are forced into prostitution, and I dont mean forced in the sense of: they have no other way of getting their money, but in the sense of: they get abducted, are locked in a basement somewhere and get beaten if they refuse to work. In India, poor people who are indebted are sometimes forced to work, too, without having a real chance of being set free even if they do work hard enough to pay off their debts, simply because their captors threaten to kill them if they run away. These are just some forms of slavery that still plague the world, even today, and the bible apparently does nothing to condemn them. It doesnt make much of a practical difference whether you enslave someone because of the color of his skin or because he is poor.

No, what I am saying is you need to wear your thinking cap when reading the Bible and/or use good Bible commentaries to help you understand what the writer was saying when you have difficulties with a particular passage.

But theres no disclaimer about this in the bible, is it? The bible never states that you shouldnt take everything inside it at face value.

God didn't ban slavery for the same reason He didn't ban divorce. God issuing a command does not make people stop and listen.

If Gods commands dont prevent people from doing something, then why did he create the 10 commandments? If we apply your logic, the 10 commandments were futile. An omnipotent God would never make a futile attempt.

The basic issue is this: slavery is evil and god should have spoken-out against it, just as he spoke out against other evils, such as worshipping other gods. To tuck this issue into the context of the time or the idea that god allows it is really cowardly. You're just not facing-up to the reality here: your God did not stop slavery when he could have done so very easily, just as he stopped many other far less trivial things (working on the sabbath for example, eating pork). Please be honest with yourselves and face the reality of this situation: either God permits slavery or he doesn't (in which case someone other than God inspired the words in the OT).

I agree with you. In my eyes, if somebody says kill all jews, it still means kill all jews no matter how old this statement is.

Most people now know that the way we are using fossil fuels is destroying the planet, but we don't just stop because we can't.

Maybe we would stop it if the bible stated stop using fossil fuels or you will destroy the planet, but it doesnt.

Slavery was equally vital in the ancient economy.

Certainly not as much as some people claim. I can tell you, nowadays, slavery isnt economically important at all, even though there are 10 million slaves in India alone. Source: A crime so monstrous.

GrayAngel · Nov 16, 2011

MasterZ said:
If Gods commands dont prevent people from doing something, then why did he create the 10 commandments? If we apply your logic, the 10 commandments were futile. An omnipotent God would never make a futile attempt.

The Ten Commandments were ten easy rules for living that the Jews were expected to live by. They couldn't even follow those laws perfectly, and neither can we.

God picks His battles. Like I already pointed out, God hates divorce, but He didn't make a law against divorce because He knew they wouldn't listen. So instead, He made a law to protect the well-being of the wives who would be divorced. This is one of the laws Jesus addresses in the Sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 5:31-32 - It has been said, Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

BTW, when Jesus says, "It has been said," He's speaking of the watered down version of the law passed on by the teachers of the law. He's not speaking against the law itself.

Matthew 19:3-9 - Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?

Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.

Why then, they asked, did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?

Jesus replied, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.

suzybeezy · Nov 16, 2011

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FreeinChrist · Nov 20, 2011

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Why does God advocate slavery?

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