Lazarus and the gate in Luke 16:20

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 1, 2011

I have always been intrigued with the parable of the richman and lazarus and as I was reading thru it again, I began to wonder about the location of the gate Lazarus was laid at, and/or what it was symbolizing.

Then I saw how Acts 3:1 had a similar story story of a lame beggar asking for alms at a gate to the temple and Peter and John healed him.
Are there any views on the gate that others can contribute? Thanks

Luke 16:19 " There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
"gate"
occurs 275 times in 220 verses in the KJV
　
NKJV) Acts 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth [hour.]
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms from those who entered the temple;
10 Then they knew that it was he who sat begging alms at the Beautiful Gate of the temple; and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.

Tyndale · Nov 1, 2011

That may be a good question to put to Messianics or some Rabbis.....could be the gate Jesus entered on a donkey, could be the gate Zionists believe the Messiah will enter the Temple on day.....not too sure m8

Pythons · Nov 1, 2011

My guess was the gate for the Temple....
...As that was a beggars best chance for a donation.
...As LLOJ suggested.

Acts 3,2
And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple

patience7 · Nov 1, 2011

LittleLambofJesus said:
I have always been intrigued with the parable of the richman and lazarus and as I was reading thru it again, I began to wonder about the location of the gate Lazarus was laid at, and/or what it was symbolizing.

Then I saw how Acts 3:1 had a similar story story of a lame beggar asking for alms at a gate to the temple and Peter and John healed him.
Are there any views on the gate that others can contribute? Thanks

Luke 16:19 " There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
"gate"
occurs 275 times in 220 verses in the KJV
　
NKJV) Acts 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth [hour.]
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms from those who entered the temple;
10 Then they knew that it was he who sat begging alms at the Beautiful Gate of the temple; and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.

LLOJ - I had researched Acts 3:2 before and I found this information by Bishop K.C. Pillai. He was an Eastern man and taught Eastern customs.

Verse 2 (Psalm 84:10) "Be a doorkeeper." In the East, to be a doorkeeper is a position of honor and respect. Beggars looking for healing will sit at the temple gates. Psalm 84:10 accurately reads: "I would rather sit at the threshold in the house of my God." To sit in the gate of the temple is a humbling thing.
(Beggar) ask alms. Most beggars in the East are not there to ask money. They are in three places:
(1.) temple gate, (2.) highway sides, (3.) pools or rivers, riverbanks of holy rivers, because they believe that if an angel comes at a certain time and troubles the water and whoever gets into that spot shall be
healed from their disease. Example: Blind Bartamaeus sitting on the highway side. These people are imitation beggars. They carry these people to one of these three places in the morning, put a begging bowl in their hand and they hope that somebody will come and cure them. 75% of the beggars are people with incurable diseases. Thousands of people go to these three places every day. One might be a holy man and heal them. Their Hindu religion teaches since the doctors have given up hope there is no cure at all—only God is your hope. To obtain mercy from God you must knock out all your pride and come down as a beggar. If you humble yourself, God will have mercy on you sometime and you will be healed.
The real beggars in India will come to stop cars, back doors, stand in the shops (bazaars)—these are a minority of the beggars. Peter and John could tell by looking at his clothes and face that he wanted healing, not money. Example: Pool of Bethsma; blind Bartamaeus. The gate is called Beautiful. The man was healed at the gate of the temple. Not "held." It means he
was by their side or he accompanied them.
Verses 3-6 "Silver and gold have I none." Peter and John understood that if he were a real beggar he would have been in the backyard where he could get something to eat. This man was not there for a dime, he was there for a pair of legs.

I think I had looked this up for a post on another forum. I believe that the lame man knew that Peter and John were men of God from their reputation and when they fastened their eyes on him he was "expecting" to receive healing and that expectation was his belief that they could heal him by the power of God within them - therefore he received healing.

Standing_Ultraviolet · Nov 1, 2011

I think that the Bible says that Lazarus waited at "his gate", which would imply that it was the rich man's gate. There's not enough symbolism in the story of Lazarus and the rich man to make me think that it's any more than an element of the story.

Tavita · Nov 2, 2011

LittleLambofJesus said:
I have always been intrigued with the parable of the richman and lazarus and as I was reading thru it again, I began to wonder about the location of the gate Lazarus was laid at, and/or what it was symbolizing.

