Incense

LittleLambofJesus said:

I noticed one of the options in the poll was "no! incense is of Satan!!!!!!!"

Evidently, that Church in Revelation 18 wasn't doing the incense the right way

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number H7004 matches the Hebrew קְטֹרֶת (qĕtoreth), which occurs 60 times in 58 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV

1st time used in Bible:

NKJV) Exodus 25:6 "oil for the light, and spices for the anointing oil and for the sweet incense;

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Never thought much about incense....i don't think God cares if we use incense. He's more interested in what's in our hearts when we pray. THAT'S what's PRECIOUS, beyond price, to Him, our hearts.

Fireinfolding said:

Amen Ortho, you can catch in various ways

Which shows (in the same accord) the smoke of the incense which come with the prayers of the saints before God

And ofcourse its written they burned incense unto the Queen of heaven as well (that not pleasing Him too much)

God bless

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Which begs the question of who is that Queen in Reve 18 symbolizing

http://www.christianforums.com/t5617198/
She who sits as queen, not widow, never mourns
　
Revelation 18:7 As much as She glorifies herself and indulges, be giving to Her tormenting and mourning.
That in Her heart she is saying 'I am sitting a Queen and widow not I am, and mourning not I shall be seeing'.

Yes. Incense ( resin) is used quite frequently at Church. I use the cones at home because my house is tiny.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Which begs the question of who is that Queen in Reve 18 symbolizing

http://www.christianforums.com/t5617198/
She who sits as queen, not widow, never mourns
　
Revelation 18:7 As much as She glorifies herself and indulges, be giving to Her tormenting and mourning.
That in Her heart she is saying 'I am sitting a Queen and widow not I am, and mourning not I shall be seeing'.

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A queen and a king .. or a pope .

Catholic church seems to apply the book of kings . the protestants the divided kingdom . the emergents babylon and haven't forgotten the judges of the Orthodoxy .

Scottish Knight said:

Nothing wrong with using incense, but I could see it could be a distraction from real worship - it risks turning worship into a specatcle for ourselves. I don't believe God cares whether or not we use incense or not - what matters is that we are worshiping in spirit and truth.

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I'm not sure I understand that. It seems very important to God, so important that He killed people for doing it strangely. How can you say now that it is unimportant?

cobweb said:

Yes. Incense ( resin) is used quite frequently at Church. I use the cones at home because my house is tiny.

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Just be thankful ya don't look like this

‪Coneheads Movie Trailer‬‏ - YouTube

brinny said:

Never thought much about incense....i don't think God cares if we use incense. He's more interested in what's in our hearts when we pray. THAT'S what's PRECIOUS, beyond price, to Him, our hearts.

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Yes Brin, figures of the TRUE, you can burn whatever you want that wont change anything (in reality)

Making our voice heard on high, doing what please Him, shown here (quite the opposite here.

Isaiah 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

Isaih 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Isaiah 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.

Whereas...

1John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

However, just the same If we confess our sins and acknowledge them before Him, he is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You know, I have felt my heavens be as iron (best description of it there is) heaven shut up to me (so to speak) until I made my confession before Him. Which is the exact way the figure presents itself to my conscience (when I have not) as He appears "far from me" (or has shut me out) until I do. I dont care what anyone says, it sure feels that way and I have learned dont do "that", because I can feel His attentiveness to my prayer when I do even as the scriptures show. Theres a blessedness in one. But I can aslo percieve (in myself) the being shut out (which has happened at time) and its a very real thing (well it is, at least it is to me).

However He is faithful, and I have respect unto Him in these things that His mercies fail not, *and I* fail not because of how great they are toward me, Great is our God. Praise His name!

God bless

LittleLambofJesus said:

Which begs the question of who is that Queen in Reve 18 symbolizing

http://www.christianforums.com/t5617198/
She who sits as queen, not widow, never mourns
　
Revelation 18:7 As much as She glorifies herself and indulges, be giving to Her tormenting and mourning.
That in Her heart she is saying 'I am sitting a Queen and widow not I am, and mourning not I shall be seeing'.

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It's the USA.

Kristos said:

I'm not sure I understand that. It seems very important to God, so important that He killed people for doing it strangely. How can you say now that it is unimportant?

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The use of incense was part of the old covenantal system. The old covenant has a lot of things we no longer need or do. Nowhere are we as Christians commanded to use incense as an essential part of our worship.

Since you consider incense as an essential part of worship, would you say that my worship is made unnacceptable before God because I personally don't use incense?

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My choice is not in the poll....


It is unnecessary, it STINKS, and therefore I don't do it.





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Scottish Knight said:

The use of incense was part of the old covenantal system. The old covenant has a lot of things we no longer need or do. Nowhere are we as Christians commanded to use incense as an essential part of our worship.

