Gods warning about big government

gmd · Feb 21, 2011

In 1st Samuel 8
Was God warning Israel about man made governments when they wanted a King.
He told them that a king would take their children
and the best of their crops and livestock.
It sounds that way to me in view of the fact they only
had to give 10 percent.
Would just like an opinion
Thank you

miamited · Feb 23, 2011

Hi GMD,

No. One must first understand the plan that God was working out with His first call to Abraham in order to understand all the rest that came after.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

A New Dawn · Feb 23, 2011

I don't think it had to do with the size of government at all. God wanted to be their king. He didn't want them to pay homage to another human. Remember that, most of the time, kings set themselves up as gods and demanded worship, and God did not want that for His people since they were to only worship Him. He had set-up, back in the time of Moses, the type of government He wanted. Judges. (I realize that the formal judges came later than Moses, but that was the system God showed to Moses, that Moses used.) The people, being stiff-necked, though, wanted what the world wanted.

sanddjam · Mar 2, 2011

Government will always get bigger because of population growth, inflation due the greed of suppliers, and the increases of diseases and crimes.

sealacamp · Mar 2, 2011

sanddjam said:
Government will always get bigger because of population growth, inflation due the greed of suppliers, and the increases of diseases and crimes.

Government gets bigger because people give away their autonomy and seek to have someone else be responsible for them instead of taking responsibility for themselves. So your analysis of why this is happening is incorrect. Sorry.

Sealacamp

Satt · Mar 2, 2011

sealacamp said:
Government gets bigger because people give away their autonomy and seek to have someone else be responsible for them instead of taking responsibility for themselves. So your analysis of why this is happening is incorrect. Sorry.

Sealacamp

Amen.

ArcadiaMom · Mar 4, 2011

sealacamp said:
Government gets bigger because people give away their autonomy and seek to have someone else be responsible for them instead of taking responsibility for themselves. So your analysis of why this is happening is incorrect. Sorry.

Sealacamp

I once heard an awesome quote from one of my Sunday school teachers: God often gives a nation exactly the leader it deserves. :o

Wanda Lee · Mar 6, 2011

It was because man would depend on man and not on God. The same is true with the Tower of Babel. It is man thinking he can fix things and thus not depending on God.

As the government did more and more in caring for the needy the church did less and less. The government has made a mess of things - The Church should get down on our knees and beg forgiveness for turning over the care of the needy to the government.

sealacamp · Mar 6, 2011

As the government did more and more in caring for the needy the church did less and less.

Well Wanda I don't think the church has done less and less. What happened is a group of people in this country have been working diligently to force God and the church out of public life. Consequently those same people have allowed the government to take over where the church has traditionally been, thus pushing the church away and into the proverbial corner.

Case in point is the Catholic church and its adoptive services in the northeast US. A couple of years ago the government decided that the church could no longer serve as an adoptive agency since it had a policy of adopting to families only. Our government, due to leftist influence, determined that any family scenario was fine ie. lesbians and homosexuals, had the same rights as a traditional family of man and woman. Since the government decided to force the Catholic church to adopt to everyone no matter what their orientation was the Catholic church has gotten out of the adoption business in the northeast US. They were doing this for 70 or 80 years from what I recall in the news presentation. So there is your problem and if the church has anything at all in the way of responsibility it is two fold issue. One being that many people don't want to get involved at all and the other that some claiming Christ reject what His word teaches us about right and wrong. The first problem isn't good but the second problem is undermining truth in this country, and I would say even around the world. In some places it is considered a hate crime to preach the truth.

Satan has been busy and he isn't done yet. If we don't stand up for what is right and put the Lord first while implementing through His people then things for those that adhere to the Lords truth will get worse in this world, not better. I have no doubt that it is satan's desire to destroy the truth, the church, and Gods people so that what we read about in revelations comes to pass, the world worshiping satan instead of God.

Sealacamp

michael32 · Mar 6, 2011

Wanda Lee said:
It was because man would depend on man and not on God. The same is true with the Tower of Babel. It is man thinking he can fix things and thus not depending on God.

As the government did more and more in caring for the needy the church did less and less. The government has made a mess of things - The Church should get down on our knees and beg forgiveness for turning over the care of the needy to the government.

Wanda Lee · Mar 6, 2011

sealacamp said:
Well Wanda I don't think the church has done less and less. What happened is a group of people in this country have been working diligently to force God and the church out of public life. Consequently those same people have allowed the government to take over where the church has traditionally been, thus pushing the church away and into the proverbial corner.

