Are Narcissists born or raised?

memoriesbymichelle · Aug 11, 2010

Are Narcissists born or raised? A

Are they a product of their environment or is it something genetic. I just realized that I have a few (I realized some of them awhile ago just not all lol) narcissists in my husbands family. I have one family member that goes on and on and on about how they did this or that, and caused this or that to be better, and if it weren't for them and all they do, blah.blah, blah. If you started counting "I"'s you would be over 50 in less than 60. So it got me thinking. This particular family member wasn't spoiled and in fact had to work very hard to get where they are, so it doesn't seem like environment, but since it's 3 members actually 4 if you count the parent, that are ALL this way. It's very tiring, but it just got me thinking....did they learn this behavior as a way to cope, or can they help it?

K9_Trainer · Aug 11, 2010

I think there may be certain personality types that could be predisposed to it. Some people will actually identify their accomplishments as themselves, they ARE their accomplishments. Ironically I was just studying this.

But in other words, I'm giving you the standard answer that most psychologists would give. Nature AND nurture.

Blank123 · Aug 11, 2010

its the age old question: what affects behaviour? nature or nurture.

I'd tend to think its both nature and nurture. We're all born with a sin nature that makes us think of ourselves first and foremost, but that can be made much much worse I think depending on the environment you were raised in. If thats the example that was set for them, then it makes sense that they'd grow up being much more self-involved than most people.

ImperialPhantom · Aug 11, 2010

I'd say it's 2/3 nurture, 1/3 nature. People have reasons (insecurities) that lead to narcissism, and I'd say if the stimuli for those insecurities weren't there to begin with, the narcissism would be a lot less.

StarryEyes · Aug 11, 2010

I'm not sure.. but I know we all have a sinful nature and we are all in desperate need of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! None of us is without sin.

memoriesbymichelle · Aug 11, 2010

Oh I absolutely agree we are all sinners but I'm not really in the mindset of trying to "classify" this as some sort of sin necessarily. Just a curious thought because it would make a difference. For example sociopaths (IMO only I could be wrong) are just genetically or whatever off somehow that they really can't control. They can "act" differently but thats what I was thinking about if they are naturally like that, there may be nothing they can do about it and if they, say for example didn't get praised or felt insecure as a child they may very well "learn" to cope by announcing their accomplishments and it also may be this is what defines "them" too. IDK and that is why I was asking. I just looking for other perspectives that's all. So if its both......OK I know Jesus can change anyone and everyone but what if they are believers already...can they change or will they? Doesn't matter either way, just curious again.

white dove · Aug 11, 2010

Sociopaths. Yes, I was thinking about that as I was reading through this. I agree that there is something to be said for both nature and the environment in which someone is raised/lives. Both sociopathic and narcissistic disorders are personality disorders and as such, both contributing factors (nature and environment) are pointed at as root causes.

Does this person ever offer credit to others or is this person always the "savior?" Are there any indicators that this person respects others (including their authority) or does he/she always need to be right?

Blank123 · Aug 11, 2010

memoriesbymichelle said:
Oh I absolutely agree we are all sinners but I'm not really in the mindset of trying to "classify" this as some sort of sin necessarily. Just a curious thought because it would make a difference. For example sociopaths (IMO only I could be wrong) are just genetically or whatever off somehow that they really can't control. They can "act" differently but thats what I was thinking about if they are naturally like that, there may be nothing they can do about it and if they, say for example didn't get praised or felt insecure as a child they may very well "learn" to cope by announcing their accomplishments and it also may be this is what defines "them" too. IDK and that is why I was asking. I just looking for other perspectives that's all. So if its both......OK I know Jesus can change anyone and everyone but what if they are believers already...can they change or will they? Doesn't matter either way, just curious again.

If they're repentant and are submitting to the Holy Spirit, yes they can change. It won't be easy because its likely very deeply ingrained in them. But all things are possible with Christ.

memoriesbymichelle · Aug 11, 2010

white dove said:
Sociopaths. Yes, I was thinking about that as I was reading through this. I agree that there is something to be said for both nature and the environment in which someone is raised/lives. Both sociopathic and narcissistic disorders are personality disorders and as such, both contributing factors (nature and environment) are pointed at as root causes.

Does this person ever offer credit to others or is this person always the "savior?" Are there any indicators that this person respects others (including their authority) or does he/she always need to be right?

