Debt/Tithing/Relationship

CamtheChamp · Dec 3, 2010

Hello,

I have been dating my girlfriend for a year and a half now and we are leaning very close to marriage except for one huge issue. She had to take on a significant amount of debt to cover her sisters necessary medical expenses. That was about 6 years ago and she has paid off about 10% of it since then.

I on the other hand have the same amount of money in savings that she has in debt. I live way below my means and have saved up that money while working during college. She also makes 20% more than me.

We also have two different views on money. She, while in debt, gives freely. I give conservatively. I also personally believe that all types of giving fall under the 10% but 10% is just the starting point.

So she gave this gift to her sister which at the pace she is going will put her in debt for the next 25 years at 6% interest. I personally feel this gift falls under giving so she should put everything she has into paying off this debt, in contrast, she believes she should continue giving to the church and to everyone else.

Everything I have found on this subject refers to people who were very financially irresponsible, spending money on everything, or people with student loans. I don't understand how God could want her to continue to struggle like this when her struggles come from a gift. I calculated that if she lives below her means like me and puts all of her money into her debt, she can pay it off in 1 year and 6 months.

We are now taking a three week break, our first break in our relationship to clear our heads and think through this situation.

While typing this I want my views to be wrong but I am also so against debt. Can someone please show me a new way to view this?

Thanks.

Johnnz · Dec 3, 2010

Tithing is not a NT principle anyway. Any giving as an expression of our relationship with Jesus is valid as a gift. Placing money in an offering i snot the only way we can give. Not need it be money. Look at the widow in Elijah's day and how God honoured that.

John
NZ

Peripatetic · Dec 3, 2010

From a moral and biblical standpoint, I agree with Johnnz that tithing is not a requirement. Most people go into debt buying things for themselves, which isn't generous. Or in a situation like hers, would feel very bitter about giving that money away. Based on what you've said, it sounds like she is a joyful giver. This is certainly a good quality, but it does need to be managed so debt doesn't pile up too much.

From a purely practical perspective, financial incompatibility (where one is a spender and one is a saver) can be a strain on a marriage. I've seen it become a big problem for several couples, including my own parents. Just be sure to go forward with eyes open.

fm107 · Dec 3, 2010

Stick hard to your principles.

It is just plain stupid for someone who is in debt to be giving off their money.

Whilst there are debts to be paid, this should not be done or at least not near to the extent she is doing it.

Once the debt is very little or non-existent, then you can give away whatever you like. But for now, your servant to a master, the money needs to be paid to your creditor.

Proverbs 22:7
The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

jeremymahurin · Dec 3, 2010

I absolutely believe in tithing. I also believe in giving to those in need. I look at them as separate issues. However, I doubt that is the main point of this thread. Before you should marry her, you two need to be on the same page on finances. That is not to say that either of you is right, but you must be able to communicate, compromise and move on. Money is a huge part of marriage and each of your views must be taken seriously. Continue to communicate on issues such as this and pray for God's will to be done in your relationship.

ezeric · Dec 3, 2010

Tithing is not required, and if you do its putting you under the law (self effort)
and not GRACE. You can add nothing or do nothing to add to the gift of JESUS
HIMSELF for us. HIS death and resurrection.

Everything in this NEW Covenant flows out of love. Luke 10:27, Luke 22:20

N.T. giving is a love gift - where the giver wants to give as much and in most
cases MORE than the person receiving it wants to get it!

Like JESUS giving Himself for us, wanted to do that more to set our
feet into true freedom and HE did all that,
showing us Love while we were still sinners. HE wanted to give it, even more any of us wanted to receive it!

The law is love, and love owes no man nothing. Romans 13:8

-eric

E.C. · Dec 4, 2010

Tithe what you can and pay off your debt.

GaryArnold · Dec 4, 2010

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, ACCORDING TO OUR MEANS. The scriptures teach that we are to give FROM WHAT WE HAVE, not from what we do not have.

One of the main causes of divorce in the US is the spouses not agreeing on how the money should be spent. Until you can both agree and be happy with it, the chances of a successful marriage is minimal.

OLD TESTAMENT - THE FIRST OF THE FRUITS SHOULD GO TO GOD
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:”

NEW TESTAMENT - THE WORKER SHOULD BE FIRST TO RECEIVE A SHARE OF THE FRUIT
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

When was the last time you heard a pastor say that you should spend the FIRST part of your income on yourself and your family?

