The 'Good News'

Maybe you want to ask the mods to move this to the Christians Only Philosophy & Ethics section.

I'll give this a shot. I believe that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a description of the new covenant put forth for humanity. As the the laws of the Bible, I believe these were given as a demonstration of how unable humanity is to live up to God's standards. I don't think we shouldn't try to obey the laws, I just don't think we are capable of following all of the Lord's laws perfectly. That's why he sent His Son, to help us out.

At least that's what I think.

butterflyring09 said:

Words like evil, sin, eternal hellfire, and wickedness and following the laws of God.. stir up a strong discomfort and even offensive feelings in the bellies of (lukewarm) believers and unbelievers alike.

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Are you or where you at one point a "Lukewarm" believer?

butterflyring09 said:

What's really hilarious (coming from a born-again Christian-but-once an-unbeliever standpoint), is that the 'good news' of the Gospel... never really appears to be good news at all to unbelievers (and even lukewarm Christians).

Especially, if you don't believe in an afterlife and when one simply quotes to another the Word of God.

Words like evil, sin, eternal hellfire, and wickedness and following the laws of God.. stir up a strong discomfort and even offensive feelings in the bellies of (lukewarm) believers and unbelievers alike.

To them, the Word of God may seem like a bunch of hogwash created by man to control the behaviors of other people and to exploit them.

It seems to completely blind the eyes of non-believers and lukewarmers, to believe that God created the world to torture people because He KNEW they could not be perfect like Him anyway...

Though the good news.. is that God said that if you only call on the name of Jesus and repent (be sincerely apologetic and turn away from lawless ways) God is faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Moreover, by your enduring faith in Christ Jesus, you are promised eternal life in paradise on Earth for... eternity.

What is your stance on the whole Gospel of Jesus Christ (believer or unbeliever).. and DOING what the Laws in the Bible say?

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Why do you continue to claim the Bible is the "Word of God" - that's idolatry.

the problem is. Besides you telling us "the good news" we've also got.. jews, muslims, hindus, satanists, catholics, young earth creationists, protestants, muslims2.0, scientologists and thousands of other religions or different versions of the same religion all tell us "The good news" but you all seem to disagree on everything. And you all cite the same evidence. which is to say either non at all, evidence that falls appart at closer inspection or "Look at the trees! god did it."

So yeah its a lil uncomfortable trying to keep a straight face while being told the good news version 52.351.

It also doesnt help that oddly enough every single one of those versions gets 'updated' when the society moves on. Like now all of a suddenly god is not cool with slavery anymore.

But really, I do not mind that you believe you of all the thousands of others just happen to have the one true word of god on your side, good for you and I hope it brings you happiness.

Belk said:

Are you or where you at one point a "Lukewarm" believer?

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Can we get a definition of a "lukewarm" believer first? Does rejecting the fundamentalist view constitute being "lukewarm" ?

Jase said:

Can we get a definition of a "lukewarm" believer first? Does rejecting the fundamentalist view constitute being "lukewarm" ?

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I'm pretty sure lukewarm means "anyone who disagrees with me in the slightest"

butterflyring09 said:

What's really hilarious (coming from a born-again Christian-but-once an-unbeliever standpoint), is that the 'good news' of the Gospel... never really appears to be good news at all to unbelievers (and even lukewarm Christians).

Especially, if you don't believe in an afterlife and when one simply quotes to another the Word of God.

Words like evil, sin, eternal hellfire, and wickedness and following the laws of God.. stir up a strong discomfort and even offensive feelings in the bellies of (lukewarm) believers and unbelievers alike.

To them, the Word of God may seem like a bunch of hogwash created by man to control the behaviors of other people and to exploit them.

It seems to completely blind the eyes of non-believers and lukewarmers, to believe that God created the world to torture people because He KNEW they could not be perfect like Him anyway...

Though the good news.. is that God said that if you only call on the name of Jesus and repent (be sincerely apologetic and turn away from lawless ways) God is faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Moreover, by your enduring faith in Christ Jesus, you are promised eternal life in paradise on Earth for... eternity.

