Vaccines cultured out of aborted fetal cells

Abortion is intrinsically evil and thus nothing good can ever come of it. Thus vaccines made from the cells of dead humans is intrinsically evil.

Maybe this organization could help provide some guidelines and info: http://www.cmda.org/AM/Template.cfm

My DH and I discovered this fact when it was time for our son's first vaccination. We even had confirmation of it from the companies that manufacture the vaccines. Based on the fact that we are 100% pro-life and have no desire to have our son "benefit" from murdered children, we declined to have him vaccinated. Since then we have done lots of other research on vaccines and discovered that there are plenty of other reasons for not vaccinating your child, anyway (lots of health issues and cover-ups).

Most pediatricians know nothing about this because they only read the literature that vaccine-promoters (people making a profit from sales of vaccine) give them.

In a forum where we readily express opinions, often dissenting, on every imaginable topic, why has this subject failed to engender debate?

Am I missing something here?

Does everyone already know all about this, and are unanimous in their [silent] disapproval?

...

I am not looking for a debate on Holy Friday, and I don't want to disturb the peace and prayers of my brethren, so perhaps Monday would be a better time to respond to this topic, to resume this thread.

But I am really concerned about how underwhelmed people seem to be concerning the use of cell-lines from aborted babies in vaccines. I have never heard of it until recently, and I grew up in a staunchly pro-life family, where even my retired grandfather was secretary to a large pro-life group. Why hadn't I heard this?

I have spent some months informing others about this ... doctors, paediatricians, fellow Orthodox, parents, etc. ... no one knew, with the exception of my priest, and he had only found out about it in the preceding 6 months, and hadn't informed his congregation.

Where is the outrage?

I have a fear, a niggling fear, that no one is willing to address this because we are comfortable opposing abortion in general, but dislike to oppose its side benefits when they might mean that our children will be healthier. I pray that this is not so.

Vasya.

Dear Vasya,

I am praying ... what else can I do.

Yes, this deceit by the pharmaceutical cartel cries to heaven for revenge.

They produce statin drugs that kill and they produce vaccine from dead children.

Furthermore, have you heard that California has mandated the radiating or microwaving of all nuts, fruits, and vegetables, so that all of our foods will haveno nutritional value?

Then these same cartels want to close down the health food industry and outlaw all OTC vitamins.

It is cradle to grave socialism.

MsDahl said:

Vasya,

Could you clarify who the object of this outrage you are attempting to incite would be? I hope that you mean the government, the medical community and all the other entities that represent "the man" and not me as the person who began this thread. I would ask that you be more clear when you express your disapproval with the fact that my question has failed to engender debate among the Orthodox faithful.

You see, my question was an honest one and one that I was unaware of to this point in my son's vaccine schedule. The way you worded your post seems awfully accusatory to me as guess what, my son may have received a vaccine that was cultured out of aborted fetal cells when I was ignorant to this fact (and not for lack of reading and researching the topic).

Forgive me but I am uncomfortable with how unclear you worded your accusatory post. Please state who you are accusing.

Thank you,
Ms Dahl

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Ms. Dahl:

You have my sincere apologies for my lack of articulation. I wrote too quickly, and with too much emotion, and that is rarely conducive to clarity.

I want to thank you for addressing the issue, as it is something that needs to be on the radar of the faithful. I also appreciate that you are concerned with where to go from here (I fully sympathize, as my wife and I have had to grapple with this too, and on our own). The fact that you asked for the Orthodox position on the matter is evidence to me that the topic has not been adequately addressed. In my opinion,the Orthodox Church shouldn't be unclear on where we stand on vaccines derived from the unborn.

I am not railing against you. I am responding to the topic out of my grievance with several issues.

Here are the points that have me upset:

1) The pharmaceutical industry made a unilateral decision to use viruses grown in cells cultured from aborted babies in their vaccine production. Since the 60's and 70's all vaccinated children have "benefitted" from this Frankenstein technology. That includes me, and it probably includes you.

2) The doctors, nurses, paediatricians, and others that have significant pull upon the emotions of the new parent will blindly promote vaccines without any awareness of their ingredients, and they do not offer this information to parents. (Fortunately, this information is available online in the product monographs put out by the various vaccine-makers.)

