Just a "few" questions

Nuka · May 1, 2010

Hello, I am a life-long Agnostic, I never grew up with any religion, despite my entire family tree being devout Eastern Orthodox Christians, but skipping my life story, I just want to ask the Christians on this forum several questions about Christianity that have always puzzled me for years and years.

Now, I want to say this beforehand, I MAY say something that can possibly offend you if you're a devout Christian. Just saying.

Unto the questions.
(Please note that some of the questions were inspired, and some others directly taken from someone else)

1. Why did God punish Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit? Adam and Eve prior to eating the fruit had no concept of pain, evil, what is good and what is right, death, or pretty much anything, why was god 'surprised' (So to say) when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit? Did he not know that there was a virtually 100% chance of them eventually eating the fruit because they had no idea that eating the fruit was the wrong thing to do UNTIL they actually ate it? Plus, if he didn't want them to eat it, why did he let them, or why did he even let the Devil, who convinced them both to eat the apple, into the Garden of Eden in the first place?
Even if this were all intentional, or if God knew it would happen, being omnipotent and everything, why did he not create Adam and Eve with the knowledge of the forbidden fruit in the first place, let alone punish them even when they explained that the devil tricked them into eating the forbidden fruit?

2. Is God a truly kind, forgiving and understanding God? Because from what I can deduct he is not, because apparently from what the Bible teaches, simply not believing in him is something worth spending an eternity in a lake of fire and brimstone where you shall forever choke and scream and suffer and cry and weep and burn until the end of time as we know it...But apparently, he loves us.
I cannot accept god doing/being both at the same time, either he truly loves and cares about mankind or he is willing to send us to a plane of never ending torture for simply questioning what a 5,000-or-so-year old archaic book teaches.

3. Why is it taught that we are born with sin, as babies we are evil and depraved? Does this not mock the fact that you need to be able to understand what is good or evil before being labeled a "Sinner"?

4. Kind of reminiscent to question 2, why would god create life, human life that is, only to send the majority of anyone and everyone who ever lived to Hell for not believing in him? Is god really that evil as to create billions upon billions of sentient beings only to send them all to hell?

5. "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

6. Can the 10 commandments be defied without being a sin, at all? Thou shalt not kill - what if you kill someone in an act of genuine self defense? Thou shalt not bear false witness - What about if you tell a lie that could save someones life?

7. Furthermore about the 10 commandments, why is it that rape, torture, child abuse, racism, and slavery, among other horrible things, suspiciously don't have a say in the 10 commandments?

8. Why do Christians pick verses from the Bible to support their claims and beliefs but denying the few/many that don't? If for instance the Old Testament were to be used as a moral guide today, you cannot simply pick the verses or teachings of a few passages and ignore the rest, either you believe everything the New/Old testament says, or you believe nothing they say, there's no "In-between". I'm sorry but this is my pet peeve.

9. Do most Christians realize that they dismiss tens of thousands of other of religions as fake, and yet Atheists/Agnostics simply dismiss just 1 more than that?

10. Why are do most Christians feel insulted and "Dehumanized" when scientists claim we evolved from lesser life, but have no problem with the Biblical claim that the first humans were forged from dust and dirt?

11. Christians usually point to god as a source of creation, including the creation of the universe, and for some, the creation of the Earth. But then who created god? It's a startling jump from answering everything with "God did it" to "Well we can't explain everything about the Universe as of now and most likely never can"

12. (Continuation from above) If you are to say that the existence of a God is an unanswerable question, why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the Universe is an unanswerable question? If you are to say that God has always existed, then why not save a step and conclude that the Universe has always existed? -Carl Sagan

13. Do the majority of Christians see the story of Noah's Ark as true? Because of all the stories the bible teaches I see this one as the most illogical and fallible. Let me explain - How could have Noah fit 2 of all 1.8 Million species of plants, animals, birds, insects, fungus, and other things unto a single raft? How could have Noah had the resources (Food, water)
to keep all of those animals alive for several months and somehow keep all of that food and water on the same raft he is carrying these millions of species on? And furthermore, how could have Noah have managed to travel all around the world, unto every single continent, island, and archipelago, (INCLUDING Antarctica, Australia, North and South America, etc.), and manually have picked up 2 of every single species there, and after that, redistribute each and every species to the exact location and environment it had lived in prior to the great flood, all within possibly a few days time? I just. Doesn't. Make. Sense.

14. Why do you describe a 1% success rate for prayers a "High percentage" and proof as to prayer actually works, but dismiss the other 99% failed prayers as "God's will"?

15. Last, but certainly not least...
Let me put this into perspective for you - Try to imagine every single planet in this Universe that harbors intelligent life, try to imagine every single intelligent being that has, will, and always will live in this plane of existence, try to imagine every single civilization on every single planet on every single solar system on every single galaxy that is, has, and will exist in all of time, NOW try to imagine that for each and every intelligent civilization, there can be hundreds, nay, THOUSANDS of religions for each and every one of those civilizations, and you, as Christians, will be the only ones permitted into heaven while the uncountable trillions among trillions of other life-forms that don't share your exact beliefs will forever burn in a hell of eternal suffering, and yet you consider your religion to be the most "Tolerant" and "Loving"?

That's all for now, I hope some of the people on this forum can answer my questions, and I hope I did not offend anyone too badly with my ranting and raving. :sorry:

Van · May 2, 2010

Hi Nuka, I see you have rounded up the usual suspects.

1)Did Adam and Eve have any concept of pain, suffering and death before they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Yes. The idea that there was no pain, suffering and death before the fall has almost no support in scripture. Second, since they were familiar with the concept of death, for God told them they would die, it is reasonable to assume the cycle of life existed from the beginning, with birth, life, procreation and death found throughout nature. Does the Bible say pain suffering and physical death were the result of the fall? Nope. To the contrary, it says pain, suffering and death were the "first things."

Did God arrange the fall? Yes. He chose our Redeemer, the Lamb of God before creation, before the fall, and you do not choose a Redeemer unless your plan also includes folks who need redemption.

2)Eternal torment for anyone who does not believe seems to demonstrate that God is not kind or forgiving. The folks who are tossed into the Lake of Fire will be punished for their misdeeds, no more and no less, then they will be destroyed.

3)We are conceived in iniquity, in a sinful state, separated from God. But we have done nothing good or bad. If we live long enough and are not feeble minded, we will volitionally sin, knowing what is right and not doing it.

4)God created mankind for His purpose, to choose a people for His own possession. Those not chosen will be treated justly.

5) God is able but not willing to prevent what we call evil to fulfill His purpose of creation.