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV) “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

The New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family. We are talking about needs, here, not just anything we want. Then we should give generously from what is left.

Debt is of the devil. She needs to get out of debt as soon as possible. Giving, in the meantime, should be halted or very small and selective.

bliz · Dec 4, 2010

Try very hard not to use language like

very financially irresponsible

if you hope to have this relationship continue.

Rather than talk about this, why don't you write up what several new budgets would look like, and what you envision them accomplishing so she can look at it and react to Budget A, B, or C instead of you? Start with the assumption that all will not be done your way and propose changes that you can live with.

If this becomes "my way or your way" you will have lost regardless of any decisions that get made.

CamtheChamp · Dec 5, 2010

Thank you all for your comments. You have shown me several different ways to look at it.

I guess part of it is how you view debt. I see it as you are in the negative so even after you get your paycheck, you are still in the negative so that money should go to getting out of the negative.

She on the other hand views herself at $0 dollars. This is also the view of the majority of society. It is sort of like paying your phone bill at the end of the month, it will always be there so it can't be viewed as a negative. So when you get your paycheck, you are now in the positive.

GaryArnold, do you have any additional scripture that stresses giving "According to our means?"

I also shouldn't have used tithing in the title, I believe tithing is an old testament law and that we should be cheerful givers.

GaryArnold · Dec 5, 2010

1 Corinthians 16:1-2 (NIV)
1Now about the collection for God’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do.
2On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in
keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be
made.

GaryArnold · Dec 5, 2010

2 Corinthians 8:12 (NIV)
12For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have.

TigerKanga · Dec 5, 2010

CamtheChamp said:
Hello,

I have been dating my girlfriend for a year and a half now and we are leaning very close to marriage except for one huge issue. She had to take on a significant amount of debt to cover her sisters necessary medical expenses. That was about 6 years ago and she has paid off about 10% of it since then.

I on the other hand have the same amount of money in savings that she has in debt. I live way below my means and have saved up that money while working during college. She also makes 20% more than me.

We also have two different views on money. She, while in debt, gives freely. I give conservatively. I also personally believe that all types of giving fall under the 10% but 10% is just the starting point.

So she gave this gift to her sister which at the pace she is going will put her in debt for the next 25 years at 6% interest. I personally feel this gift falls under giving so she should put everything she has into paying off this debt, in contrast, she believes she should continue giving to the church and to everyone else.

Everything I have found on this subject refers to people who were very financially irresponsible, spending money on everything, or people with student loans. I don't understand how God could want her to continue to struggle like this when her struggles come from a gift. I calculated that if she lives below her means like me and puts all of her money into her debt, she can pay it off in 1 year and 6 months.

We are now taking a three week break, our first break in our relationship to clear our heads and think through this situation.

While typing this I want my views to be wrong but I am also so against debt. Can someone please show me a new way to view this?

Thanks.

Do not be with a woman who does not share your views on debt unless you are prepared to have that argument over and over and over for as long as you are with her. People don't change their minds about what money means to them.

canukian · Dec 5, 2010

is she your opposite?

try and find someone who is like you. this type of relationship starts rockier, but is much better in the end. study up on types of relationships as it sounds like this one is a mistake.

do dilligence.

patrickkavanagh · Dec 5, 2010

CamtheChamp said:
Hello,

I have been dating my girlfriend for a year and a half now and we are leaning very close to marriage except for one huge issue. She had to take on a significant amount of debt to cover her sisters necessary medical expenses. That was about 6 years ago and she has paid off about 10% of it since then.

what is the sister doing to repay this loan?
why is this not the bill of the sister?
if this is not addressed and you marry;
~~~ what other obligations will you be tied with?

Mister_Al · Dec 5, 2010

Maybe God has has already sent her the money to pay off her debt. Marry the woman and then pay off your (both) debts.

You can always get more money. So, if you really love her then marry her and don't be concerned about the money part. But, if you don't love her then don't. You should be thinking about your lives together and not about the money.

2 Corinthians 9:7 (Amplified Bible)

7) Let each one [give] as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart, not reluctantly or sorrowfully or under compulsion, for God loves (He takes pleasure in, prizes above other things, and is unwilling to abandon or to do without) a cheerful (joyous, "prompt to do it") giver [whose heart is in his giving].

Blessings,

Alan

joepierce1988 · Jan 1, 2011

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, ACCORDING TO OUR MEANS. The scriptures teach that we are to give FROM WHAT WE HAVE, not from what we do not have.

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