Lutherans and Predestination
- Thread starter RadixLecti
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Free will is used in two different ways, one horizontally in relationship to this world, the other vertically in relationship to God. In the first, it appears on a daily basis we have “free will” to choose what to eat, what to wear, where to work, etc.
Regarding the second, it helps to look at it this way:
1. Only Adam and Eve had free will in the Garden prior to the fall into sin.
2. After sin entered, then all people have a sinful will, bound toward evil. Notice the change in Gen. 5: where Seth is born, not in the image of God, but in the image of (sinful) Adam. Every child born is born in sin (Psalm 51:5, etc.), spiritually hostile to God (Rom. 8:5-7).
3. After the Spirit makes alive (Eph. 2:4-5), the person now has the constant struggle of the old sinful flesh and the new person regenerated in Christ. The classic statement of that is Rom. 7:14-25. So, at best we can call it tainted free will.
4. When we die/Christ returns, then we will have a bound will to good.
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Predestination: We believe that it is one-side, God chooses for heaven, contrary to Calvinism that accepts two sided (God chooses for heaven and for hell -- refuted by 1 Tim. 2:3-5), and contrary to Arminianism which states that the person can choose either heaven or hell (refuted by Eph. 2:1).
Classic statement is Ephesians 1:3-14, in which “God chooses us in Christ.” Thus, we can never separate predestination from Christ. The issue is: if you want to know whether you are chosen (predestined), then believe in Christ. If you believe in Christ, then you are chosen/predestined. Any other attempt to arrive at the issue of predestination will lead to arrogance or despair.
Too simple, but it gets the point across.
Regarding the second, it helps to look at it this way:
1. Only Adam and Eve had free will in the Garden prior to the fall into sin.
2. After sin entered, then all people have a sinful will, bound toward evil. Notice the change in Gen. 5: where Seth is born, not in the image of God, but in the image of (sinful) Adam. Every child born is born in sin (Psalm 51:5, etc.), spiritually hostile to God (Rom. 8:5-7).
3. After the Spirit makes alive (Eph. 2:4-5), the person now has the constant struggle of the old sinful flesh and the new person regenerated in Christ. The classic statement of that is Rom. 7:14-25. So, at best we can call it tainted free will.
4. When we die/Christ returns, then we will have a bound will to good.
=============
Predestination: We believe that it is one-side, God chooses for heaven, contrary to Calvinism that accepts two sided (God chooses for heaven and for hell -- refuted by 1 Tim. 2:3-5), and contrary to Arminianism which states that the person can choose either heaven or hell (refuted by Eph. 2:1).
Classic statement is Ephesians 1:3-14, in which “God chooses us in Christ.” Thus, we can never separate predestination from Christ. The issue is: if you want to know whether you are chosen (predestined), then believe in Christ. If you believe in Christ, then you are chosen/predestined. Any other attempt to arrive at the issue of predestination will lead to arrogance or despair.
Too simple, but it gets the point across.
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G
grainofsalt
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Only God can make the changes in the heart necessary for a sinner to accept HIM as Lord and Savior. This is why faith cannot be forced. We can however, share the good news with those that want to hear it. God uses the willful sharing of good news to make changes in the hearts of the unsaved. It is only then a person can accept Christ's offer of salvation. Christ knows us inside out and accepts/changes those that WILL truly follow him. God's judgement is righteous and a heartless selfish person does not have a heart that will serve the Good Lord. Therefore, God may choose not to change their heart, or as knowing the future sees the full promise of the person and changes them. Afterall we have FREE WILL even after we are saved.
Therefore we should share the gospel with the willing. We shouldn't force it on those unwilling to accept it. The credit of salvation also goes totally to God. Hearing the word (the bible devinely inspired and written), God changing the heart, sinner accepting Christ/Sinners prayer ONLY after this.
Therefore we should share the gospel with the willing. We shouldn't force it on those unwilling to accept it. The credit of salvation also goes totally to God. Hearing the word (the bible devinely inspired and written), God changing the heart, sinner accepting Christ/Sinners prayer ONLY after this.
