No Debates Here?

TheBear · Oct 29, 2008

What is wrong with robust and vigorous debates over religious ideas and opinions? Why is it that people can debate politics, music, movies, sports, philosophy, and anything else under the sun, but when it comes to debates over religious ideas and opinions, this board considers it taboo? Is it an insecurity issue?

Also, why do religious people think that their religious opinions, unlike opinions on anything else, are entitled to special and elevated respect?

And finally, what is the purpose of only one non-believer being able to post in a single thread in this 'shiny new' forum? Is it some kind of "isolate and conquer" methodology?

AV1611VET · Oct 29, 2008

TheBear said:
What is wrong with robust and vigorous debates over religious ideas and opinions?

They tend to descend into ad hominems and blasphemy.

TheBear said:
Why is it that people can debate politics, music, movies, sports, philosophy, and anything else under the sun, but when it comes to debates over religious ideas and opinions, this board considers it taboo?

Has it occurred to you that had Admin been doing its job --- very few of us would even be here --- including me? We would have been banned long ago for multiple infractions - (in my opinion - I can't actually speak for Admin).

(And before anyone answers THAT'S HIS POINT, please consider the exceptions made on your behalf as well.)

AV1611VET · Oct 29, 2008

Be careful, little eyes, what you see.
Be careful, little eyes, what you see.
For the Father up above is looking down in love.
Be careful, little eyes, what you see.

Be careful, little ears, what you hear.
Be careful, little ears, what you hear.
For the Father up above is looking down in love.
Be careful, little ears, what you hear.

Be careful, little fingers, what you type.
Be careful, little fingers, what you type.
For the Father up above is looking down in love.
Be careful, little fingers, what you type.

TheBear · Oct 29, 2008

AV, please don't spam this thread. And to others, I do appreciate your support here, but I don't want you getting in trouble over the new "No more than one non-Christian (the OP) may post in a thread" rule.

I'd like to get some feedback from Christians, preferably, Christian staff members.

Thanks.

Lotuspetal_uk · Oct 29, 2008

Hi Bear,

I'll offer my personal thoughts on this..

TheBear said:
What is wrong with robust and vigorous debates over religious ideas and opinions?

Technically nothing so long as it's clear from the onset that one is entering such a discussion like that, i.e. a forum area geared towards that.

Why is it that people can debate politics, music, movies, sports, philosophy, and anything else under the sun, but when it comes to debates over religious ideas and opinions, this board considers it taboo? Is it an insecurity issue?

Not a security issue but just the fact that a person's religious belief is a very personal journey and not something for someone else to just trample over. Not everyone uses the forum for debate, and so a user may inadvertantly answer what they perceive to be a genuine question about their faith and then find that the person asking is just up for a good debate. I guess (though am not sure) the move to just have a "question only area" is the thinking behind this. It's an area where someone who is genuinely searching can feel comfortable to get their questions answered.

Also, why do religious people think that their religious opinions, unlike opinions on anything else, are entitled to special and elevated respect?

Because it is personal to them, it's a life experience. It's held as dear (perhaps more) than one's first kiss, or the sight of your first baby's smile. For some people it's a big leap to share that on somewhere like syberspace. Opinions on anything else can be categorised as not so personal, unless we get onto the topic of cricket or football over here.

But one's faith, well that's something dear to a person and so we have to tread carefully when discussing it. Regrettably I've seen too much of a disrespect exhibited by Christians towards other people's beliefs and really I hope that the forum moves more towards a "treat others as you'd have yourself be treated" in that those believers are taken to task equally.

And finally, what is the purpose of only one non-believer being able to post in a single thread in this 'shiny new' forum? Is it some kind of "isolate and conquer" methodology?

Not at all, but in fairness to get a Christian based answer to a question (since the new forum is for non Christians to explore Christianity with Christians), a line has to be drawn under the volume of non Christian debate which in the past has ensued in such a thread.

I hope that's helped but that was my immediate thoughts on reading your OP.

Regards,
LP

TheBear · Oct 29, 2008

Lotuspetal_uk said:
Hi Bear,

I'll offer my personal thoughts on this..