Case in point is the Catholic church and its adoptive services in the northeast US. A couple of years ago the government decided that the church could no longer serve as an adoptive agency since it had a policy of adopting to families only. Our government, due to leftist influence, determined that any family scenario was fine ie. lesbians and homosexuals, had the same rights as a traditional family of man and woman. Since the government decided to force the Catholic church to adopt to everyone no matter what their orientation was the Catholic church has gotten out of the adoption business in the northeast US. They were doing this for 70 or 80 years from what I recall in the news presentation. So there is your problem and if the church has anything at all in the way of responsibility it is two fold issue. One being that many people don't want to get involved at all and the other that some claiming Christ reject what His word teaches us about right and wrong. The first problem isn't good but the second problem is undermining truth in this country, and I would say even around the world. In some places it is considered a hate crime to preach the truth.

Satan has been busy and he isn't done yet. If we don't stand up for what is right and put the Lord first while implementing through His people then things for those that adhere to the Lords truth will get worse in this world, not better. I have no doubt that it is satan's desire to destroy the truth, the church, and Gods people so that what we read about in revelations comes to pass, the world worshiping satan instead of God.

Sealacamp

I agree with most of what you said. Though I believe that if the church had stood strong in obedience the government would have never taken over. I think we are saying the same thing.

I'm reading "Bonhoffer, Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy" - every Christian in America should read this book. The American Church is as blind as the German Lutheran Church was as Hitler took over. We bend Biblical truth so we can "feel" more comfortable.

sealacamp · Mar 6, 2011

We bend Biblical truth so we can "feel" more comfortable.

Well some people do that is for sure and when they do I wonder if, in fact, they are really following Christ at all. There are some, for example, that say that abortion is ok but they also claim to follow Christ. And of course there are a myriad of other examples of how God truth is rejected in lieu of what ever someone wants to believe is true yet does not coincide with what God tells us is the real truth. That is what I mean about many claiming to follow Christ yet rejecting what He tells us is true about all of us as people and about what is right and wrong. There is a slipping that is happening but it is nothing new yet it is something that we need to be aware of and let Jesus keep us fresh each day so that we don't slide down this slippery slope. The apostle Paul noted this slope even in his time so it is nothing new. A remnant always remains so hope of revival is always there. Maybe we'll see it in our life time and maybe we won't. In the end God will set all things right no matter what. It is our duty as individuals to stay true no matter what the world says or how many people cave in to the feel good christianity, which is not following Christ or adhering to His word at all.

Sealacamp

Wanda Lee · Mar 6, 2011

sealacamp said:
Well some people do that is for sure and when they do I wonder if, in fact, they are really following Christ at all. There are some, for example, that say that abortion is ok but they also claim to follow Christ. And of course there are a myriad of other examples of how God truth is rejected in lieu of what ever someone wants to believe is true yet does not coincide with what God tells us is the real truth. That is what I mean about many claiming to follow Christ yet rejecting what He tells us is true about all of us as people and about what is right and wrong. There is a slipping that is happening but it is nothing new yet it is something that we need to be aware of and let Jesus keep us fresh each day so that we don't slide down this slippery slope. The apostle Paul noted this slope even in his time so it is nothing new. A remnant always remains so hope of revival is always there. Maybe we'll see it in our life time and maybe we won't. In the end God will set all things right no matter what. It is our duty as individuals to stay true no matter what the world says or how many people cave in to the feel good christianity, which is not following Christ or adhering to His word at all.

Sealacamp

Amen! I think you'd enjoy this
An Open Letter to Seekers – Justin Taylor

mandyangel · Mar 7, 2011

it seems Obama's insane expansion of the government is making the recession worse. my dad owns his own business and Obama's stimulus package completely screwed everything up, he has tried to hire more workers but theres so much uncertainity about Obama yanking taxes up in 2 years that businesses simply dont know what to do.

sanddjam · Mar 8, 2011

sealacamp said:
Government gets bigger because people give away their autonomy and seek to have someone else be responsible for them instead of taking responsibility for themselves. So your analysis of why this is happening is incorrect. Sorry.