Since you consider incense as an essential part of worship, would you say that my worship is made unnacceptable before God because I personally don't use incense?

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I don't see the relationship of incense to the old covenant. It is revealed to be part of heavenly worship which is transcendent. Our worship must always be looking toward God, toward heaven as it's ultimate destination. I can't say anything about your worship, but from what you say here it sounds like there is disconnect based on a misunderstanding of liturgical worship as revealed in scripture.

Fireinfolding said:

Yes Brin, figures of the TRUE, you can burn whatever you want that wont change anything (in reality)

Making our voice heard on high, doing what please Him, shown here (quite the opposite here.

Isaiah 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

Isaih 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Isaiah 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.

Whereas...

1John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

However, just the same If we confess our sins and acknowledge them before Him, he is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You know, I have felt my heavens be as iron (best description of it there is) heaven shut up to me (so to speak) until I made my confession before Him. Which is the exact way the figure presents itself to my conscience (when I have not) as He appears "far from me" (or has shut me out) until I do. I dont care what anyone says, it sure feels that way and I have learned dont do "that", because I can feel His attentiveness to my prayer when I do even as the scriptures show. Theres a blessedness in one. But I can aslo percieve (in myself) the being shut out (which has happened at time) and its a very real thing (well it is, at least it is to me).

However He is faithful, and I have respect unto Him in these things that His mercies fail not, *and I* fail not because of how great they are toward me, Great is our God. Praise His name!

God bless

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I agree. I've been delving into Isaiah.....God is blunt, isn't He?

And yes, i have felt shut out as well.....but he is good, He worked in my heart to give ev'rything to Him, even those things i was holding onto for dear life, and then the "release" comes and the "freedom" when i yield it all to Him....i soooo needed to forgive certain lost souls, and i wasn't gonna, but praise god, He gave me a new perspective on it, and i saw that it is an eternal, pivotal thing, this forgiveness. And the enemy has no defense against it. It beats him to a pulp. Unity is another pivotal of the utmost importance that sends bombs straight smack in the middle of the enemy camp in this spiritual war....

Kristos said:

I don't see the relationship of incense to the old covenant. It is revealed to be part of heavenly worship which is transcendent. Our worship must always be looking toward God, toward heaven as it's ultimate destination. I can't say anything about your worship, but from what you say here it sounds like there is disconnect based on a misunderstanding of liturgical worship as revealed in scripture.

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You still haven't shown me any evidence for why it's essential for worship

brinny said:

I agree. I've been delving into Isaiah.....God is blunt, isn't He?

And yes, i have felt shut out as well.....but he is good, He worked in my heart to give ev'rything to Him, even those things i was holding onto for dear life, and then the "release" comes and the "freedom" when i yield it all to Him....i soooo needed to forgive certain lost souls, and i wasn't gonna, but praise god, He gave me a new perspective on it, and i saw that it is an eternal, pivotal thing, this forgiveness. And the enemy has no defense against it. It beats him to a pulp. Unity is another pivotal of the utmost importance that sends bombs straight smack in the middle of the enemy camp in this spiritual war....

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Amen, forgive others

Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Just about sums it up

Theres a built in "clause" though...

Mat 16:10 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Then the sweet little picture here (you can read it for yourself) when we do not.

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

And It was not the debtor (or who appears to be the one who failed in his obligation to repay his debt to another) who was handed over to the tormentors). It was the one who stood forgiven (already of the Lord) his debt who became the wicked servant. And this, in failing to forgive (also) the debt owed to him. He says, SHOULDEST THOU NOT ALSO have forgiven AS I have forgiven thee? So he is shown not being spared what he was handed over to. In this case the tormentors. Even as FEAR has torment. And He can indeed instill a little FEAR of the Lord in doing such things. Once given it neednt not be given AGAIN as we have not been given AGAIN a spirit of fear, but (finally getting it) of love and a sound mind, now understanding what the Lords will is (and doing it). Which is to love one another, and love keeps no records of wrongs. He says BE YE merciful AS your Father in heaven is merciful. Because it says likewise, JUDGMENT WITHOUT MERCY will be shown to those WHO SHOW NO MERCY, and thats what that is a picture of, and when His judgments are in the earth men LEARN to DO righteousness and execute the true judgment which is to show mercy. Like a Spirit of judgment sent into your bosom of strong wrath because of disobedience to His commands to do so.

The robbery of the wicked is in just that, not doing judgment (passing over mercy) and thusly he is called a wicked servant. He who was extended forgiveness but payeth not again the same toward others.

So was locked up.

And so Jesus said SO SHALL your heavenly Father DO ALSO to YOU. And so we learn (even by His true and just judgments) to do good (showing mercy) and departing from our evil ways. He did have to pay down to the last farthing.... (till we get it). Goes to show you how much he desires us to show mercy and how angry He is when we dont do "that".