Then I saw how Acts 3:1 had a similar story story of a lame beggar asking for alms at a gate to the temple and Peter and John healed him.
Are there any views on the gate that others can contribute? Thanks

Luke 16:19 " There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
"gate"
occurs 275 times in 220 verses in the KJV
　
NKJV) Acts 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth [hour.]
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms from those who entered the temple;
10 Then they knew that it was he who sat begging alms at the Beautiful Gate of the temple; and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.

Lazarus is symbolic of the Gentiles who were not allowed to go beyond the Court of the Gentiles through the gate, or barrier, that separated them from the House of Judah. Even though they were considered proselytes they were still viewed as 'dogs' begging for crumbs/alms at the table of Judah (the Rich Man). That's my view on it anyway...

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 2, 2011

Tavita said:
Lazarus is symbolic of the Gentiles who were not allowed to go beyond the Court of the Gentiles through the gate, or barrier, that separated them from the House of Judah. Even though they were considered proselytes they were still viewed as 'dogs' begging for crumbs/alms at the table of Judah (the Rich Man). That's my view on it anyway...

That is actually how I have viewed it

This one commentator even implies that thru the mention of the 5 brothers in vs 28

LUKE 16:27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' " (NKJV)

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham. He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).
While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking.
They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

Optimax · Nov 2, 2011

GlobalWolf2010 has it right.

The scripture says:

Luke 16:20
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
KJV

The term "which was laid at his gate" is a reference to the verse before which says:

Luke 16:20
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: KJV

The subject is the rich man. Lazarus was laid where he would have the best opportunity to receive. The gate of the rich mans place.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 2, 2011

Tavita said:
Lazarus is symbolic of the Gentiles who were not allowed to go beyond the Court of the Gentiles through the gate, or barrier, that separated them from the House of Judah. Even though they were considered proselytes they were still viewed as 'dogs' begging for crumbs/alms at the table of Judah (the Rich Man). That's my view on it anyway...

The greek words used for dogs is interesting
According to the lexicon, one is used for "small dogs" and the other used for a grown "adult dogs/hound".

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:21 and yearning to be satisfied from the crumbs/scraps the-ones falling from the table of the rich-man, but also the dogs/kuneV <2965> coming licked upon the sores of him.

Matt 15:27 The yet she said "yea Lord! for even the little-dogs/kunaria <2952> eating from the crumbs/scraps, the ones falling from the table of the lords of them;"
[Mark 7:27/Luke 16:21]

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G2952 matches the Greek κυνάριον (kynarion), which occurs 4 times in 4 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G2965 matches the Greek κύων (kyōn), which occurs 5 times in 5 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

2952. kunarion koo-nar'-ee-on neuter of a presumed derivative of 2965; a puppy:--dog.
2965. kuon koo'-ohn a primary word; a dog ("hound") (literally or figuratively):--dog.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 2, 2011

Pythons said:
My guess was the gate for the Temple....
...As that was a beggars best chance for a donation.
...As LLOJ suggested.

Acts 3,2
And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple

Looking at where gate is used in the bible, the first time is it mentioned is in Genesis 19 concerning "Sodom". Coincidentally, that city is also mentioned in Revelation 11:8. Interesting

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
"gate"
occurs 275 times in 220 verses in the KJV

1st time used in Bible:

NKJV) Genesis 19:1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw [them,] he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground.

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
"sodom"
occurs 48 times in 47 verses in the KJV

Last time used in Bible:

NKJV) Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies [will lie] in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

brinny · Nov 2, 2011

LittleLambofJesus said:
I have always been intrigued with the parable of the richman and lazarus and as I was reading thru it again, I began to wonder about the location of the gate Lazarus was laid at, and/or what it was symbolizing.

Then I saw how Acts 3:1 had a similar story story of a lame beggar asking for alms at a gate to the temple and Peter and John healed him.
Are there any views on the gate that others can contribute? Thanks

Luke 16:19 " There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
"gate"
occurs 275 times in 220 verses in the KJV
　
NKJV) Acts 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth [hour.]
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms from those who entered the temple;
10 Then they knew that it was he who sat begging alms at the Beautiful Gate of the temple; and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.

I'm clueless...had not given it a lot of thought...i assumed it was the gate to that particular city, but now i am clueless...it seems to tie in with the rich man's property.....

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 2, 2011

brinny said:
I'm clueless...had not given it a lot of thought...i assumed it was the gate to that particular city, but now i am clueless...it seems to tie in with the rich man's property.....