What is your stance on the whole Gospel of Jesus Christ (believer or unbeliever).. and DOING what the Laws in the Bible say?

Click to expand...

You're a horrible person. I don't think you should be allowed to be happy, ever, because of all the awful things you say and do.


See, if I was being serious, there, you'd be pretty miffed, right? It's kind of annoying when people who haven't got the slightest clue about me come up and tell me I'm basically scum and that I deserve to be punished forever for not thinking how they do.

You know my views on the bible, it's a book written by men, to control men.

butterflyring09 said:

Words like evil, sin, eternal hellfire, and wickedness and following the laws of God.. stir up a strong discomfort and even offensive feelings in the bellies of (lukewarm) believers and unbelievers alike.

Click to expand...

You may be an expert on a lot of things but not on my feelings.
These words, since I don´t believe they point to something existing, don´t cause me discomfort or offensive feelings but more like indifference.

butterflyring09 said:

What's really hilarious (coming from a born-again Christian-but-once an-unbeliever standpoint), is that the 'good news' of the Gospel... never really appears to be good news at all to unbelievers (and even lukewarm Christians).

Especially, if you don't believe in an afterlife and when one simply quotes to another the Word of God.

Words like evil, sin, eternal hellfire, and wickedness and following the laws of God.. stir up a strong discomfort and even offensive feelings in the bellies of (lukewarm) believers and unbelievers alike.

Click to expand...

Yes, because everyone knows that there's no reason to find being called evil, sinful, wicked, or deserving of eternal torture to be offensive.

By the way, I think you're blindly following an outdated dogma that promotes cruelty, slavery, genocide, intolerance, and thoughtless obedience and doing so has deprived you of many happy and intellectually stimulating relationships you might have had with real people, not to mention squelching your curiosity and ability to appreciate the true beauty and wonder of the universe.

Do you find this offensive? Does it cause you discomfort? Do you refuse to agree with me?

Why is it surprising that I would feel the same way about the things you and people like you say to me?

What is your stance on the whole Gospel of Jesus Christ (believer or unbeliever).. and DOING what the Laws in the Bible say?

Click to expand...

The gospel of J.C. has some good underlying principles and some fine advice about how to treat other people, as well as some antiquated and barbaric ideas about punishment (both in this life and any possible next ones) and besides being a loose philosophical guide to morality, it has a long and interesting history of growth and change. As far as actually obeying every letter in the Bible... I think the world would be a much bloodier, unhappier place if everyone did. For referential evidence, I would direct you to a lovely couple centuries known as the 'Dark Ages'.

Jade Margery said:

I think the world would be a much bloodier, unhappier place if everyone did. For referential evidence, I would direct you to a lovely couple centuries known as the 'Dark Ages'.

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Can you show me Jade the Christian principles the people of the dark ages applied in their everyday life

and

The Good news of the bible is lost on a society that has become immune to responsibility and a encouraged a dull conscience

Monarchist said:

Can you show me Jade the Christian principles the people of the dark ages applied in their everyday life

and

The Good news of the bible is lost on a society that has become immune to responsibility and a encouraged a dull conscience

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Funny, I didn't think we lived in a theocracy.

Ayersy said:

Funny, I didn't think we lived in a theocracy.

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Funny we dont
So whats your point

Monarchist said:

Can you show me Jade the Christian principles the people of the dark ages applied in their everyday life

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Well... something like "be[ing] sincerely apologetic and turn[ing] away from lawless ways" and by all means making sure that everyone who does not either conforms or is eradicated from society.

The Good news of the bible is lost on a society that has become immune to responsibility and a encouraged a dull conscience

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As I see it, this is one of the major problems with adhering to such an unexplainable philosophical construct as Christianity is: you can only chose to follow to potential ways.

First, actively promote your views, with whatever means you can fathom. After all, nothing you can do to other humans can be as bad as the fate awaiting them in eternal hell. If they repent under social pressure up to torture and execution, it´s great for them! And if they don´t, they were unsavable sinners to start with and not worthy salvation.
This is an approach that has prevailed for hundreds of years and has righly be called "the Dark Ages".