6) The moral code tells us what we should do, acting as individuals. It does not tell us what to do when acting under the cover of governmental authority. Thus "you shall not murder" applies to us acting as individuals, but a police-person can use lethal force to protect the weak. Similarly, we shall not lie acting as individuals, but military action often uses deception to minimize loss of life.

7) The moral code includes do unto others as you would have them do unto you and love your neighbor as yourself. These preclude mistreatment of others.

8) The New covenant replaced the Old covenant. Only those portions of the Old Covenant endorsed by Christ apply to us today. Both the Old and New Testaments reveal this truth.

9) Do Christians realize that atheists disbelieve one more god than Christians? Yes

10) It is the claim that life came about without God that Christians reject.

11) Christians start with the concept that in the beginning only God existed, and He existed eternally, without a beginning so He was not created. I think it is very difficult to explain the existence of our universe without relying on something uncreated, something that always was.

12) The universe has not always existed, it started with the Big Bang. What existed before the Big Bang is speculation and my speculation is God.

13) The area covered by the flood (local or worldwide) is in dispute, but the account certainly makes it clear the flood covered the area they knew about. In the new testament Jesus fed thousands of people from one person's lunch. This was a miracle, and whatever logistical problems the Ark presents can be answered with God's provision.

14) I do not describe 1% of something as a high percentage. Prayers that in effect put God to the test are not prayers that will be answered.

15) I think it is fair to say the Bible indicates God created our solar system to provide our life sustaining environment. Did He also do something similar elsewhere? The Bible does not say.

May God Bless

talitha · May 2, 2010

1. God was not surprised when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. They knew it was the wrong thing to do because He told them it was. He let them eat it because He created them with free wills. The devil and his minions were on this planet before people were. We were placed here to overcome the devil. The Bible calls Jesus the "lamb slain from the foundation of the world." The whole thing was a grand plan with Jesus as Hero in the end, and His human allies triumphing with him over the realm of evil.

2. God is a truly kind, forgiving and understanding God, but his ways are not our ways. When we judge God by our standards of fairness, it's not only wrong but ludicrous. God does not send people to hell. Hell is made for the devil and his angels. People decide to ally themselves with the devil when they reject God, thus pretty much walking into hell of their own accord. It's who you know.....
By the way, questions do not send you to hell. God actually likes it when we wrestle with Him.

3. I do not find this concept in the Bible: "you need to be able to understand what is good or evil before being labeled a "Sinner."" Sin is missing the target in terms of pleasing God. It is entirely possible, nay, probable that we will miss the target when we are not even aware that it's there.

4. We do not get to judge the goodness of God. When something does not add up to what we understand to be the character of God, the limits of our understanding are showing - not the limits of God's goodness.

5. The realm of darkness is not a force for God to reckon with - it's something that He allows to exist because it's part of His plan somehow. I don't understand it, but I don't have to.

6. Well, the Hebrew word for "kill" in the ten commandments is actually closer to the English word "murder"..... but as for the bearing false witness, I personally don't see there being a grey area.

7. I don't know - whatever God decides to write - it's not really my job to concur or to debate it.

8. There are times when you will see paradoxes among Christians and in their behavior. Sometimes it will be because we take after our Father, who is spirit - we are children of the Wind..... Other times it will be because we are still under construction, as they say.

9. Do you realize that when you say that 1+1=2, you are leaving out many other numbers that could go after the equal sign?

10. whether I feel dehumanized or not is not the point, I'd say.

11. God is the Creator, we are the creation. God is the source, not a result of anything.

12. I don't understand how that follows. God is the Creator, the Universe is the creation - 'nuff said.

13. I. Don't. Know.

14. It's not about statistics....

15. Do you really think that the Lord and creator of the universe needs to make some policy-changes because you or I might say so?

bless you
tal

PS - I don't offend easily.

Nuka · May 2, 2010

Van said:
11) Christians start with the concept that in the beginning only God existed, and He existed eternally, without a beginning so He was not created. I think it is very difficult to explain the existence of our universe without relying on something uncreated, something that always was.

You have no problem with believing that god always existed but you do have a problem with the theory that the universe always existed in the exact same way that god has always existed in your belief?

How does that work?

ebia · May 2, 2010

Since each of those questions needs a lot of misconceptions unpacking and a lot of background explanation etc, how about one question at a time instead of the "throw a lot of mud and see if one bit sticks" approach?

talitha · May 2, 2010

Nuka said:
You have no problem with believing that god always existed but you do have a problem with the theory that the universe always existed in the exact same way that god has always existed in your belief?

How does that work?

one way it works is with the second law of thermodynamics - entropy - the universe tends toward disorder and decay. God is aphysical and never changes; the universe is tangible and is deteriorating.

drich0150 · May 2, 2010

1. Why did God punish Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit?

Adam sinned, That sin caused an separation between himself and God that "punishment" came from Adam and not God. If you continue to read Genesis you will see God still loved Adam and interacted with Him but only in a diminished capacity. He still blessed Adam with a very long and fruitful life.

why was god 'surprised' (So to say) when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit?

God wasn't surprised. He simply established a standard. Basically He gave Adam and Eve a choice as to whether they wish to continue to be in the direct presents of God or if they wished to be separated from God's direct presents.

100% chance of them eventually eating the fruit because they had no idea that eating the fruit was the wrong thing to do UNTIL they actually ate it?

Gen 3:
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

These words are from Eve Herself. So she knew not to eat of the forbidden fruit prior to actually eating it.

Even if this were all intentional, or if God knew it would happen, being omnipotent and everything, why did he not create Adam and Eve with the knowledge of the forbidden fruit in the first place, let alone punish them even when they explained that the devil tricked them into eating the forbidden fruit?

God didn't want to create a captive races of sentient monkeys in a confined garden, no matter how big and/or nice. So He gave us a choice to either be with Him or to avoid Him. The choice Adam and Eve made still echo's in our latest generation. Because we all have the same choice to make.

2. Is God a truly kind, forgiving and understanding God? Because from what I can deduct he is not, because apparently from what the Bible teaches, simply not believing in him is something worth spending an eternity in a lake of fire and brimstone where you shall forever choke and scream and suffer and cry and weep and burn until the end of time as we know it...But apparently, he loves us.
I cannot accept god doing/being both at the same time, either he truly loves and cares about mankind or he is willing to send us to a plane of never ending torture for simply questioning what a 5,000-or-so-year old archaic book teaches.

The book you are misquoting more or less says that we have been given this life as a personal testament (to prove to ourselves) as to where we want to spend eternity.

Either in the presents of God and all that he has created, or eternally separated from God, and all of creation. If you wish to spend eternity with God then all you have to do is except the Love shown to you through the blood sacrifice of Jesus. If you wish to be away from God then just continue to live your life putting distance between yourself and the God that Loves you...