From what I understand, Solomon's/Herod Temple and Sanctuary was pretty rich in gold and silver.
According to Josphus, after the Roman destroyed with fire, they tried to dig the melted gold out of the rubb.e

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus coming out, t He went from the Temple, and His Disciples came toward Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple
2 and Jesus is saying to them "Not ye see all these? Amen I am saying to ye, not no be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown down" [Mark 21:5]

Luke 19:44 and they shall be leveling Thee and the offspring of Thee in Thee.
And not they shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee stead which not thou knew the time of the visitation of Thee.

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

http://www.templemount.org/destruct2.html

.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............

Jerusalem was totally destroyed and as Jesus had predicted - not one stone was left upon another. When the Temple was set on fire the Roman soldiers tore apart the stone to get the melted gold. The Menorah and vessels were carried to Rome and the treasury was robbed.

GratiaCorpusChristi · Nov 2, 2011

LittleLambofJesus said:
I have always been intrigued with the parable of the richman and lazarus and as I was reading thru it again, I began to wonder about the location of the gate Lazarus was laid at, and/or what it was symbolizing.

Then I saw how Acts 3:1 had a similar story story of a lame beggar asking for alms at a gate to the temple and Peter and John healed him.
Are there any views on the gate that others can contribute? Thanks

Unlike in Hellenistic, Roman, and even small American towns, in ancient Israel the city gate was the place of commerce and the courts (there are many references to finding justice at the city and temple gates throughout the Old Testament). This was also true of the gates the opened into the temple complex. City gates where the one place where you can really expect the rich and the poor to meet one other. Therefore it is an ideal setting for the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, and just naturally the place where beggars would set up shop (as in Acts). That's just how it historically worked.

If there is any deeper historical significance, it is merely, but significantly, this: the poor begging at the gate were being denied justice precisely at the place where they should have expected it from righteous judges and the charitable rich. The detail nothing the setting at the gate serves to highlight the extreme perversion of social justice, which the Kingdom of God will address.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 3, 2011

GratiaCorpusChristi said:
Unlike in Hellenistic, Roman, and even small American towns, in ancient Israel the city gate was the place of commerce and the courts (there are many references to finding justice at the city and temple gates throughout the Old Testament). This was also true of the gates the opened into the temple complex. City gates where the one place where you can really expect the rich and the poor to meet one other. Therefore it is an ideal setting for the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, and just naturally the place where beggars would set up shop (as in Acts). That's just how it historically worked.

If there is any deeper historical significance, it is merely, but significantly, this: the poor begging at the gate were being denied justice precisely at the place where they should have expected it from righteous judges and the charitable rich. The detail nothing the setting at the gate serves to highlight the extreme perversion of social justice, which the Kingdom of God will address.

Good post and thank you.
Didn't Jesus rail agains the Jewish religious rulers/priesthood for doing that exact thing?
Notice how the Pharisees reacted in Luke 16:14.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.

NKJV) Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier [matters] of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

LittleLambofJesus · Jun 11, 2012

Originally Posted by Tavita Lazarus is symbolic of the Gentiles who were not allowed to go beyond the Court of the Gentiles through the gate, or barrier, that separated them from the House of Judah. Even though they were considered proselytes they were still viewed as 'dogs' begging for crumbs/alms at the table of Judah (the Rich Man). That's my view on it anyway...

This site also views Judah as symbolizing the rich man and his people

I doubt the SDAs and MJs will agree with his consensus tho

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

.....While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Christ was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who He was referring to with this parable.

This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the house of Judah, the Jews!..

.....

squint · Jun 11, 2012

LittleLambofJesus said:
This site also views Judah as symbolizing the rich man and his people

IF a person understands that 'gates' are the senses through which we 'receive' or 'reject' Divine Matters of conveyance they would also see that it is not a physical gate or gates, but the eye gate, the ear gate, the mouth gate, the body gate, etc etc.

And the whole 'judah' thing? lol. The spiritual captivity of the people of Israel has already been delineated in writing as to cause.

Romans 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

No differently than Paul described here:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Anyone who reads of unbelieving Israel and can't see or define that there is THEM and there is the other working is not going to be seeing much in parables themselves.

It is the same with Lazarus and the 'rich man.' There is a 'king'
a 'rich man' at their [ear/eye/mouth] gate stealing the crumbs of the BREAD OF LIFE from the 'poor' of understanding, and they can't see it because they are purposefully and even intentionally blinded by that same king/rich man working.