Well...they occasionally do give credit to others, but it's slight and they always (of course) do more and have the job of saving everyone. They do show respect for others it's just tiring sometimes because if you have something that you share they always (and sometimes before you finish) seem to feel they need to one up you or something (it's weird) Like you say, well I was talking to so and so and he asked for my advice and this is what I told him, and then they come back with they saved 20 souls last week or something (I'm exaggerating but you get the point). And I will say they are very loved and adored, it's not like they are evil or anything, but others do notice the "I's" have it. But they really don't "see it" (the narcissist) IDK

RobertMerton · Aug 12, 2010

they are raised.

product of enviroment.

though OP in your initial post,
i wouldn't consider that narciccism.

they have just worked hard, and are proud of what they've achieved.
perhaps they are taking just a little more credit then they deserve, but that's human nature.

white dove · Aug 12, 2010

memoriesbymichelle said:
Well...they occasionally do give credit to others, but it's slight and they always (of course) do more and have the job of saving everyone. They do show respect for others it's just tiring sometimes because if you have something that you share they always (and sometimes before you finish) seem to feel they need to one up you or something (it's weird) Like you say, well I was talking to so and so and he asked for my advice and this is what I told him, and then they come back with they saved 20 souls last week or something (I'm exaggerating but you get the point). And I will say they are very loved and adored, it's not like they are evil or anything, but others do notice the "I's" have it. But they really don't "see it" (the narcissist) IDK

It would be really difficult to deal with that type of person. I know someone who is like that, borderline sociopathic.. and I am (sorry to say this, but it's honest) very glad that person is not even close to being in my life right now. I would hear stories about how much of a strain was being placed on others in that person's life and it drove me bonkers because I was hoping that they would find some sort of way to confront this person, get them into therapy and sure enough, as soon as the therapy began it was like "Well.. this is what's wrong and this is why I am how I am. Nothing's wrong with how I'm doing all of this stuff though." Supposedly knew even more than the professional! :doh:

Another person I know is someone who reminds me a bit more of the person you're talking about as I read through that. Always needing to be the focal point. I think in this person's case, they had to grow up far quicker than the norm. They were the parent to their siblings and as such, may never have felt that the attention was on them as a child. I'm totally guessing, but it's a possibility. The way that I used to deal with this person? Wine lol. But, what I do is I try to get the focus on others, too; let them share in the spotlight once in awhile. I'll ask other people how they did such and such or I'll focus on their achievements. If the narcissist keeps grabbing the spotlight though, it only makes them look needy.

ProAntiRevolution · Aug 12, 2010

We're all born narcissists. A child's view of the world is completed centered on it's own wants and needs; it's all Id and has no developed ego or super-ego. It's only through the maturing process that the child develops these and learns to see him/herself in relation to other people. Developing a sense of the needs of others and how to prioritize the needs of others and one's personal needs. The rate at which this develops is almost entirely environmental. It's why it's a big no-no to label children sociopaths. In a developmental state a child that will grow up to be an emotionally healthy adult can display signs of sociopathic behaviors and/or narcissistic personality disorder. But it is not set in stone that development above these behaviors is impossible. Whereas for an adult sociopath there is no proof that any treatment is even remotely possible.

Of course, we all develop a different priority set for where our needs fall in relation to those of others. Again, this is completely dependent on environmental factors. Only children, for example, tend towards greater levels of narcissism because they are not as accustomed to sharing resources. How parents interact with their children, does the child constantly learn that they are the most important thing in the world? Or do mom and dad impress upon the child that the needs of adults are just as valid and will sometimes take precedent over the wants of children.

So in short, we're all born narcissists. But our environment shapes how much we mature out of that condition.

Rosalila · Aug 12, 2010

It's nurture for the most part. .and it's also extremely hard to help a narcissist because they think they're always right. And it all stems from low self esteem. They act that way to protect themselves. I'm a co narcissist and my parents are narcissists so I have been doing some research. My favorite article on the subject is "Co-Narcissism: How We Accommodate to Narcissistic Parents" by Alan Rappoport, Ph.D. Here's where he talks about it being a nurture issue:

"To the best of my
knowledge, every narcissistic and conarcissistic
person that I have encountered
has had narcissistic parents, and the parents
of their parents are reported to have been
even more highly narcissistic."
. .thought I can see that as being interpreted as a nature issue too.

"Narcissistic people blame others for their
own problems. They tend not to seek
psychotherapy because they fear that the
therapist will see them as deficient and
therefore are highly defensive in relation to
therapists. They do not feel free or safe
enough to examine their own behavior, and
typically avoid the psychotherapy situation."

It's a good article.

http://www.alanrappoport.com/pdf/Co-Narcissism%20Article.pdf

memoriesbymichelle · Aug 12, 2010

ck_psy said:
they are raised.

product of enviroment.

though OP in your initial post,
i wouldn't consider that narciccism.

they have just worked hard, and are proud of what they've achieved.
perhaps they are taking just a little more credit then they deserve, but that's human nature.[/quote]

Naw, I hate to say it, it's ALOT more than that, cuz it's not JUST about their acheivements, it's about EVERYTHING lol. Still love em though, just trying to understand.

memoriesbymichelle · Aug 12, 2010

white dove said:
It would be really difficult to deal with that type of person. I know someone who is like that, borderline sociopathic.. and I am (sorry to say this, but it's honest) very glad that person is not even close to being in my life right now. I would hear stories about how much of a strain was being placed on others in that person's life and it drove me bonkers because I was hoping that they would find some sort of way to confront this person, get them into therapy and sure enough, as soon as the therapy began it was like "Well.. this is what's wrong and this is why I am how I am. Nothing's wrong with how I'm doing all of this stuff though." Supposedly knew even more than the professional!