You claim God is unkind because He allows people the ability to choose to be away from Him. But I would ask How "unkind" would it be if God dragged someone such as yourself who has spent an entire life time putting distance between himself and God into Heaven kicking and screaming? What good does the gift of "freewill" do if you choose and your choice is not respected?

3. Why is it taught that we are born with sin, as babies we are evil and depraved? Does this not mock the fact that you need to be able to understand what is good or evil before being labeled a "Sinner"?

Sin is anything not in the expressed will of God.

Evil is malicious intent to commit sin.

Not all sin is evil but all evil is sin.

We are taught that we have been born into sin. Not that all babies are evil. Which means we have the ability to choose something not in the expressed will of God. Over a life time these collective "choices" (without redemption) spell out our hearts desire as to where we wish to spend eternity.

4. Kind of reminiscent to question 2, why would god create life,

My answer will be reminiscent of question 2:
We were Created, because it was God's good will to do so. And Again He does not send us to Hell. We choose Hell, He merely facilitates the choice we make.

5. "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

No

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

If we could not be evil then we indeed would not have freewill. If we had no freewill then God would truly be malevolent, because that means those in hell were created to simply exist for a while and then be assigned to an eternity in Hell.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Out of the heart's desires of man.

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

It seems Epicurus, did not know God nor did he want to. According to his chain of logic he worshiped the power contained within his own line of reasoning. From this small example I would guess that he now has an eternity to worship anything but God.

6. Can the 10 commandments be defied without being a sin, at all? Thou shalt not kill - what if you kill someone in an act of genuine self defense? Thou shalt not bear false witness - What about if you tell a lie that could save someones life?

The commandment you speak of is "Thou shalt not Murder." There is a great difference between murder and Kill. Also know that Jesus completed the Law of Moses, meaning not only is it not lawful to murder, but it is also breaking the same command if you were to hate someone. The completion of the Law measures the Heart not just your outward actions. So if you even look at a woman lustfully you sin... This was done to prove to everyone there is no one is worthy of heaven under their own merit. We all need the redemption that can only be found through Christ.

7. Furthermore about the 10 commandments, why is it that rape, torture, child abuse, racism, and slavery, among other horrible things, suspiciously don't have a say in the 10 commandments?

Because "good things" and "bad things" are relative to the society you live in. It is easy to live in a western society with a very limited almost sheltered view of right and wrong, and condemn everything on that list of yours. You have to remember the bible wasn't written for Anglo America. It encompasses 5000 years of people, culture, and history.

8. Why do Christians pick verses from the Bible to support their claims and beliefs but denying the few/many that don't? If for instance the Old Testament were to be used as a moral guide today, you cannot simply pick the verses or teachings of a few passages and ignore the rest, either you believe everything the New/Old testament says, or you believe nothing they say, there's no "In-between". I'm sorry but this is my pet peeve.

The things written in the OT were written to OT Jews.. Do you contend that all of Christianity be subject to OT Judaism? If so then you should really Read the bible before you condemn those who have read it and follow it's teachings. For within those pages we are told alot of the OT ways are no longer valid. So in a sense It is the "Bible" that picks and chooses what we are to believe for us..

10. Why are do most Christians feel insulted and "Dehumanized" when scientists claim we evolved from lesser life, but have no problem with the Biblical claim that the first humans were forged from dust and dirt?

I don't know that we do..

11. Christians usually point to god as a source of creation, including the creation of the universe, and for some, the creation of the Earth. But then who created god? It's a startling jump from answering everything with "God did it" to "Well we can't explain everything about the Universe as of now and most likely never can"

Creation marked the beginning of time (and the need for a creator) Since God existed before time began, He has no need for a creator. In your question your trying to define God with in the limitations of your current understanding. If you could find an accurate answer to your question with in your limitations, then God would not be God. God is infinite, which means (in this case) God simply does not fit into your understanding of time and creation.

12. (Continuation from above) If you are to say that the existence of a God is an unanswerable question, why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the Universe is an unanswerable question? If you are to say that God has always existed, then why not save a step and conclude that the Universe has always existed? -Carl Sagan

Simply because we are told that the universe was created.

A man who looks to others for "thoughts" of his own in the words of others, can be molded and sculpted anyway the society he lives in dictates.

-Drich0150

13. Do the majority of Christians see the story of Noah's Ark as true? Because of all the stories the bible teaches I see this one as the most illogical and fallible. Let me explain - How could have Noah fit 2 of all 1.8 Million species of plants, animals, birds, insects, fungus, and other things unto a single raft? How could have Noah had the resources (Food, water)

He wouldn't need every signal species for us to have the diversity we have today, and not every plant was represented on the ark. Plus who's to say He got ALL the animals? If you think about it there are quite a few animals that we hear of, that aren't around anymore.. Have you seen any unicorns or dragons lately?

If you take the measurements of the ark and plot them out you come up with 2,773,925 cubic feet of space. I would say even by today's standards Noah's Ark was a little more than a raft.
How did Noah fit all the animals on the Ark?

to keep all of those animals alive for several months and somehow keep all of that food and water on the same raft he is carrying these millions of species on? And furthermore, how could have Noah have managed to travel all around the world, unto every single continent, island, and archipelago, (INCLUDING Antarctica, Australia, North and South America, etc.), and manually have picked up 2 of every single species there, and after that, redistribute each and every species to the exact location and environment it had lived in prior to the great flood, all within possibly a few days time? I just. Doesn't. Make. Sense.

Genesis tells us God brought the animals to Him. He didn't go anywhere. All the animals and provisions were completely loaded before the first rain drop hit the ground.

14. Why do you describe a 1% success rate for prayers a "High percentage" and proof as to prayer actually works, but dismiss the other 99% failed prayers as "God's will"?

Why would you post a question that has an unverifiable percentage rate, and then demand an answer?

15. Last, but certainly not least...
Let me put this into perspective for you - Try to imagine every single planet in this Universe that harbors intelligent life, try to imagine every single intelligent being that has, will, and always will live in this plane of existence, try to imagine every single civilization on every single planet on every single solar system on every single galaxy that is, has, and will exist in all of time, NOW try to imagine that for each and every intelligent civilization, there can be hundreds, nay, THOUSANDS of religions for each and every one of those civilizations, and you, as Christians, will be the only ones permitted into heaven while the uncountable trillions among trillions of other life-forms that don't share your exact beliefs will forever burn in a hell of eternal suffering, and yet you consider your religion to be the most "Tolerant" and "Loving"?

I guess question 14 was to pave the way for question 15, in that you assume because you have an understanding of something that whatever it is you think you understand it is the only correct way of viewing the given situation... Do you see the irony here?