His ways are just and true, always for our benefit.

God bless

Fireinfolding said:

Amen, forgive others

Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Just about sums it up

Theres a built in "clause"

Mat 16:10 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Then the sweet little picture here (you can read it for yourself)

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

It was not the debtor (or who appears to be the one who failed in his obligation to repay his debt to another) who was handed over to the tormentors) but the who stood forgiven (already of the Lord) who became the wicked servant in failing to forgive (also) the debt owed to him... he says, SHOULD THOU NOT ALSO have forgiven AS I have forgiven, but was not spared what he was handed over to, in this case the tormentors. FEAR has torment, He can instill a little FEAR of the Lord in doing such things, once given it neednt not be given AGAIN as we have not been given AGAIN a spirit of fear, but (finally getting it) of love and a sound mind, understanding what the Lords will is (and doing it) which is to love one another, and love keeps no records of wrongs, be merciful AS HE is merciful because as it says, JUDGMENT WITHOUT MERCY will be shown to those who SHOW NO MERCY, and thats what that is a picture of, and when His judgments are in the earth men LEARN to DO righteousness and execute the true judgment which is to show mercy.

The robbery of the wicked is in just that, not doing judgment, thus he is called a wicked servant, who was extended forgiveness but payeth not again the same toward others.

So was locked up and Jesus saidSO SHALL your heavenly Father DO ALSO to YOU. And so we learn (even by His true and just judgments) to do good and depart from our evil ways, by paying down to the last farthing (till we get it) Goes to show you how much he desires us to show mercy and how angry He is when we dont do "that"

His ways are just and true, always for our benefit.

God bless

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Amen. Seems He had to humble me till i couldn't be humbled no more to "see" what He had to teach me...it ties in with the realization of the depth of how we do NOt deserve his grace or forgiveness, and being soooo thankful for it, that our eyes are "opened" to the need for soooooo many others (that hurt us) needing his grace. THAT'S what i see now. others need for His grace, and that they need it desperately, just like me. When He brings us through the fire, we see, not the human being over there who done us wrong, but that raging spiritual war raging, and who is BEHIND all of the evil and sin that hurts us, and others. We see the bigger picture. NOW i know why He was putting me through one fiery trial after another. It was the only was i was going to "see" the big picture.

And i am thankful. amen.

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I have NO problem with this PRACTICE as long as it's done as a matter of choice - and there is no dogma that such MUST or MUST NOT be done; we all embrace (or not) a plethora of adiaphoron - and IMO, this is just one of those.


MY issue (besides I regarding it as STINKING) is.... I can't personally handle it. I've been in churches (mostly as a tourist) and almost immediately, my eyes water, my nose runs, I can hardly think of anything else, and I can physically remain in the room only for a few minutes. If MY church took up this practice, unless VERY, VERY lightly done, I would be forced to leave - a brother in Christ pushed out.




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brinny said:

Amen. Seems He had to humble me till i couldn't be humbled no more to "see" what He had to teach me...it ties in with the realization of the depth of how we do NOt deserve his grace or forgiveness, and being soooo thankful for it, that our eyes are "opened" to the need for soooooo many others (that hurt us) needing his grace. THAT'S what i see now. others need for His grace, and that they need it desperately, just like me. When He brings us through the fire, we see, not the human being over there who done us wrong, but that raging spiritual war raging, and who is BEHIND all of the evil and sin that hurts us, and others. We see the bigger picture. NOW i know why He was putting me through one fiery trial after another. It was the only was i was going to "see" the big picture.

And i am thankful. amen.

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Amen sister, I just went in and changed my post I made to you (saying the same thing) however there was barely any puctuation and it was badly worded, so I changed it after you replied here because even I couldnt read it... I failed to proof read it.

Blessing to you

Scottish Knight said:

You still haven't shown me any evidence for why it's essential for worship

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I do not think anyone is saying it is essential, just that it is a nice thing
in Revelations incense is used to symbolize the prayers of the saints

BTW Eastern Catholics are rather fond of incense

I recently began using stick incense during prayer times at home.

I really love it, as it helps to "set apart" this time as special - a time that is dedicated to prayer in a way that the rest of the day is not, even though prayer never ceases (ideally).

Is it absolutely essential? No.

Mary

Rhamiel said:

I do not think anyone is saying it is essential, just that it is a nice thing
in Revelations incense is used to symbolize the prayers of the saints

BTW Eastern Catholics are rather fond of incense

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Kristos did:

Kristos said:

I think that based on the law, the psalms and the prophets, incense is an essential part of right liturgical worship - BUT it does not make the worship right by it's presence. quote]

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