Is Mary the "queen of heaven" mentioned in the Bible?

Standing Up · Oct 2, 2011

Thekla said:
It seems you are splitting Jesus Christ into two parts ...

Did you mean to say this ?

Sorta hard to get the head around, but no one believes Mary is the mother of God in the sense she preexisted Jesus Christ. Folks seem to have lost that sense that she didn't birth Jesus Christ, but she did birth Jesus Christ.

narnia59 · Oct 2, 2011

Jesus3:16 said:
"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."
~ Jeremiah 17:18 (KJV)

Yes, and where does that give any clue that the 'title' is the issue as opposed to the creation of a false goddess to worship?

Jesus3:16 said:
Why are Catholics glorifying Mary when God said,

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."
~ Isaiah 42:8 (KJV)

It's robbery of glory and praise that only God deserves.

Move on to the NT -- we are given a share in Christ's glory.

John 17 22: The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23: I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

Romans 8 17: and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. 18: I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

Jesus3:16 said:
Mary is the mother of Jesus' humanity and not His divinity.

Mary is the source of Jesus's humanity, not his divinity. She is the mother of Jesus, who is God. Still can't stop equating motherhood to being a creator?

Jesus3:16 said:
Jesus always was and always will be, Mary had a beginning, so she's not divine. This is TRUTH.

Yes it is. No one has claimed otherwise, but the fact that you think this is our position shows what you think you know is not correct.

Jesus3:16 said:
I'm not contradicting anything, I'm sure you know the doctrine of Incarnation.

I'm thinking you do not or you would not be trying to destroy the hypostatic union.

Jesus3:16 said:
And please show me evidence where Mary is at the right hand of Christ
and where she attained the blasphemous title "Queen of Heaven" in Scripture.

I didn't say Mary was at the right hand of Christ. I asked you who will be at the right hand of Christ. If you know it's not Mary, surely you know who it is?

Jesus3:16 said:
And an idol is a graven image, it doesn't only mean it has to be a picture.

An idol can be anything you place before God.

narnia59 · Oct 2, 2011

Thekla said:
In the LXX it states (in Greek) eidolon.

So where does the 'graven' part come from?

Yes, I'm asking you to do my homework.

Thekla · Oct 2, 2011

Standing Up said:
Sorta hard to get the head around, but no one believes Mary is the mother of God in the sense she preexisted Jesus Christ.

true, I've never met anyone who believed that Mary pre-existed God !

Folks seem to have lost that sense that she didn't birth Jesus Christ, but she did birth Jesus Christ.

Well, actually Scripture says she did conceive and birth Jesus Christ so I'll leave it at that.

Thekla · Oct 2, 2011

narnia59 said:
So where does the 'graven' part come from?

Yes, I'm asking you to do my homework.

Maybe the MT ?

(Give me a bit, I'll check my translation of the MT ...)

Thekla · Oct 2, 2011

Exodus 20:

"...carved image nor any likeness ..."

Deuteronomy 5

"... carved image of any likeness ..."

(Stone edition of the Tanach)

narnia59 · Oct 2, 2011

Thekla said:
Exodus 20:

"...carved image nor any likeness ..."

Deuteronomy 5

"... carved image of any likeness ..."

(Stone edition of the Tanach)

So the Hebrew says 'carved image' but the Greek says 'idol'?

Jesus3:16 · Oct 2, 2011

Thekla said:
It seems you are splitting Jesus Christ into two parts ...

Did you mean to say this ?

Does not God have three parts but is still one?
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
I don't think the Trinity is something that can be comprehended by us completely.

Jesus the Son, is 100% human and 100% divine.

I think Mary is the mother of Jesus' human nature, but not His divine nature.
God has no creator, was not concieved, nor was birthed.

God is eternal and infinite, while Mary had a beginning (not eternal) and is finite.

Thekla · Oct 2, 2011

narnia59 said:
So the Hebrew says 'carved image' but the Greek says 'idol'?

Yes

narnia59 · Oct 2, 2011

Thekla said:
Yes

Thank you.

Thekla · Oct 2, 2011

Jesus3:16 said:
Does not God have three parts but is still one? God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Three persons, one in essence.

Jesus the Son, is 100% human and 100% divine.

Yes.

I think Mary is the mother of Jesus' human nature, but not His divine nature. God has no creator, was not concieved, nor birthed.

The Logos was begotten of the Father before all time and is eternally begotten.

The Logos was incarnated; conceived by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary. Jesus Christ is one, not parts. To call Mary His mother is to recognize that He is fully divine, fully human.

God is eternal and infinite, while Mary had a beginning (not eternal) and finite.

of course

narnia59 · Oct 2, 2011

Standing Up said:
Sorta hard to get the head around, but no one believes Mary is the mother of God in the sense she preexisted Jesus Christ. Folks seem to have lost that sense that she didn't birth Jesus Christ, but she did birth Jesus Christ.

I'm thinking you're pointing out the fallacy of the logic of those who deny Mary the title of Mother of God.

Or not?

Incariol · Oct 2, 2011

Jesus3:16 said:
I think Mary is the mother of Jesus' human nature, but not His divine nature.
God has no creator, was not concieved, nor was birthed.

God is eternal and infinite, while Mary had a beginning (not eternal) and is finite.

So, what? You think Jesus was born human and God came down and indwelt him shortly after he was born?

Ave Maria · Oct 9, 2011

Yes, she is. And just to answer one possible objection to this fact, here is an article:

How do I answer the charge that Catholics worship the pagan goddess Ishtar because we refer to Mary as Queen of Heaven? | Catholic Answers

steve_bakr · Oct 9, 2011

Ave Maria said:
Yes, she is. And just to answer one possible objection to this fact, here is an article:

How do I answer the charge that Catholics worship the pagan goddess Ishtar because we refer to Mary as Queen of Heaven? | Catholic Answers

Hail, Holy Queen.

Whisper of Hope · Oct 10, 2011

Perhaps it's just me, but I find it rather unnerving to hear those who profess Christ to give honor and praise to Mary or to anyone else, dead or alive.

Rhamiel · Oct 10, 2011

WhisperofHope said:
Perhaps it's just me, but I find it rather unnerving to hear those who profess Christ to give honor and praise to Mary or to anyone else, dead or alive.

in the Bible respect and honor are important things
the 10 commandments tell us to honor our mother and father
God sent bears to kill a gang of youths who did not show proper respect to Elijah
Also God sent fire down on a Captain and his men who did not show proper respect to Elijah

we are suposded to show respect to secular leaders as well right?
there is a differance between the love and respect we show created beings and the respect love and worship that we give to God alone

-edit-
I hope I did not come off as too harsh sounding, I can understand that to people who did not grow up with these kind of devotions they can seem very odd

Thekla · Oct 10, 2011

Christ honored His mother ( otherwise, He would be breaking a commandment).

If we are like Christ, we give honor to what He honored.

zeke37 · Oct 10, 2011

honour and petition are two different things

Thekla · Oct 10, 2011

zeke37 said:
honour and petition are two different things

See the other thread.

Is Mary the "queen of heaven" mentioned in the Bible?

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