Sealacamp

It is very troubling that many people do not know what a Christian is. A Christian is a person who accepts and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ and not Moses, Elijah, or any other prophet in the bible (Deut 18:15-19; Ezekiel 43:23; Matthew 17:4-6; Luke 4:18; John 17:6-8). Christians are to Christ as Americans are to America. Christians need to read the bible for themselves and stop following the status quo or they will end up in hell (Matthew 15:14). Christ came to set the sinners free; He did not come for the righteous. To follow Christ is to have compassion and do what He did to help, change and influence the lives of hurting people. All through the Bible and world history it is noted that no one gives up his anotomy easily because we are all rebellious in nature; it is usually taken from us through force or deceit by greedy, powerful, persistant and power-hungry preditors. The institution of slavery has always been with us, and is still looming especially through the devil. No one desires slavery. That is why the greatest commandment is the love God and to love your neighbor as yourself. This means that whatever you desire for yourself, you desire for your neighbors. Your neighbor is someone that does not look like you, talk like you, think like you, etc (Luke 10:25-37). People need to stop using Christianity as a tool to advance their own agenda. God always sets up good governments to secure an equal playing field for all its constiuents. God bless and protect yourselves from God's eternal judgement. :prayer:

sealacamp · Mar 8, 2011

God always sets up good governments to secure an equal playing field for all its constiuents.

Really? So that means that the anti-Christian communist governments of China, North Korea, and Chile are good? And that God ordained them for His good purpose?

My friend evil is at work and you have misconstrued Gods word to suit your own purpose. What I am telling you is that you are wrong! Our autonomy was secured here in the USA by men who set up a government to protect that autonomy from this prevalent evil that crushes individuals around the world. When we, as Christians, lose our autonomy it is because it is freely given to Christ not taken by some government entity. We are not here to serve the world or any of its governments rather we are here to serve the living God and further His kingdom on this earth, in as much as is possible, prior to spending eternity with Him. In addition you have skewed the passages of Gods word so that the meaning of His statements to us have been twisted. We are set free by the Son of God and any enslavement that we have is to Him not people or government. Finally unless a government reflects the tenants of God and acts upon them then it is not set up by God nor is it good.

So should those in China who, under threat of imprisonment or death, deny Christ and not worship Him? What about those in North Korea should they just bow to the government and deny Christ? How can you say that "God always sets up good governments" when that is clearly false. Our allegiance is to God anyway not to any government what so ever.

Sealacamp

sanddjam · Mar 9, 2011

Mark 12:17
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him.

2 Timothy 2:4
“No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer”.

Romans 13:1-7
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

2 Peter 2:9-11
9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

Mark 7:7
And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

Jeremiah 27
1 In the beginning of the reign of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, this word came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2 “Thus says the LORD to me: ‘Make for yourselves bonds and yokes, and put them on your neck, 3 and send them to the king of Edom, the king of Moab, the king of the Ammonites, the king of Tyre, and the king of Sidon, by the hand of the messengers who come to Jerusalem to Zedekiah king of Judah. 4 And command them to say to their masters, “Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel—thus you shall say to your masters: 5 ‘I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are on the ground, by My great power and by My outstretched arm, and have given it to whom it seemed proper to Me. 6 And now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant; and the beasts of the field I have also given him to serve him. 7 So all nations shall serve him and his son and his son’s son, until the time of his land comes; and then many nations and great kings shall make him serve them. 8 And it shall be, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and which will not put its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation I will punish,’ says the LORD, ‘with the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand. 9 Therefore do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your dreamers, your soothsayers, or your sorcerers, who speak to you, saying, “You shall not serve the king of Babylon.” 10 For they prophesy a lie to you, to remove you far from your land; and I will drive you out, and you will perish. 11 But the nations that bring their necks under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serve him, I will let them remain in their own land,’ says the LORD, ‘and they shall till it and dwell in it.’ 12 I also spoke to Zedekiah king of Judah according to all these words, saying, “Bring your necks under the yoke of the king of Babylon, and serve him and his people, and live! 13 Why will you die, you and your people, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence, as the LORD has spoken against the nation that will not serve the king of Babylon? 14 Therefore do not listen to the words of the prophets who speak to you, saying, ‘You shall not serve the king of Babylon,’ for they prophesy a lie to you; 15 for I have not sent them,” says the LORD, “yet they prophesy a lie in My name, that I may drive you out, and that you may perish, you and the prophets who prophesy to you.”
16 Also I spoke to the priests and to all this people, saying, “Thus says the LORD: ‘Do not listen to the words of your prophets who prophesy to you, saying, “Behold, the vessels of the LORD’s house will now shortly be brought back from Babylon”; for they prophesy a lie to you. 17 Do not listen to them; serve the king of Babylon, and live!

sealacamp · Mar 10, 2011

sanddjam said:
Mark 12:17
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him.