Technically nothing so long as it's clear from the onset that one is entering such a discussion like that, i.e. a forum area geared towards that.

Not a security issue but just the fact that a person's religious belief is a very personal journey and not something for someone else to just trample over. Not everyone uses the forum for debate, and so a user may inadvertantly answer what they perceive to be a genuine question about their faith and then find that the person asking is just up for a good debate. I guess (though am not sure) the move to just have a "question only area" is the thinking behind this. It's an area where someone who is genuinely searching can feel comfortable to get their questions answered.

Because it is personal to them, it's a life experience. It's held as dear (perhaps more) than one's first kiss, or the sight of your first baby's smile. For some people it's a big leap to share that on somewhere like syberspace. Opinions on anything else can be categorised as not so personal, unless we get onto the topic of cricket or football over here. But one's faith, well that's something dear to a person and so we have to tread carefully when discussing it. Regrettably I've seen too much of a disrespect exhibited by Christians towards other people's beliefs and really I hope that the forum moves more towards a "treat others as you'd have yourself be treated" in that those believers are taken to task equally.

Not at all, but in fairness to get a Christian based answer to a question (since the new forum is for non Christians to explore Christianity with Christians), a line has to be drawn under the volume of non Christian debate which in the past has ensued in such a thread.

I hope that's helped but that was my immediate thoughts on reading your OP.

Regards,
LP

Thank you for your feedback, LP.

Overall I understand what you're saying. To me, however, debate of ideas and concepts is different from intentionally "trampling" someone's feelings. Something like that might happen as the result of debate with some, but it is not the purpose nor intent of debates. (Of course, there are exceptions to that rule, as there are a handful who just want to cause trouble.) Furthermore, there is no consistency in that standard, as some Christians are willing and able to go toe-to-toe in apologetic debates, yet others become emotionally unglued at the mere mention that someone doesn't believe God exists. It boils down to the individual's perception of what's going on, related to their emotional maturity, and applies to any topic of debate. No matter what the topic, there are those who will always make things personal, and react emotionally instead of discussing the topic rationally.

Christian apologetics is a field of Christian theology that aims to present a rational basis for the Christian faith, defend the faith against objections, and expose the perceived flaws of other world views. There is no room for emotionalism in Christian apologetics.

Crazy Liz · Oct 29, 2008

TheBear said:
Christian apologetics is a field of Christian theology that aims to present a rational basis for the Christian faith, defend the faith against objections, and expose the perceived flaws of other world views. There is no room for emotionalism in Christian apologetics.

And, according to the legend at the top of each page, there is no room for Christian apologetics in this forum.

Lotuspetal_uk · Oct 29, 2008

TheBear said:
Thank you for your feedback, LP.

Overall I understand what you're saying. To me, however, debate of ideas and concepts is different from intentionally "trampling" someone's feelings. Something like that might happen as the result of debate with some, but it is not the purpose nor intent of debates. (Of course, there are exceptions to that rule, as there are a handful who just want to cause trouble.) Furthermore, there is no consistency in that standard, as some Christians are willing and able to go toe-to-toe in apologetic debates, yet others become emotionally unglued at the mere mention that someone doesn't believe God exists. It boils down to the individual's perception of what's going on, related to their emotional maturity, and applies to any topic of debate. No matter what the topic, there are those who will always make things personal, and react emotionally instead of discussing the topic rationally.

Christian apologetics is a field of Christian theology that aims to present a rational basis for the Christian faith, defend the faith against objections, and expose the perceived flaws of other world views. There is no room for emotionalism in Christian apologetics.

You're welcome, Bear :wave:

I totally agree with you on the need to have an area to where topics can be openly discussed in the context of exploring ideals/concepts. But, I guess it's that "grey area" of what is deemed personal to one individual and not the other which has seen the need to segment forum areas more.

Not sure if I can discuss this now or not (so may rules so little time to read

) but I was puzzled as to why GA closed. For those specialised in exploring the deep nitty gritty discussions I thought this was the place for it. And as you rightly noted those still on the 'milk' (on both sides) may not have coped well with such an area to where discussions have sometimes deteriorated into mud-slinging.