To answer your question: If we believe the God of Heaven created the entire universe, and all that maybe in it, then wouldn't it stand to reason the that same God also provided for his other creations as He has provided for us? So that begs the question How do you know for sure that the "trillions upon trillions of other life forms." Don't share in our collective beliefs?

Emmy · May 2, 2010

Dear Nuka. God made us in His image, and He made us GOOD. God knew that we are good, but when faced with TEMPTATION, goodness alone is not enough. God had warned Adam and Eve, " if you eat of the Tree of Knowledge, you will die." Adam and Eve could not resist the crafty temptings of the Serpent, they disobeyed God`s loving advice, and by eating the fruit, they knew the difference between Good and NOT Good. They were banished to Earth, where soon temptations of all sorts would surround them, and all who came after. Men and women became selfish and wilful, and moved farther and farther from God. In time Jesus came, and showed us God as He really is, a loving Heavenly Father, who wants us back again. After Jesus had paid the debt to God`s Holy Law, which none of us could pay, we were all steeped to deeply in sin and transgressions, we were reconciled to God. Jesus died that we might live, Jesus became our Saviour and we were free to return to God, our Father in Heaven. BUT we had to do our part, Jesus kept telling us to " Repent" to excgange our selfish and unloving/uncaring character, for 1) loving God with all our hearts, all our souls, and all our minds. 2) To love our neighbour, all others, friend or foe, AS WE love ourselves. To love God is easy enough, He loves us, and He is waiting to forgive us, to become His loving sons and daughters again. BUT this time we have learned to love as God wants us to love, God above all else, and knowing for sure, God`s Blessings make all the difference. He could have given up on us, but His Love for us began the wonderful Plan of Redemption for all men and women who want to live with Him, and each other, for Eternity. Jesus helps us and leads us back to God, and God will forgive us every time we stumble, or fall, and ask God for forgiveness, and we forgive others, as God has forgiven us. AND we have years to learn to love as God wants to love, selflessly and without any strings attached. I say this humbly and with love, Nuka. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

Nuka · May 2, 2010

Well, thanks everyone for answering my questions - although it was kind of what I had expected (Various different answers from various different people), I got what I asked for.
Thanks, everybody.

Jpark · May 2, 2010

Never mind.

Van · May 2, 2010

Hi Nuka, I do not believe the Universe always existed because I accept the theory of the Big Bang. Lots of folks initially tried to support the competing theory of the Universe always in existence, but upon study, the "Universe started with Big Bang" theory prevails today.

May God Bless

Nuka · May 2, 2010

Van said:
Hi Nuka, I do not believe the Universe always existed because I accept the theory of the Big Bang. Lots of folks initially tried to support the competing theory of the Universe always in existence, but upon study, the "Universe started with Big Bang" theory prevails today.

May God Bless

The Big Bang theory is the theory that all of the matter in the universe came from the Big Bang, not the universe itself, that being said, the theory does not mention the space-time continuum to have ever been created by the Big Bang, just all of the matter within it.

Bible2 · May 3, 2010

Why did God punish Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit?

God punished Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit because he had commanded them not to (Genesis 2:17).

Adam and Eve prior to eating the fruit had no concept of pain, evil, what is good and what is right, death, or pretty much anything, why was god 'surprised' (So to say) when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit?

God wasn't surprised when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit.

Did he not know that there was a virtually 100% chance of them eventually eating the fruit because they had no idea that eating the fruit was the wrong thing to do UNTIL they actually ate it?

God did know that there was virtually a 100% chance of them eventually eating the fruit, but not because they had no idea that eating the fruit was the wrong thing to do until they actually ate it, because they did know it was the wrong thing to do before they actually ate it, because God had commanded them not to eat it (Genesis 2:17).

Plus, if he didn't want them to eat it, why did he let them, or why did he even let the Devil, who convinced them both to eat the apple, into the Garden of Eden in the first place?

God let them eat it because he allows humans free will. God could have originally assigned an as-yet-unfallen Lucifer to watch over Adam and Eve in a good sense, to be a "covering cherub" over Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-15). Lucifer could have then fallen into rebellion against God (Isaiah 14:12) and so become Satan (cf. Luke 10:18), and as his first rebellious act deceived Eve into disobeying God (Genesis 3).

Even if this were all intentional, or if God knew it would happen, being omnipotent and everything, why did he not create Adam and Eve with the knowledge of the forbidden fruit in the first place, let alone punish them even when they explained that the devil tricked them into eating the forbidden fruit?

God creates things to evolve: babies don't start out with full intelligence. Also, only Eve was deceived by Lucifer; Adam was not deceived (1 Timothy 2:14). But even if people sin because they are deceived by the devil, they are still responsible for their disobedience to God, because the devil cannot make anyone sin: human sin arises only from human free will (James 1:13-15).

Is God a truly kind, forgiving and understanding God?

Yes, God is a truly kind, forgiving and understanding God (Romans 5:8).

Because from what I can deduct he is not, because apparently from what the Bible teaches, simply not believing in him is something worth spending an eternity in a lake of fire and brimstone where you shall forever choke and scream and suffer and cry and weep and burn until the end of time as we know it...But apparently, he loves us.

God doesn't love everyone; he hates the unelect (Romans 9:11-20), who he created to be vessels of his wrath (Romans 9:21-22).

I cannot accept god doing/being both at the same time, either he truly loves and cares about mankind or he is willing to send us to a plane of never ending torture for simply questioning what a 5,000-or-so-year old archaic book teaches.

It doesn't matter what humans can accept (Romans 9:20). God created both human vessels of his wrath and human vessels of his mercy (Romans 9:21-24). Unsaved people will be sent to hell not for questioning, but for committing unrepentant sin (Romans 2:4-9).

Why is it taught that we are born with sin, as babies we are evil and depraved?

God's word teaches that we are born with sin, that even as babies we are evil and depraved (Psalms 58:3).

Does this not mock the fact that you need to be able to understand what is good or evil before being labeled a "Sinner"?

No. All humans were in "the loins" of Adam (cf. Hebrews 7:9-10), an integral part of Adam, when he sinned, so everyone committed sin when Adam sinned (Romans 5:19).

Kind of reminiscent to question 2, why would god create life, human life that is, only to send the majority of anyone and everyone who ever lived to Hell for not believing in him?

God created the unelect to be vessels of his wrath instead of vessels of his mercy (Romans 9:21-22), so that he could have the opportunity to eternally show his wrath and make his power known (Romans 9:22, Revelation 14:10-11) against unrepentant sinfulness (Romans 2:5-8, Hebrews 10:26-29), just as God created the elect to be vessels of his mercy (Romans 9:23), so that he could have the opportunity to eternally make known the riches of his glory (Romans 9:23) and his wisdom (Ephesians 3:10, Ephesians 1:8,11).