Another person I know is someone who reminds me a bit more of the person you're talking about as I read through that. Always needing to be the focal point. I think in this person's case, they had to grow up far quicker than the norm. They were the parent to their siblings and as such, may never have felt that the attention was on them as a child. I'm totally guessing, but it's a possibility. The way that I used to deal with this person? Wine lol. But, what I do is I try to get the focus on others, too; let them share in the spotlight once in awhile. I'll ask other people how they did such and such or I'll focus on their achievements. If the narcissist keeps grabbing the spotlight though, it only makes them look needy.

BINGO!!!! I know they will never change (unless the Lord changes them and THEY want it) but it's very tiring and then it got me thinking "Hey, no WONDER I'm so worn out, cuz there is more than one narcissist!" And then......I started this thread lol. The end

memoriesbymichelle · Aug 12, 2010

Rosalila said:
It's nurture for the most part. .and it's also extremely hard to help a narcissist because they think they're always right. And it all stems from low self esteem. They act that way to protect themselves. I'm a co narcissist and my parents are narcissists so I have been doing some research. My favorite article on the subject is "Co-Narcissism: How We Accommodate to Narcissistic Parents" by Alan Rappoport, Ph.D. Here's where he talks about it being a nurture issue:

"To the best of my
knowledge, every narcissistic and conarcissistic
person that I have encountered
has had narcissistic parents, and the parents
of their parents are reported to have been
even more highly narcissistic."
. .thought I can see that as being interpreted as a nature issue too.

"Narcissistic people blame others for their
own problems. They tend not to seek
psychotherapy because they fear that the
therapist will see them as deficient and
therefore are highly defensive in relation to
therapists. They do not feel free or safe
enough to examine their own behavior, and
typically avoid the psychotherapy situation."

It's a good article.

http://www.alanrappoport.com/pdf/Co-Narcissism Article.pdf

Yep, I think that's another BINGO! BTW I've never heard of Co-narcissists? Can you give me a brief description?

memoriesbymichelle · Aug 12, 2010

ProAntiRevolution said:
We're all born narcissists. A child's view of the world is completed centered on it's own wants and needs; it's all Id and has no developed ego or super-ego. It's only through the maturing process that the child develops these and learns to see him/herself in relation to other people. Developing a sense of the needs of others and how to prioritize the needs of others and one's personal needs. The rate at which this develops is almost entirely environmental. It's why it's a big no-no to label children sociopaths. In a developmental state a child that will grow up to be an emotionally healthy adult can display signs of sociopathic behaviors and/or narcissistic personality disorder. But it is not set in stone that development above these behaviors is impossible. Whereas for an adult sociopath there is no proof that any treatment is even remotely possible.

Of course, we all develop a different priority set for where our needs fall in relation to those of others. Again, this is completely dependent on environmental factors. Only children, for example, tend towards greater levels of narcissism because they are not as accustomed to sharing resources. How parents interact with their children, does the child constantly learn that they are the most important thing in the world? Or do mom and dad impress upon the child that the needs of adults are just as valid and will sometimes take precedent over the wants of children.

So in short, we're all born narcissists. But our environment shapes how much we mature out of that condition.

BBM THIS!!!! Great post! OK so now then.....what is the best way to be able to be around these types and handle it without them sucking all the life out of you for NOT trying to disagree with them or steal their spotlight (not that they would LET you anyway) lol.
Real question I'm asking myself: What is God trying to teach me in this? Why is this on my heart? Maybe something I need to change in myself? (which of course is always the case)

Rosalila · Aug 12, 2010

memoriesbymichelle said:
Yep, I think that's another BINGO! BTW I've never heard of Co-narcissists? Can you give me a brief description?

OK, I'll try lol. Co narcissism develops from having a narcissistic parent (one is enough. .and usually the other parent is a co narcissist, so both have been modeled for the child). It's a reaction to narcissistic parents where the child learns to submit to the parents opinions and wishes in order to earn their love and affection. They learned that without submitting or complying the parents would punish them (financially, emotionally withdraw) in some way. Because narcissistic parents view their children only as extensions of themselves, they place a little too much emphasis on appearances and how their child makes THEM look to the outside world. They only value their child to the extent that he or she pleases them and never as individuals. As a result, this affects all the child's/adults relationships. .co narcissists often take the back seat in conversations, it's hard for them to make decisions and to be sure of themselves on their opinions, they feel that when they act assertively they're being selfish (because more than likely the parent accused them of this a good amount of times for not complying). .and they try to avoid conflict at all costs. It's basically the opposite of narcissism, though both are rooted in low self esteem and "Both are ways of defending oneself from fears resulting from internalized criticisms and of coping with people who evoke these criticisms." And a co narcissist can act narcissisticly at times, when they feel their self esteem is being threatened.

Apollo Celestio · Aug 13, 2010

Woah, we have some Freud in here. My inclination would be to make myself disappear. >_> <_<

lostaquarium · Aug 13, 2010

We are all narcissists

Some of us hide it better than others.

Are Narcissists born or raised?

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(she's a) maniac

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Deal with it.

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