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Aibrean
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This is not Lutheran teaching. You are implying God predestines people for hell by not changing their hearts. MAN resists the Holy Spirit! That is why their heart is not changed. Not because of God but because MAN resists.
"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"
God does not want people to go to hell.
LCMS.org said:
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=576
That's a very lengthy but thorough explanation.
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JimfromOhio
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doulos_tou_kuriou
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I think as Lutherans we (or at least I) prefer the term election over predestination to distinguish between the Reformed view of predestination. And I think it more accurately describes our view, since for Lutherans the election to faith by God is as much an active event (in the gifting of faith) as it is a past event (before time outside of history).
The way I might describe it by image comparisons to reformed predestination is this:
Imagine two circles, one circle everyone in it is damned, in the other everyone in it is saved. In the reformed view, God before all time takes all individuals and places them in one or the other circle. Predestining them to heaven or hell. In the Lutheran view, everyone begins in the damned circle, election is God's decision and action to move you from that circle to the saved circle.
It's a bit crude, but I think it is a pretty accurate visual.
But for those who prefer to read the Lutheran eplanation, here is an expert from Lewis Spitz's "Our Church and Others"
The Formula of Concord declares: "The eternal election of God, however, not only foresees and foreknows the salvation of the elect, but through His gracious will and good pleasure in Christ Jesus is also a cause which procures, works, facilitates, and promotes our salvation and whatever pertains thereto; upon it also our salvation is so founded that 'the gates of hell cannot prevail against it' (Matt. 16.18). 'Neither shall any man pluck my sheep out of my hand' (John 10.28)." Declaration, XI, 8
God did not, however, elect or predestine any man or number of men to damnation. Also, those who are lost have been redeemed by Christ, and God earnestly desires their salvation and offers them salvation in the Gospel (2 Peter 2.1; 1 Tim. 2.4). If God earnestly desires the salvation of all men, why is it that some are saved and others are lost? This mystery Lutherans do not try to solve. God is not the cause of man's damnation; man is not the cause of his election to salvation.
The way I might describe it by image comparisons to reformed predestination is this:
Imagine two circles, one circle everyone in it is damned, in the other everyone in it is saved. In the reformed view, God before all time takes all individuals and places them in one or the other circle. Predestining them to heaven or hell. In the Lutheran view, everyone begins in the damned circle, election is God's decision and action to move you from that circle to the saved circle.
It's a bit crude, but I think it is a pretty accurate visual.
But for those who prefer to read the Lutheran eplanation, here is an expert from Lewis Spitz's "Our Church and Others"
The Formula of Concord declares: "The eternal election of God, however, not only foresees and foreknows the salvation of the elect, but through His gracious will and good pleasure in Christ Jesus is also a cause which procures, works, facilitates, and promotes our salvation and whatever pertains thereto; upon it also our salvation is so founded that 'the gates of hell cannot prevail against it' (Matt. 16.18). 'Neither shall any man pluck my sheep out of my hand' (John 10.28)." Declaration, XI, 8
God did not, however, elect or predestine any man or number of men to damnation. Also, those who are lost have been redeemed by Christ, and God earnestly desires their salvation and offers them salvation in the Gospel (2 Peter 2.1; 1 Tim. 2.4). If God earnestly desires the salvation of all men, why is it that some are saved and others are lost? This mystery Lutherans do not try to solve. God is not the cause of man's damnation; man is not the cause of his election to salvation.
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doulos_tou_kuriou
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Another way to systematically look at it is soteriologically speaking, atonement is what Christ does (for all), it is universal and unlimited. But election is what the Holy Spirit does when He elects to give someone faith. It is not universal but is mysteriously particular (that is, we do not know why the Holy Spirit works in this manner).
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Predestination is a part of the gospel, which saves us. It is not a part of the law, which condemns us.
Radix, do you understand that?
Radix, do you understand that?
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