Is god really that evil as to create billions upon billions of sentient beings only to send them all to hell?

No, God is not evil at all (1 John 1:5). We must be careful not to condemn the way that God himself has chosen to reveal all that he is (Romans 9:20-23) and say that it is "evil" for God not to save everyone and to send the unsaved into eternal torment. For by saying this we would be making humans more important than God and his wishes. And this is something which Satan causes people to do, just as Jesus "said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men" (Matthew 16:23). No matter how it may irk the Satanic pride of us humans, wanting to be important like God (Isaiah 14:12-15), so important that God would never even think of not saving all of us and casting some of us into hell for all eternity (Isaiah 14:15, Revelation 20:10,15), we must always remember that it is God's right to do whatever he wants with his creatures (Romans 9:21-23). We must always remember that even all of humanity together is infinitesimal and worth less than nothing compared with God (Isaiah 40:17-18). We must resist our Satanic, human pride (which we can unsconsciously disguise with good-sounding words about God's love for us) and completely humble ourselves before God (James 4:7-10, 1 Peter 5:6-8), pleading that he might have mercy upon us sinners (Luke 18:13-14).

The devil would love nothing more than to get us humans in our sinful pride to wrongly reject the God of the Bible (YHWH) as "evil", so that we will end up in the lake of fire forever with the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:43-44). The coming Antichrist, who will be empowered by the devil (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Revelation 13:4), will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), and no doubt one of his chief blasphemies against YHWH will be that YHWH is an evil god. (This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ is not come in the flesh: 1 John 4:3.) During the coming world-reign of the Antichrist the whole world will be deceived into rejecting YHWH and worshipping Lucifer (the dragon, the devil) and the Antichrist (the beast) instead (Revelation 13:4-18).

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

No. God is both willing and able to completely defeat all evil (Revelation 20:10,15).

Then he is not omnipotent.

God is omnipotent (Jeremiah 32:17).

Is he able, but not willing?

No.

Then he is malevolent.

God is not malevolent in the sense of being evil (1 John 1:5).

Is he both able and willing?

Yes.

Then whence cometh evil?

Evil comes from free will, which God permits because he doesn't want robots, but real people.

Is he neither able nor willing?

No, God is both able and willing to completely defeat all evil (Revelation 20:10,15).

Then why call him God?

God is called God because he is the Creator and sustainer of everything that exists (Revelation 4:11, Colossians 1:17).

Bible2 · May 3, 2010

Can the 10 commandments be defied without being a sin, at all?

Christians keep the spirit (Romans 7:6) of every commandment by loving others (Romans 13:8-10). Because Christians are under the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), they are not to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (2 Corinthians 3:6, Romans 7:6), not even the letter of its ten commandments written and engraven in stones, for it was the ministration of death and condemnation which has been done away/abolished (2 Corinthians 3:6-18) and replaced by the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) ministration of the Spirit and life and righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6-18).

Thou shalt not kill - what if you kill someone in an act of genuine self defense?

Christians are not permitted to employ any self-defense when attacked (Matthew 5:39, Matthew 26:52).

Thou shalt not bear false witness - What about if you tell a lie that could save someones life?

Bearing false witness means lying about someone else to their harm (e.g. 1 Kings 21:13). Rahab was not condemned for saying something untrue which was not to anyone's harm, and which saved the lives to two men (Joshua 2:3-24, James 2:25).

Furthermore about the 10 commandments, why is it that rape, torture, child abuse, racism, and slavery, among other horrible things, suspiciously don't have a say in the 10 commandments?

Rape was forbidden elsewhere (e.g. Deuteronomy 22:25). Torture, child abuse, and racism were all forbidden by the spirit of the Old Testament law and the prophets, which is summed up by Jesus' New Testament commandment to do unto others as we would have them do unto us (Matthew 7:12). Slavery does not have to be horrible in itself: slaves in ancient times could have it better than "wage slaves" and the starving poor in third world countries do today. The Bible commands kind treatment of slaves (Colossians 4:1), and not only permits but commands slaves to obtain freedom if they are able to (1 Corinthians 7:21).

Why do Christians pick verses from the Bible to support their claims and beliefs but denying the few/many that don't? If for instance the Old Testament were to be used as a moral guide today, you cannot simply pick the verses or teachings of a few passages and ignore the rest, either you believe everything the New/Old testament says, or you believe nothing they say, there's no "In-between".

Jesus abolished the letter of the Old Covenant commandments on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15, Hebrews 7:18-19, Colossians 2:14) and established the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, John 1:17). Christians are delivered from the letter of the entire Old Covenant law and are not to keep the letter of any part of it (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6-18). Christians keep the spirit of the entire Old Covenant law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing unto others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

Jesus taught that Christians have to obey his New Covenant (New Testament) commandments, such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19-7:29) and in the writings of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37, 1 Thessalonians 4:2). These New Covenant commandments far exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant commandments (Matthew 5:20-48). So there is no reason why any Christian should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant commandments, instead of walking solely in the Spirit (Galatians 3:2-5:26).

Pharisaical thinking can deceive Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant law in order to be saved (Acts 15:1, Galatians 5:4). But this a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9), for if any Christians are keeping the letter of any part of the Old Covenant law, thinking that they must do so in order to be saved, then they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

Christians can thank God that the abolished letter of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law was just a temporary "schoomaster" covenant (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary "shadow" covenant (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant and long before he brought that promise to fulfillment in the New Covenant of Christ (Galatians 3:16-29). No Christian should in any way desire to go back into bondage under the letter of any part of the Old Covenant law (Galatians 4:21-25). All Christians should desire to keep themselves wholly in the liberty and freedom of the Spirit of the New Covenant of Christ (Galatians 5:1, 2 Corinthians 3:6-18).

Do most Christians realize that they dismiss tens of thousands of other of religions as fake, and yet Atheists/Agnostics simply dismiss just 1 more than that?

Yes. But that "1 more" religion (Christianity) is still the only true religion (John 14:6).

Why are do most Christians feel insulted and "Dehumanized" when scientists claim we evolved from lesser life, but have no problem with the Biblical claim that the first humans were forged from dust and dirt?

Do most Christians feel insulted and dehumanized when scientists claim we evolved from lesser life? Don't all humans evolve from lesser life in the wombs of their mothers? There is no problem with evolution: God could have created it as a natural way to help life adapt and diversify. Where the problem comes in is saying that evolution is the only source of new species, for the instantaneous, miraculous creation of species (or new individual members of a species) by God (such as of Adam from the dust of the ground, Genesis 2:7) can co-exist with a gradual, natural evolutionary process also created by God.