Or you could take a passive stance, do nothing by repeatedly and without change throw your mantra to the masses, wonder why they don´t agree without question, and reach the conclusion that "it´s all their fault" and "they are wicked and loving it!". This indeed does make you "immune to responsibility".... your responsibility.
It also dehumanizes your fellow humans - not only the "unbelievers" but also your fellow Christians, pardon, "Christians".

Most modern Christians seem to have taken the second approach, with their "oh, I can´t convince you, only God can do it".
And most of the "dialogue" with unbelievers (or talk about unbelievers) seems to consist of rationalizations for why God does not do it.

And, because of the wonderful "immunization to responsibility", they are quick to find out who is to blame when God does not do it: never God, never the Christian... always the unbeliever.

And then they can´t understand why people shake their heads in wonder about this kind of "good news".

so whats your point

butterflyring09 said:

What's really hilarious (coming from a born-again Christian-but-once an-unbeliever standpoint), is that the 'good news' of the Gospel... never really appears to be good news at all to unbelievers (and even lukewarm Christians).

Click to expand...

That's because it isn't good news. It means that if one has non-believing loved ones who die as non-believers, they might possibly be suffering for an eternity. Where is the good news in that?

The only people for whom the Gospel could truly be good news are those who believe that God will punish everyone in the afterlife. In that case, the idea of an escape clause would be good news.

But the "good news" you are talking about, to a non-believer, is mainly Bad News.

Words like evil, sin, eternal hellfire, and wickedness and following the laws of God.. stir up a strong discomfort and even offensive feelings in the bellies of (lukewarm) believers and unbelievers alike.

Click to expand...

No, they don't. Not unless they are directed at me, and the offense I feel is simply the hostility or negativity of the person directing those words at me.

I would also feel offended if, hypothetically, I were told by a Hindu that she was much more spiritual and wise than I simply because I'm an atheist, and that I must be living in ignorance and emptiness. Or that she disapproved of my life so much that she thought the negative karma I was generating would cause me to reincarnate as a cockroach.

I don't have to believe in the truth of Hinduism to take offense at such negative character appraisals, mindreading, or predictions of my future. There is a kind of arrogance and negativity about them.

To them, the Word of God may seem like a bunch of hogwash created by man to control the behaviors of other people and to exploit them.

Click to expand...

I don't personally hold to that view.

Moreover, by your enduring faith in Christ Jesus, you are promised eternal life in paradise on Earth for... eternity.

Click to expand...

And those non-Christian loved ones are screwed for... eternity! lulz


eudaimonia,

Mark

Jase said:

Why do you continue to claim the Bible is the "Word of God" - that's idolatry.

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I've never liked that phrase either. The bible is the "words" of God.

Eudaimonist said:

That's because it isn't good news. It means that if one has non-believing loved ones who die as non-believers, they might possibly be suffering for an eternity. Where is the good news in that?

The only people for whom the Gospel could truly be good news are those who believe that God will punish everyone in the afterlife. In that case, the idea of an escape clause would be good news.

But the "good news" you are talking about, to a non-believer, is mainly Bad News.



No, they don't. Not unless they are directed at me, and the offense I feel is simply the hostility or negativity of the person directing those words at me.

I would also feel offended if, hypothetically, I were told by a Hindu that she was much more spiritual and wise than I simply because I'm an atheist, and that I must be living in ignorance and emptiness. Or that she disapproved of my life so much that she thought the negative karma I was generating would cause me to reincarnate as a cockroach.

I don't have to believe in the truth of Hinduism to take offense at such negative character appraisals, mindreading, or predictions of my future. There is a kind of arrogance and negativity about them.



I don't personally hold to that view.



And those non-Christian loved ones are screwed for... eternity! lulz


eudaimonia,

Mark

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Mark, you are unwittingly presenting a strawman arguement. Here's the scoop. There is no biblical basis for an ever-burning hell for the unbeliever. They simply cease to exist. No afterlife, but no pain and suffering for eternity. The believer will live forever, not even remembering loved ones who were not called ("even the memory of them will cease") so we will not agonize over those left behind. It's all good. owg