Judah? Fat chance.

s

LittleLambofJesus · Jun 11, 2012

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

squint said:
IF a person understands that 'gates' are the senses through which we 'receive' or 'reject' Divine Matters of conveyance they would also see that it is not a physical gate or gates, but the eye gate, the ear gate, the mouth gate, the body gate, etc etc.

And the whole 'judah' thing? lol. The spiritual captivity of the people of Israel has already been delineated in writing as to cause.

Romans 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

No differently than Paul described here:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Anyone who reads of unbelieving Israel and can't see or define that there is THEM and there is the other working is not going to be seeing much in parables themselves.

It is the same with Lazarus and the 'rich man.' There is a 'king'
a 'rich man' at their [ear/eye/mouth] gate stealing the crumbs of the BREAD OF LIFE from the 'poor' of understanding, and they can't see it because they are purposefully and even intentionally blinded by that same king/rich man working.

Judah? Fat chance.

s

If you remember, the House of Judah also consisted of the priestly tribe of Levi, along with Judah and Benjamin, of which those 3 just happened to be mentioned in Revelation :idea:

Reve 7
1. Y@huwdah = "I will praise Yah" 2. R@'uwben = "He looked on my humliation" 3. Gad = "In raid" 4. 'Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtaliy = "My wrestling" 6. M@nashsheh = "Making me to forget" 7. Shim`own = "He hears me" 8. Leviy = "and obligated me" 9. Yissaskar = "Gave me hire" 10. Z@buwluwn = "a dowry" 11. Yowceph = " he took away my reproach" 12. Binyamiyn = "by Son of His right hand"

.....

brinny · Jun 11, 2012

whoa! in speaking of the jewish people, i had never heard of this before, but have you heard of the Cabalistic Jews, which could tie-in with Revelation or the gate spoken of?

squint · Jun 11, 2012

LittleLambofJesus said:
Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
If you remember, the House of Judah also consisted of the priestly tribe of Levi, along with Judah and Benjamin, of which those 3 just happened to be mentioned in Revelation

Reve 7
1. Y@huwdah = "I will praise Yah" 2. R@'uwben = "He looked on my humliation" 3. Gad = "In raid" 4. 'Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtaliy = "My wrestling" 6. M@nashsheh = "Making me to forget" 7. Shim`own = "He hears me" 8. Leviy = "and obligated me" 9. Yissaskar = "Gave me hire" 10. Z@buwluwn = "a dowry" 11. Yowceph = " he took away my reproach" 12. Binyamiyn = "by Son of His right hand"
.....

It happened in the priestly class and it happened to Lazarus JUST LIKE THIS and this matter is quite easy to comprehend, once seen:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Where was the Word, the Law sown? Why, in the TEMPLE. So the priest class would likely be the first to be infected with what? Lawless blindness of SATAN.

And what are the PRIEST CLASS of Israel named? Why that would be LEVITES...meaning...drumrolll...

joined to.

Usage in the KJV:
Levite 286
Total: 286
Definition:
Levite = see Levi "joined to"

What then were they joined to?

And who did Jesus address in them of the temple? Why, children of the DEVIL!

Imagine that?

have fun!

s

LittleLambofJesus · Jun 11, 2012

brinny said:
whoa! in speaking of the jewish people, i had never heard of this before, but have you heard of the Cabalistic Jews, which could tie-in with Revelation or the gate spoken of?

Never really studied much on that.
According to this site, they didn't hold much esteemed for the Jewish Talmud.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/cab/index.htm

The Cabala: Chapter VI. The Cabala in Relation to Judaism and Christianity

Judaism.--It must be acknowledged that the Cabala intended to oppose philosophy and to intensify religion. But by introducing heathenish ideas it grafted on Judaism a conception of the world which was foreign to it and produced the most pernicious results. In place of the monotheistic biblical idea of God, according to which God is the creator, preserver and ruler of the world, the confused, pantheistically colored heathenish doctrine of emanation was substituted. The belief in the unity of God was replaced by the decade of the ten Sephiroth which were considered as divine substances. By no longer addressing prayers directly to god, but to the Sephiroth, a real Sephiroth-cult originated.

The legal discussions of the Talmud were of no account; the Cabalists despised the Talmud, yea, they considered it as a canker of Judaism, which must be cut out if Judaism were to recover.

Lazarus and the gate in Luke 16:20

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