2 Timothy 2:4
No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairshe wants to please his commanding officer.

Romans 13:1-7
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is Gods minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is Gods minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are Gods ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

2 Peter 2:9-11
9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

Mark 7:7
And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

Jeremiah 27
1 In the beginning of the reign of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, this word came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2 Thus says the LORD to me: Make for yourselves bonds and yokes, and put them on your neck, 3 and send them to the king of Edom, the king of Moab, the king of the Ammonites, the king of Tyre, and the king of Sidon, by the hand of the messengers who come to Jerusalem to Zedekiah king of Judah. 4 And command them to say to their masters, Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israelthus you shall say to your masters: 5 I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are on the ground, by My great power and by My outstretched arm, and have given it to whom it seemed proper to Me. 6 And now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant; and the beasts of the field I have also given him to serve him. 7 So all nations shall serve him and his son and his sons son, until the time of his land comes; and then many nations and great kings shall make him serve them. 8 And it shall be, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and which will not put its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation I will punish, says the LORD, with the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand. 9 Therefore do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your dreamers, your soothsayers, or your sorcerers, who speak to you, saying, You shall not serve the king of Babylon. 10 For they prophesy a lie to you, to remove you far from your land; and I will drive you out, and you will perish. 11 But the nations that bring their necks under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serve him, I will let them remain in their own land, says the LORD, and they shall till it and dwell in it. 12 I also spoke to Zedekiah king of Judah according to all these words, saying, Bring your necks under the yoke of the king of Babylon, and serve him and his people, and live! 13 Why will you die, you and your people, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence, as the LORD has spoken against the nation that will not serve the king of Babylon? 14 Therefore do not listen to the words of the prophets who speak to you, saying, You shall not serve the king of Babylon, for they prophesy a lie to you; 15 for I have not sent them, says the LORD, yet they prophesy a lie in My name, that I may drive you out, and that you may perish, you and the prophets who prophesy to you.
16 Also I spoke to the priests and to all this people, saying, Thus says the LORD: Do not listen to the words of your prophets who prophesy to you, saying, Behold, the vessels of the LORDs house will now shortly be brought back from Babylon; for they prophesy a lie to you. 17 Do not listen to them; serve the king of Babylon, and live!

I see you just want to ignore the questions entirely. I am very familiar with scripture and nothing your presented is from you or addresses your wrong headed comment that "God always sets up good governments".

Sealacamp

Gentlemantech48 · Mar 10, 2011

I do believe having a federal government that is too big is very similar to having a king! Our government (and especially our existing president) is very much acting as if they are KING! They have lost the principle that this nation is a nation under God and is also by the people and for the people!

sanddjam · Mar 10, 2011

Remember, we are a Democracy and not a Theocracy or Autocracy. We are a country of many diverse groups and all of them pay taxes and thus have a voice. These include Christians, Jews, sinners, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Satanist, Gays, Lesbians, Atheists, Pro-life, Pro-choice, etc, and a constitution that only requires a presidential candidate to be born in the USA and no less 35 yrs of age. Every group will always desire to have someone in congress to represent them. This country started with Christian pilgrims who were running away from religious domination and thus set up a constitution that would prevent that type of system from rearing its head. Outside of politics, we as Christians must try to influence the other groups by presenting Jesus Christ to them. There is no guarantee that they will accept Him, but at least we could try. Governing a democracy like this one would be very different because every group believes and fights for their constitutional rights as Americans.
Every four years Christians all over the USA pray and fast requesting that God would give us the right people to govern this complicated system of government. He has done it over and over even though we sometimes do not understand or agree with His selections, but He knows what’s best for each season. I know that God listens to the cries of His children and that the devil is not more powerful than He is, but sometimes our actions prove otherwise. God does not need us to defend Him. He could just breathe and wipe us all off the face of the earth. Other religions may kill people to defend their Gods, but we want people to believe and experience our loving God. We are not of this world, we are passing through; we are citizens on heaven.
Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ.
We are given the task of reaching and influencing the world through the love of God that they may receive Christ as their Lord and savior. These people include Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, sinners, Satanist, Gays, Lesbians, Atheists, Pro-choice, gangsters, murderers, self-righteous people, terrorists, adulterers, fornicators, prostitutes, thieves, drug addicts, alcoholics, or anyone who has not receive Jesus as Lord of their lives. We have to befriend them to tell them. The must see the love of God working through us. Jesus has set the example. He came to set them free.

John 3:16
For God so loved (valued) the world (His treasured creation that sinned) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever (sinners) believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 18:36
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.

Luke 4:17-21
17And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written, 18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20And He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21And he began to say unto them, this day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
As Christians, we are anointed and appointed and empowered by God to be transforming agents through love and compassion. American has become a Christian mission field.

Gods warning about big government

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