Christians usually point to god as a source of creation, including the creation of the universe, and for some, the creation of the Earth. But then who created god?

God is uncreated: he is existence itself (Exodus 3:14, Colossians 1:17).

It's a startling jump from answering everything with "God did it" to "Well we can't explain everything about the Universe as of now and most likely never can"

Because we can see the existence of the universe, there is no excuse for anyone not believing in God (Romans 1:20).

If you are to say that the existence of a God is an unanswerable question, why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the Universe is an unanswerable question?

The existence of God is not an unanswerable question. The origin of the universe is not an unanswerable question.

If you are to say that God has always existed, then why not save a step and conclude that the Universe has always existed?

The universe cannot have always existed, because of entropy.

Do the majority of Christians see the story of Noah's Ark as true?

It doesn't matter what the majority of Christians see as true. What matters is what God's word says (2 Timothy 4:2-4).

How could have Noah fit 2 of all 1.8 Million species of plants, animals, birds, insects, fungus, and other things unto a single raft?

Noah collected onto the ark only land animals and birds (Genesis 7:8). Plant, insect, and fungus species survived the flood on their own as seeds, eggs, and spores.

How could have Noah had the resources (Food, water) to keep all of those animals alive for several months and somehow keep all of that food and water on the same raft he is carrying these millions of species on?

Noah's ark was huge (Genesis 6:15), not simply some "raft".

And furthermore, how could have Noah have managed to travel all around the world, unto every single continent, island, and archipelago, (INCLUDING Antarctica, Australia, North and South America, etc.), and manually have picked up 2 of every single species there, and after that, redistribute each and every species to the exact location and environment it had lived in prior to the great flood, all within possibly a few days time?

God must have miraculously brought the world's land animals and birds to Noah, and then miraculously redistributed them after the flood.

Why do you describe a 1% success rate for prayers a "High percentage" and proof as to prayer actually works, but dismiss the other 99% failed prayers as "God's will"?

What is the source and proof of these claimed percentages?

Try to imagine every single planet in this Universe that harbors intelligent life, try to imagine every single intelligent being that has, will, and always will live in this plane of existence, try to imagine every single civilization on every single planet on every single solar system on every single galaxy that is, has, and will exist in all of time, NOW try to imagine that for each and every intelligent civilization, there can be hundreds, nay, THOUSANDS of religions for each and every one of those civilizations, and you, as Christians, will be the only ones permitted into heaven while the uncountable trillions among trillions of other life-forms that don't share your exact beliefs will forever burn in a hell of eternal suffering, and yet you consider your religion to be the most "Tolerant" and "Loving"?

Just as God has revealed his true religion to this planet, so he could reveal it to all the other inhabited planets in the universe. And as the Creator of all life-forms he has the right to do with all of them whatever he wants (Romans 9:21-23).

talitha · May 3, 2010

Ugh, I should've known I was wasting my time...... no dialogue here......

Joveia · May 3, 2010

Nuka said:
2. Is God a truly kind, forgiving and understanding God? Because from what I can deduct he is not, because apparently from what the Bible teaches, simply not believing in him is something worth spending an eternity in a lake of fire and brimstone where you shall forever choke and scream and suffer and cry and weep and burn until the end of time as we know it...But apparently, he loves us.
I cannot accept god doing/being both at the same time, either he truly loves and cares about mankind or he is willing to send us to a plane of never ending torture for simply questioning what a 5,000-or-so-year old archaic book teaches.

Hell is not being with God forever - the Bible uses dreadful imagery to describe it.

People will go wherever they want to go. Do you want to spend an eternity with God in heaven? Then you will go to heaven. Do you not? You will not. It's up to you. Heaven will involve being in a wonderful relationship with God where we love Him with every fibre of our being, and love our neighbours as ourselves; hell will involve doing your own thing for an eternity, which cannot give true fulfillment.

4. Kind of reminiscent to question 2, why would god create life, human life that is, only to send the majority of anyone and everyone who ever lived to Hell for not believing in him? Is god really that evil as to create billions upon billions of sentient beings only to send them all to hell?

I don't agree with those statistics. Everyone who dies before the age of accountability (babies, kids) go to heaven. That's about 50% of all humans before modern times. People with mental disabilities go to heaven. People who never hear about Jesus might have a shot at it because they never rejected Him directly. Plus there are possibly trillions of angels who never 'Fell' like Adam and Eve.

7. Furthermore about the 10 commandments, why is it that rape, torture, child abuse, racism, and slavery, among other horrible things, suspiciously don't have a say in the 10 commandments?

I put it to you that if people followed the first commandment properly then none of these things would be a problem. If we serve a God (first commandment) who commands us to love our neighbour as ourselves (Lev 19:18), then we cannot do such things.

8. Why do Christians pick verses from the Bible to support their claims and beliefs but denying the few/many that don't? If for instance the Old Testament were to be used as a moral guide today, you cannot simply pick the verses or teachings of a few passages and ignore the rest, either you believe everything the New/Old testament says, or you believe nothing they say, there's no "In-between". I'm sorry but this is my pet peeve.

Matthew 19:7-8: "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

In Matthew 19:7-8 Jesus says that God took into account human failings when He gave His laws to the Israelites in the Old Testament. Jesus' teachings do not involve a compromise, so they are what we should follow.

10. Why are do most Christians feel insulted and "Dehumanized" when scientists claim we evolved from lesser life, but have no problem with the Biblical claim that the first humans were forged from dust and dirt?

I believe that we evolved as part of God's plan, but the idea that our minds evolved and are determined by evolutionary processes has quite creepy implications that a lot of people find uncomfortable. Have you read much on evolutionary psychology? Science has a much more pessimistic view of human nature, nowadays, than the doctrine of original sin and the Fall, if evo psych is anything to go by.

11. Christians usually point to god as a source of creation, including the creation of the universe, and for some, the creation of the Earth. But then who created god? It's a startling jump from answering everything with "God did it" to "Well we can't explain everything about the Universe as of now and most likely never can"

12. (Continuation from above) If you are to say that the existence of a God is an unanswerable question, why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the Universe is an unanswerable question? If you are to say that God has always existed, then why not save a step and conclude that the Universe has always existed? -Carl Sagan

One difference is that the universe is finite and any God would be infinite. Another is that the universe is inanimate at its foundations whereas a God is 'mental' at Its foundations. So you could use those two differences to try and get out of this view. E.g. there must be an infinity for there to be the finite, and so God is a more appropriate first cause than a finite universe.

14. Why do you describe a 1% success rate for prayers a "High percentage" and proof as to prayer actually works, but dismiss the other 99% failed prayers as "God's will"?

