If I live in an area where I cannot join an Eastern Orthodox church...

wayseer · May 16, 2011

gzt said:
It will certainly put a damper on actually becoming and being an Orthodox Christian. As for what you call yourself, there is one minor problem: you objectively aren't one. I presume you go to church somewhere (I hope you do), but it would be somewhat scandalous to tell people you're an Orthodox Christian while going to some other church (and possibly taking communion and all that there, but I don't know what you actually do). And you really don't know what it is to be an Orthodox Christian until you have some chance to see it a little. I don't mean to discourage you, you just might have to think of a different way of phrasing it and thinking about it.

Ah, yes - Timothy Ware warns us about such being discouraged - but he went on to become a priest in the Orthodox Church.

And I am not thinking of a priesthood - not at my age.

But you raise good points and I am going to talk to a Greek Orthodox priest shortly so I will have a better understanding of things.

wayseer · May 16, 2011

-Kyriaki- said:
Just wondering, where in Australia are you? There's Orthodox Churches in unexpected places, but we're not very good at helping people find them. Let me know where and I can try and help

Thank you for your kind offer. I have tracked down a whole heap of info via the web and the Greek Orthodox Church in Australia, as well as St Andrew's Theological College in Sydney - excellent web sites. And I have been several time to St George's in Brisbane - another excellent web site.

As for your question - to be honest, no. You can say that the Church you most agree with is the Orthodox Church, but you're not Orthodox unless you're a member of the Church, and you'd need to attend Church a lot, or at least a fair few times and close communication with the priest in order to become a member, if that makes sense. Most of us here are converts, but our conversion took months or even years, even after we began to attend Orthodox services regularly. I was a catechumen for nine months before my baptism. Orthodoxy is...different. It's not something to join lightly, and you can't church swap the way most protestants do.

I am actually doing a Theology degree at the moment which I do through attendance at Brisbane and doing the subject the Church to 500 which is taught by a Greek Orthodox priest - we get on fine. And I have an appointment to see him in the next couple of days.

I accept what you say and it is not something I am taking lightly either. But in my searchings I have a sense that I have arrived home. At the moment I'm sitting along side ten books on Eastern Orthodoxy which I have on loan from the library. So I think I am travelling in good company. The rest is up to God.

-Kyriaki- · May 16, 2011

Sounds like you're on a good path

And the priests at St George are lovely. All the best with your studies

Sounds like an interesting course

wayseer · May 16, 2011

ChristIsMyVindication said:
Great idea. Just a few minor problems:

snip...

Anyway I'm done here. Thanks for your support, help and suggestions. Sorry I can't make much use of them yet. Be sure to pray for me about it! But try to see people for their hearts more than just for the obvious things, too! God bless.

Australia is a big place but look on the positive. You have access to the internet and I have found a number of excellent Greek Orthodox sites which are spilling over with info. And you can email them. Or, as been suggested, you can pick up the phone and have a chat.

I too live on a restricted income but I also know there are ways around most obstacles.

I don't think the contributors here are being elitist - I think that is a little unfair. I think they have made a fair call and one of the things about Orthodoxy is that it is not a cheap religion - it costs. Personally I find this aspect one of its attractions. To use an Australianism - it's fair dinkum mate!

Hey, do you live anywhere near me?

wayseer · May 16, 2011

-Kyriaki- said:
Sounds like you're on a good path And the priests at St George are lovely. All the best with your studies Sounds like an interesting course

Thank you. I'll let you all know what transpires.

lankyknight1990 · May 16, 2011

There would be either an Eastern Orthodox Church or an Oriental Orthodox Church in your area. Call your local Diocese and find out. Where abouts are you from?

-Kyriaki- · May 16, 2011

Maybe not, lankyknight - in the capital cities they exist, but it's harder in the country and regional areas which sounds like the problem here. It'd be nice if we had churches everywhere like in the USA, but that isn't the case here - it's mostly where the immigrants went (which is not to the country, generally)

gzt · May 16, 2011

I certainly do recommend trying to pray as best you can, keeping the feasts in mind, praying with icons. It's better than bad, it's good! Some people have very long roads to conversion before their circumstances work out right. But I highly recommend, if at all possible, finding a way to eventually make it work out right so you can convert. I'm talking, like, in a decade, not like in the next couple years. And only if possible.

Basil the Great · May 16, 2011

I still recall a poll that I saw a few years ago. I do not know if it was on this board or a different Christian message board. The poll question asked EO posters where would they attend services, if they lived in an area where there was no EO church close enough to travel to on any regular basis. The poll question gave 4 options: Oriental Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant and none. There were about 33 respondents, making each answer worth about 3%. As I recall, 6 or so voted for Oriental Orthodox or about 18%. Only 1 voted to attend RCC services or 3%. (so much for the proposed reunion it would appear?) No posters voted for Protestant services. The rest or about 26 posters and a very strong approx 79% voted to stay home on Sundays. It would be interesting to see how the EO members on this board would vote on such a question now.

gzt · May 16, 2011

Basil: question's answer depends on a few things. I think the answer really does need to vary for people who aren't yet Orthodox and those who are already Orthodox.

MariaRegina · May 17, 2011

wayseer said:
Thank you for your kind offer. I have tracked down a whole heap of info via the web and the Greek Orthodox Church in Australia, as well as St Andrew's Theological College in Sydney - excellent web sites. And I have been several time to St George's in Brisbane - another excellent web site.