It's indeed an ambiguous one to resolve in order to keep everyone happy. I do see the need for this forum area, but in the same way there should also be an area where the apologetics can have some good dialogue.

Kindest regards
LP

DerSchweik · Nov 1, 2008

I'm posting this Mod Hat to explain the closure of this thread. I think it's appropriate in this case, given the new-ness of the Exploring Christianity forum.

I would urge everyone who wishes to participate in Exploring Christianity to read the Forum Specific Guidelines for Exploring Christianity, which outlines the purpose of this forum and the rules for posting in it.

------
First, the PURPOSE of this forum:

Exploring Christianity Forum

This is a forum where non-Christians are encouraged to ask questions about those aspects of the Christian faith which seem hard to understand or accept, and where Christians can enter into discussion with them on these questions.

At its heart, this forum is a question and answer forum, the purpose being to give non-Christians a venue for asking questions about Christianity, the Christian faith, etc..

This is a one-question-at-a-time forum, which helps narrow the discussion to a single, specific topic, minimizing the often frequent departures from the point experienced in previous forums which led to more confusion, frustration, and violations than it did to promote understanding.

This is a forum that seeks to give focus and attention to one person's question or issue in the hope that with such undivided focus the OP get a clear answer.

This is a forum for non-Christians. It is a forum to question Christians, and for Christians to give their answers to a specific question posed by the non-Christian.

------
Second, the RULES of the forum.

We recognize that real seekers are looking for real answers, and the first reply given may be insufficient to achieve this. It is acceptable for the Original Poster (OP) to probe the answers given, and to continue the discussion on lines which help to clarify their understanding of the Christian faith. If another non-Christian seeker wishes to ask questions about the Christian faith, they may start their own thread. No more than one non-Christian (the OP) may post in a thread.

All Original Posts (OPs) -- the posts that start a new thread -- must contain an identifiable question about the Christian faith. Questions and statements that are direct flames or that imply a flame against Christianity, Christians, or any other group are inappropriate to this site, and will be removed.

The OP is the only non-Christian that may respond to the question they've posted. In other words, the OP is the only non-Christian who may participate in the thread.

Those Christians who do elect to attempt to answer the OP's question must address the OP only. If you disagree with another Christian's answer, either reaffirm your stance (to the OP) or do not respond at all.

The OP MUST be posed in the form of a question. Claims, accusations, or other statements that are not in the form of a question will result in the prompt removal of the thread. This is by design - to keep the discussions orderly.

The other Site Rules will apply, as do the rules against Blasphemy, Flaming, and Debating.

In general, none of the Ministry forums, including E.C. allow debate. Ministry is a NO DEBATE area, period. Discussion, not debate is the rule throughout the Ministry forums. This applies to ALL members, non-Christian and Christian. The purpose of Ministry is to *minister* to the needs of our members - iow to *serve* one another.

------
The OP posed the question:

What is wrong with robust and vigorous debates over religious ideas and opinions?

The simple answer to that is that there's nothing wrong with robust and vigorous debate... except in those forums whose purpose does not include vigorous debate in its charter. There are other forums on CF whose charter does include robust and vigorous debate, which is where such debates should be taken. Ministry is for ministering, serving one another.

Speaking strictly from my own experience here, and strictly per my opinion - the "history" of debate in the Ministry forums, when it was allowed, typically did not produce positive results. Worse, it rarely, if ever produced any productive results. Most often debates ended in off-topic side-bar discussions, baiting, flaming, and general malaise on the forum. Debates are/were most typically between several sides, each with intractable positions for which a conclusion or positive ending was never reached. This is simply, imo, counter to the purpose of ministry, serving.

I hope this is helpful.

If there are any questions, I or any other staff members would be more than happy to try to answer them.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

DerSchweik
Ministry Forum Supervisor

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No Debates Here?

TheBear

NON-WOKED

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AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

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AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

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TheBear

NON-WOKED

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Lotuspetal_uk

Say 'CHEESE!!!!'

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TheBear

NON-WOKED

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Crazy Liz

Well-Known Member

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Lotuspetal_uk

Say 'CHEESE!!!!'

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DerSchweik

Spend time in His Word - every day

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