If you read testimonies of Christians' lives then you will see how God does answer most of their prayers but over a very long period of time (or changes their desires so they are happy with an unanswered prayer), and also makes events fit together to help them mature in Christ. This is God's priority, and He accomplishes it.

drich0150 · May 3, 2010

Nuka said:
Well, thanks everyone for answering my questions - although it was kind of what I had expected (Various different answers from various different people), I got what I asked for.
Thanks, everybody.

The different answers you received all represent the different levels of understanding that we all have. I think that is one of the best things about Christianity. It allows us the ability to worship at different levels of understanding, if that level is all that we are currently able to comprehend.

(This also plays into the reason we have some many different denominations.)

Van · May 3, 2010

Hi Nuka, you believe the "space-time"continuum existed prior to the Big Bang? Gee, I thought the space-time continuum is the Universe, and neither space nor time or combination existed prior to the big bang.

I do not think the "singularity" was floating in three dimensional space for billions and billions and billions of years. I know it is hard to conceive of something infinitely small with nothing including space-time outside it, but that is my understanding of the theory.

And something caused this nothingness to expand into our universe of space-time. A transcendent cause, God or non-god we do not know, but possibly God.

May God Bless

A question for "deep thinkers" - What is the difference between something infinitely small and nothing at all.

lucaspa · May 3, 2010

Nuka said:
Unto the questions.
(Please note that some of the questions were inspired, and some others directly taken from someone else)

It looks like all of them were taken from somewhere else, probably www.infidels.org. Why didn't you give us the source?

It would have been better to stick with one or 2 of them at a time. I will answer just a few. I will also note that many of them are based upon Biblical literalism. That is going to give you a problem every time. Christianity does not look at the entire Bible as literal.

1. Why did God punish Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit?

Genesis 2-3 is an allegory about "Dirt" and "Hearth". Like all allegories the characters are are characteristics of groups. In this case the group is humans. Dirt is told not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Dirt disobeys. He knew it was "wrong" because God told him not to do it. The act of disobedience cuts Dirt and Hearth off from God.

Now, since Dirt and Hearth represent each of us, it means that each of us will, sometime, disobey God. The implication is that we are not born with sin, but that we will eventually (probably very soon) disobey God.

2. Is God a truly kind, forgiving and understanding God? Because from what I can deduct he is not, because apparently from what the Bible teaches, simply not believing in him is something worth spending an eternity in a lake of fire and brimstone

And those passages are? Here also is where you confuse God with a book: "he is willing to send us to a plane of never ending torture for simply questioning what a 5,000-or-so-year old archaic book teaches."

BTW, remember that Jesus questioned what scripture taught. See Mark 10 and Matthew 14. What you have done is confuse the claims of some theists as a claim of the religion as a whole. In total, scripture does not say everyone who does not believe in God is going to Hell. Remember the parable of the Good Samaritan. Early Christians, suffering under persecution, certainly hoped their persecutors would be punished someday, but it's not clear they will be.

5. "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

Ah, the Problem of Evil. You have to think what God would have to do to prevent all evil. Hint: it involves a lot of brainwashing. For our lives to have meaning, then our actions must have real consequences. Even our actions that hurt others. Yes, God could have stopped Hitler, but to do so involves getting inside his brain and changing Hitler. Basically it means robbing us of free will and our lives of meaning. God loves us too much to do that, no matter how much it hurts God to see us hurt others.

6. Can the 10 commandments be defied without being a sin, at all? Thou shalt not kill - what if you kill someone in an act of genuine self defense? Thou shalt not bear false witness - What about if you tell a lie that could save someones life?

You have to put the laws into the context and language of the time. "kill" is actually "murder". Thou shalt not murder. "False witness" refers to giving evidence in court, not just lying. To give false witness means telling a lie that gets an innocent person convicted.

8. Why do Christians pick verses from the Bible to support their claims and beliefs but denying the few/many that don't?

Why do you do the same thing?

either you believe everything the New/Old testament says, or you believe nothing they say, there's no "In-between". I'm sorry but this is my pet peeve.

Ah, you sound like a Biblical inerrantist here. Of course there is an "in-between". You have a criteria: either you believe everything or nothing. OK, let's apply that to Darwin's Origin of Species. Do you believe everything in it. If you do, then you believe some things that are wrong. If you don't, should you believe nothing from it? If you do that, you miss a lot of what is correct.

We take claims one at a time. I like your strawman, because it lets you falsely attack Christianity (and exposes that your claim "I'm an agnostic" is false witness), but it is not the way we do things.

9. Do most Christians realize that they dismiss tens of thousands of other of religions as fake, and yet Atheists/Agnostics simply dismiss just 1 more than that?

Agnostics don't dismiss any religion. I think you need to look up what "agnositicism" is. Yes, theists and atheists share the same beliefs about a number of religions. We both believe that the Greek pantheon does not exist, that Thor does not exist, etc. But theists have evidence that atheists dismiss.

10. Why are do most Christians feel insulted and "Dehumanized" when scientists claim we evolved from lesser life, but have no problem with the Biblical claim that the first humans were forged from dust and dirt?

Most Christians have no problem with evolution. Those that do feel that evolution is either 1) atheism or 2) demotes humans from being special. So what if God created Dirt from dirt, as long as God did it directly. To remove direct creation by God makes some people feel that they are not special.

11. Christians usually point to god as a source of creation, including the creation of the universe, and for some, the creation of the Earth. But then who created god? It's a startling jump from answering everything with "God did it" to "Well we can't explain everything about the Universe as of now and most likely never can"

This is just bad science and logic. Every time you answer a question, 2 or 3 new questions pop up out of the answer. Not knowing the answer to those new questions does not negate the answer you have. If it did, all science collapses. So, what is the origin of the universe? Christians believe God created the universe. So now a new question pops up: what is the origin of God? We don't know. Perhaps God was always there. (BTW, note that this is the same type of position taken by ekpyrotic theory. Instead of God always existing, ekpyrotic has a 5 D 'brane always existing.)

12. (Continuation from above) If you are to say that the existence of a God is an unanswerable question, why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the Universe is an unanswerable question?why not save a step and conclude that the Universe has always existed?

Because people have evidence for the existence of God. Also, we have strong evidence that the universe cannot have "always existed". We have evidence against that. You would take a step that the evidence says is untrue?

13. Do the majority of Christians see the story of Noah's Ark as true?

No. Fundamentalists/creationists say that. But there are very good reasons (which I can go into) to conclude that Fundamentalism/creationism is not Christian. And yes, biogeography is one of the ways that Christians falsified the Biblical story of the Flood in the period 1800-1830. The result? See the first quote in my signature.

14. Why do you describe a 1% success rate for prayers a "High percentage" and proof as to prayer actually works, but dismiss the other 99% failed prayers as "God's will"?