I am actually doing a Theology degree at the moment which I do through attendance at Brisbane and doing the subject the Church to 500 which is taught by a Greek Orthodox priest - we get on fine. And I have an appointment to see him in the next couple of days.

I accept what you say and it is not something I am taking lightly either. But in my searchings I have a sense that I have arrived home. At the moment I'm sitting along side ten books on Eastern Orthodoxy which I have on loan from the library. So I think I am travelling in good company. The rest is up to God.

Praise the Lord.

God grant you many years.

ChristIsMyVindication · May 17, 2011

wayseer said:
Australia is a big place but look on the positive. You have access to the internet and I have found a number of excellent Greek Orthodox sites which are spilling over with info. And you can email them. Or, as been suggested, you can pick up the phone and have a chat.

I too live on a restricted income but I also know there are ways around most obstacles.

I don't think the contributors here are being elitist - I think that is a little unfair. I think they have made a fair call and one of the things about Orthodoxy is that it is not a cheap religion - it costs. Personally I find this aspect one of its attractions. To use an Australianism - it's fair dinkum mate!

Hey, do you live anywhere near me?

Sorry, not saying that they were actually being elitist, just that it could come off that way. I definitely agree it's not a cheap religion.
I live a few hundred km south of you.

Petronius · May 17, 2011

ChristIsMyVindication said:
Great idea. Just a few minor problems:
1 - The only money I have to spare on fuel to take me far enough is in my savings which are for (a) vital dental treatment I need which isn't covered my Medicare or anything like that, (b) counselling/therapy sessions I need which also aren't covered by Medicare or anything like that, and (c) keeping myself employable by allowing me to upgrade/replace things I need to finish an important music-related project I'm working on that I'm already 6 months behind schedule with due to my having to dip into my savings to cover much of the cost of having to move to a new address recently.
2 - Even if I did have the money, I don't have a driver's licence or a car and I don't have any friends to take me anywhere apart from my mother, and she's not big on churches in general let alone those with liturgical services 'cos she sees them as expressions of style over substance with a lot of people sitting around being gobsmacked zombies and putting on airs of solemnity and whatnot (she's from a mostly Protestant background). So it'd take a miracle for me to persuade her to take me to one. In fact I've

.........................................................................................

It is not necessary to cite all.

You are more Orthodox than many formal orthodox.

I think some answers here to your question/problem were too acrivistic.
A sort of an approach that produces splits, disputes.

Your situation has to be treated with oiconomia.

My suggestion is that you get in contact via email with an Orthodox priest/ hierach and this person will give best guidance.

God bless you!

wayseer · May 17, 2011

ChristIsMyVindication said:
I live a few hundred km south of you.

That closer to Brisbane than me. I'll PM you.

wayseer · May 17, 2011

MariaRegina said:
Praise the Lord.

God grant you many years.

Hey - I'm running out of years - but thank you.

cobweb · May 17, 2011

wayseer said:
Hey - I'm running out of years - but thank you.

You are still young. We still have several parishoners nearing 100. In fact... until recently our oldest parishoner was known to pound vodka shots until the wee hours of Pascha morning. ^_^

(I've also been told he has been known to sing/yell very loudly in Russian while doing it)

ChristIsMyVindication · May 18, 2011

lankyknight1990 said:
There would be either an Eastern Orthodox Church or an Oriental Orthodox Church in your area.

Very good point. If I can't get to one I can probably get to the other. But if worse comes to worst and I can't get to either then I'm willing to settle for Roman Catholicism even though I don't buy into the whole Papal Infallibility thing.
But whatever I do, the further it is from Protestantism the better. It's nothing personal against people who are into it, but I was raised with classic Protestant beliefs and I've seen its true colours in a negative light first-hand and I don't like it. I don't like how a lot of it portrays Catholic and (sometimes) Orthodox Christianity in a bad way and makes up lies about their customs and stuff to make them look bad. Many Protestants point at certain churches that have complex liturgical services and priests in unusual clothes and say "Look at them! They act like that so that people will think they're more holy than they really are!" or "They're just going through the outward motions of religion!" But I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. I know in my heart that the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches are full of people whose faith is very genuine and that Orthodoxy in particular is like a fortress that does not erode.

ChristIsMyVindication · May 18, 2011

wayseer said:
That closer to Brisbane than me. I'll PM you.

I got your PM and appreciated it very much but I couldn't reply because my post count was too low. But I should be able to reply soon. I can't promise that you'll get the response you want, but to be fair it's not necessarily going to be the response I'll want to give either. Life has a way of being complicated like that.

ChristIsMyVindication · May 18, 2011

Petronius said:
It is not necessary to cite all.

You are more Orthodox than many formal orthodox.

I think some answers here to your question/problem were too acrivistic.
A sort of an approach that produces splits, disputes.

Your situation has to be treated with oiconomia.

My suggestion is that you get in contact via email with an Orthodox priest/ hierach and this person will give best guidance.

God bless you!

Thankyou for your understanding.

God bless you too!

choirfiend · May 18, 2011

You really have one option: to find a helpful priest and begin study with his assistance and attend services when possible. If you should go to services with someone you know, it will be invaluable to begin to get to know people at the closest churches to you.

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