Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's?

ebia

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Thank You for your response.

You've said twice now that Jesus was not talking about taxes... what was he then? (I always assumed this I suppose)
Their question was never about taxes, but about trying to get him either to make a statement of compromise (undermining his message) or a statement of revolution (incriminating himself).

His response then shows them up as the compromisers, shows the scope of the issue, and talks of revolution in coded ways and ways that speak of "not the way you think of revolution" (though less so than when he is addressing questions from would-be revolutionaries).
 
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ebia

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Not necessarily but that may be the case... assuming I was a Christian living in Nazi Germany would it have been wrong for me to resist the Government?

(My personal struggle is trying to resolve the potential for State sponsored abortions with tax dollars)
Unless one lives in a country where particular tax money is ear-marked for particular purposes (which most governments aren't silly enough to do too often) one is not in a position to withhold money for particular tasks.

Which, on the whole, is a good thing. Any state relies on collective decision making about taxation and how that money is spent, and any given citizen will disagree with how some of the money is spent. It's no longer your money being spent on abortion, its collective money. You can and should raise your objections to that money being spent in that way, but you shouldn't withhold the money unless you would be prepared for everyone who disagrees with the things you support to do likewise and damage the funding of those things. That way lies a complete mess.

If your objection is to where money is spent, that's where your campaigning needs to be directed.

If it helps, think of your money as going to projects that you support but some other people would not.
 
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one11

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Matthew, like the rest us, was very different before Christ when compared to after Christ.

Yes, very true.

Okay, after reading it, I believe Jesus is saying we have to pay our taxes peacefully.

Perhaps this is why every countries' currency or coins have portraits of their leaders or royalty on them. That tradition most likely comes from Matt 22:15-22.

However, pay taxes for an evil?

That's complicated, but I do remember the Early American Settler's did throw the tea in the ocean rather than pay the high taxes England wanted for the tea.
 
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one11

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Also, in Matthew 22, I get the feeling Jesus is feeling like "Don't waste my time". That is why Jesus gets angry with the Pharisees. Jesus had more important issues to deal with, healing the sick, curing the lame and the blind, and the Pharisees even saw his miracles and denied Him.

What is going on in Matthew 22 is that the Pharisees had earthly riches, positions and clout, and I think Jesus is trying to say 'all you can think about is your taxes when I gave you everything and you denied me?' Jesus was thinking about his mission.. going out to everyone he could and not dealing with such nonsense when the Pharisees where obviously well cared for, fed, etc.
 
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Godchsr

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Unless one lives in a country where particular tax money is ear-marked for particular purposes (which most governments aren't silly enough to do too often) one is not in a position to withhold money for particular tasks.

Which, on the whole, is a good thing. Any state relies on collective decision making about taxation and how that money is spent, and any given citizen will disagree with how some of the money is spent. It's no longer your money being spent on abortion, its collective money. You can and should raise your objections to that money being spent in that way, but you shouldn't withhold the money unless you would be prepared for everyone who disagrees with the things you support to do likewise and damage the funding of those things. That way lies a complete mess.

If your objection is to where money is spent, that's where your campaigning needs to be directed.

If it helps, think of your money as going to projects that you support but some other people would not.

Thank You!
 
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wayseer

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(Remember this was just an example but...)
Against the war... feeling it's potentially immoral to pay taxes which support it (in a round about way)

Thank you - then I think Ebia has said it better than I might.

We all have to pay taxes - the question put to Jesus was not whether we have to pay taxes but to whom do we owe our allegiance - to those who extract our taxes or to the one who created us.
 
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Godchsr

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So... I'm feeling conflicted then...
My personal sturggle is with the idea of State sponsored abortion.

To ME this is nothing less a Holocaust against unborn babies... most of which are in 'poorer' homes that if born would potentially be 'sponges' on Tax payers.

The Feds are considering funding Abortion clinics with the new Healthcare bill and IF that was the case how could I, in good conscience to what I believe is immoral, support this Holocaust????
 
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david_x

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So... I'm feeling conflicted then...
My personal sturggle is with the idea of State sponsored abortion.

To ME this is nothing less a Holocaust against unborn babies... most of which are in 'poorer' homes that if born would potentially be 'sponges' on Tax payers.

The Feds are considering funding Abortion clinics with the new Healthcare bill and IF that was the case how could I, in good conscience to what I believe is immoral, support this Holocaust????

This assumes that the money is yours, it is not. Giving the government their money to do with what they will does not place guilt on your shoulders. Their money, their decision, their end.

What we can do is fight back against it on their terms (Law), and on our terms (Prayer and Fasting), and on the personal level (Go to the mothers).
 
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Godchsr

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This assumes that the money is yours, it is not. Giving the government their money to do with what they will does not place guilt on your shoulders. Their money, their decision, their end.

What we can do is fight back against it on their terms (Law), and on our terms (Prayer and Fasting), and on the personal level (Go to the mothers).

Don't label me as crazy BUT what if you decide to renounce your 'national' identity and "go to war" against them?
 
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Don't label me as crazy BUT what if you decide to renounce your 'national' identity and "go to war" against them?

I assume in this hypothetical rebellion, you are going to cease to own and use currency from the U.S. and any and all other nations that you may be rebelling against and/or to whose policies you have major moral objections. It seems to me that, unless you are going to be hypocritical about it, renouncing said currency would be a necessary step in renouncing your national identity.

I suspect, however, that if you are completely honest, you will find that there exists no nation on the face of the earth, whose policies are completely in accord with the Gospel. So, I suspect, you will have to work within an economic system that does not rely on any sort of national currency. Perhaps, you can try bartering? But, with whom will you barter? The rest of us all seem to prefer to make our purchases with cash.

Not to mention, the government still retains the moral authority, if not the duty to punish you for tax evasion, treason, and/or any other crimes you may commit in your "war" against the government. This, of course, raises a whole new set of moral issues, but we'll leave that alone for now.

You certainly do have the option of picking up and moving to another country, one whose values are more similar to your own. If that is what you are prepared to do, that is fine. Just realize that, if you want to live in a country that is more restrictive in abortion than the U.S., your options likely include a handful of third-world countries.
 
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ebia

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So... I'm feeling conflicted then...
My personal sturggle is with the idea of State sponsored abortion.

To ME this is nothing less a Holocaust against unborn babies... most of which are in 'poorer' homes that if born would potentially be 'sponges' on Tax payers.

The Feds are considering funding Abortion clinics with the new Healthcare bill and IF that was the case how could I, in good conscience to what I believe is immoral, support this Holocaust????
You are not supporting that particular holocaust simply by paying your taxes. You are supporting it if you cease to speak out against it. You are supporting it if you cease to work to reduce the root causes that lead people to want abortion. You are supporting it if you remove your tax dollars from funding the education and thereby cause more people to get into the situation of asking for an abortion....

Thinking one can absolve one's guilt by withdrawing taxes is simplistic and misguided.
 
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