Maybe because 99% ask for something very selfish and trivial. Why do you dismiss the scientific studies showing an effect of intercessory prayer?

15. Last, but certainly not least...that don't share your exact beliefs [/quote]

This is based on a strawman of the claim that God won't let anyone but Christians into heaven. The parable of the Good Samaritan expressly addresses this type of belief. That belief was held by the Jews of the time. Jesus says that belief is wrong. Non-Christians (and even atheists) can be good people who deserve consideration and, perhaps, salvation. "Judgement is mine, says the Lord". People who say this person or that group will not be saved are presuming to speak for God. That may provide some ego lift to the person making the claim, but it does not mean God is going to go along with it.

Your peeve seems to be against intolerant Christians, not against Christianity. You need to learn to separate the idea from all the advocates of the idea. Remember, there are some Social Darwinists out there who would pronounce everyone that does not have certain traits to be "undesirable" and should be prevented from having kids. Does that make evolution untrue?

You need to be more critical and skeptical of your own questions. Think about your atheism. Also, think about whether your claims about Christianity are correct. We shouldn't have to run around correcting your misunderstandings. You should take some responsibility to learn.

brinny · May 3, 2010

Nuka said:
Hello, I am a life-long Agnostic, I never grew up with any religion, despite my entire family tree being devout Eastern Orthodox Christians, but skipping my life story, I just want to ask the Christians on this forum several questions about Christianity that have always puzzled me for years and years.

Now, I want to say this beforehand, I MAY say something that can possibly offend you if you're a devout Christian. Just saying.

Unto the questions.
(Please note that some of the questions were inspired, and some others directly taken from someone else)

1. Why did God punish Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit? Adam and Eve prior to eating the fruit had no concept of pain, evil, what is good and what is right, death, or pretty much anything, why was god 'surprised' (So to say) when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit? Did he not know that there was a virtually 100% chance of them eventually eating the fruit because they had no idea that eating the fruit was the wrong thing to do UNTIL they actually ate it? Plus, if he didn't want them to eat it, why did he let them, or why did he even let the Devil, who convinced them both to eat the apple, into the Garden of Eden in the first place?
Even if this were all intentional, or if God knew it would happen, being omnipotent and everything, why did he not create Adam and Eve with the knowledge of the forbidden fruit in the first place, let alone punish them even when they explained that the devil tricked them into eating the forbidden fruit?

2. Is God a truly kind, forgiving and understanding God? Because from what I can deduct he is not, because apparently from what the Bible teaches, simply not believing in him is something worth spending an eternity in a lake of fire and brimstone where you shall forever choke and scream and suffer and cry and weep and burn until the end of time as we know it...But apparently, he loves us.
I cannot accept god doing/being both at the same time, either he truly loves and cares about mankind or he is willing to send us to a plane of never ending torture for simply questioning what a 5,000-or-so-year old archaic book teaches.

3. Why is it taught that we are born with sin, as babies we are evil and depraved? Does this not mock the fact that you need to be able to understand what is good or evil before being labeled a "Sinner"?

4. Kind of reminiscent to question 2, why would god create life, human life that is, only to send the majority of anyone and everyone who ever lived to Hell for not believing in him? Is god really that evil as to create billions upon billions of sentient beings only to send them all to hell?

5. "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

6. Can the 10 commandments be defied without being a sin, at all? Thou shalt not kill - what if you kill someone in an act of genuine self defense? Thou shalt not bear false witness - What about if you tell a lie that could save someones life?

7. Furthermore about the 10 commandments, why is it that rape, torture, child abuse, racism, and slavery, among other horrible things, suspiciously don't have a say in the 10 commandments?

8. Why do Christians pick verses from the Bible to support their claims and beliefs but denying the few/many that don't? If for instance the Old Testament were to be used as a moral guide today, you cannot simply pick the verses or teachings of a few passages and ignore the rest, either you believe everything the New/Old testament says, or you believe nothing they say, there's no "In-between". I'm sorry but this is my pet peeve.

9. Do most Christians realize that they dismiss tens of thousands of other of religions as fake, and yet Atheists/Agnostics simply dismiss just 1 more than that?

10. Why are do most Christians feel insulted and "Dehumanized" when scientists claim we evolved from lesser life, but have no problem with the Biblical claim that the first humans were forged from dust and dirt?

11. Christians usually point to god as a source of creation, including the creation of the universe, and for some, the creation of the Earth. But then who created god? It's a startling jump from answering everything with "God did it" to "Well we can't explain everything about the Universe as of now and most likely never can"

12. (Continuation from above) If you are to say that the existence of a God is an unanswerable question, why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the Universe is an unanswerable question? If you are to say that God has always existed, then why not save a step and conclude that the Universe has always existed? -Carl Sagan

13. Do the majority of Christians see the story of Noah's Ark as true? Because of all the stories the bible teaches I see this one as the most illogical and fallible. Let me explain - How could have Noah fit 2 of all 1.8 Million species of plants, animals, birds, insects, fungus, and other things unto a single raft? How could have Noah had the resources (Food, water)
to keep all of those animals alive for several months and somehow keep all of that food and water on the same raft he is carrying these millions of species on? And furthermore, how could have Noah have managed to travel all around the world, unto every single continent, island, and archipelago, (INCLUDING Antarctica, Australia, North and South America, etc.), and manually have picked up 2 of every single species there, and after that, redistribute each and every species to the exact location and environment it had lived in prior to the great flood, all within possibly a few days time? I just. Doesn't. Make. Sense.

14. Why do you describe a 1% success rate for prayers a "High percentage" and proof as to prayer actually works, but dismiss the other 99% failed prayers as "God's will"?

15. Last, but certainly not least...
Let me put this into perspective for you - Try to imagine every single planet in this Universe that harbors intelligent life, try to imagine every single intelligent being that has, will, and always will live in this plane of existence, try to imagine every single civilization on every single planet on every single solar system on every single galaxy that is, has, and will exist in all of time, NOW try to imagine that for each and every intelligent civilization, there can be hundreds, nay, THOUSANDS of religions for each and every one of those civilizations, and you, as Christians, will be the only ones permitted into heaven while the uncountable trillions among trillions of other life-forms that don't share your exact beliefs will forever burn in a hell of eternal suffering, and yet you consider your religion to be the most "Tolerant" and "Loving"?

That's all for now, I hope some of the people on this forum can answer my questions, and I hope I did not offend anyone too badly with my ranting and raving.

No offense taken. This may answer some of your questions. Watch its entirety, no offense intended:

YouTube - Paul Washer - Shocking Message (full length - HQ)

Please feel free to PM me. I would welcome discussing the Christian faith further.

Just a "few" questions

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