3) The pro-life movement, as a broad-base and multilateral entity, is curiously silent on this issue. The technology has been in place since the 1960's, and information has been available and public that long - it is inconceivable to me that they could be wholly in ignorance of fetal-cell vaccines for the past forty years.

4) When I have told others (family, friends, fellow parishioners) about these vaccines, I have not heard back the kind of horrified wrath and nauseated indignation that I would have expected. This leaves me feeling curiously like I am shouting truth into an empty room. And I don't know why this is.

5) I have found precisely three Orthodox on-line who have written on this issue (decrying it as an abomination and a horror). One has since closed his blog. A fourth Orthodox, commenting on one of these mini-essays, opined that these vaccines were a glorious example of good coming out of evil. My soul still feels sick that an Orthodox would say such a thing, and I lament that there are not more Orthodox writing about this, talking about it, acting against it.

So when I spoke earlier about my niggling fears about silence on this forum, it was not directed at you, but at the silence that everywhere surrounds this issue.

Yours,
Vasya.

There isn't a large gap between these babies and our vaccines. Here is what is happening, for the uninformed:

Back in the 60's, before abortion was legalized, many children were aborted for "psychological" reasons. This was code that the mothers (or fathers) did not want them.

Immediately after a few such abortions, doctors took the aborted baby and dissected it. They then took some samples of flesh and began to grow them. The body of the child was dead, and its flesh was decaying, so the doctors kept the flesh sample artificially alive and began to stimulate the cells to divide and grow.

Each sample of continuously produced flesh is called a "cell-line."

The doctors experimented with various cell-lines to determine which grew viruses the best. There are two cell-lines that are used most commonly today: "MRC-5" and "WI-38."

In these cells viruses (such as the poliovirus) are grown. Then the viruses are removed from the cells, weakened or otherwise attenuated, and then incorporated as the active ingredient (the ingredient to which the body responds to produce antibodies) in a vaccine.

The gap from murder to medicine is not a distant one. Most of the antiviral vaccines we use today use viruses grown in the artificially living flesh of a baby aborted forty years ago.

And here's the kicker - the decision was made to use our aborted babies because the head researcher felt that using monkeys was unethical.

Vasya.

It's terrible to read about this. I was wondering exactly which vaccines. Does anyone have a list?

Thank you MsDahl for this thread and for the info and everyone that posted. I had no idea. I am shocked and surprised I haven't heard anything about the topic herein discussed. Have I been blind or what!

MsDahl, you have my prayers with your decision. God bless.

-Peace-

Dorothea said:

It's terrible to read about this. I was wondering exactly which vaccines. Does anyone have a list?

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Ms. Dahl's link didn't come through for me.

Here it is again:

http://www.dgwsoft.co.uk/homepages/vaccines/alternatives.htm

That is www dot dgwsoft dot co dot uk slash homepages slash vaccines slash alternatives dot htm

Vasya.

MsDahl said:

Vasya, thank you greatly for your clarification. I am glad I asked and did not assume as that would have made for some serious miscommunication and could have derailed this thread. I was curious why this thread was nearing the second page and only 2 responses. I did find it a bit unsettling.

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You are most welcome.

I, myself, am frustrated that I did not know this information until recently. Granted, I was not specifically looking for this information, but who would think about looking to find out if aborted humans were used to create vaccines!? It is not something an ethical human being would even contemplate.

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Indeed.

But you would think some Christian working in the medical fields would have alerted the pro-life groups long before now, wouldn't you?

Now, I am left to make a difficult decision. Hep A and Rubella are two vaccines with no licensed alternative in the US and then I'd be allowing my child to be exposed to a preventable disease. Could a parent be accused of negligence because of this?

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Yes, they could.

There is a case (in California, I believe) where a mother who was opposed to vaccines for philosophical reasons (in her case, doubts as to the safety of certain toxins found in vaccines) had her son removed by the relevant children's aid group on the grounds of neglect.

After some time of the boy resting in their care, the mother "kidnapped" her son and fled to Canada. She was extradited and her son removed for good. So, yes, a parent can be accused of negligence.

Most states allow a child to escape vaccination if there is a religious objection to vaccines, and some permit philosophical objections. The tricky part is proving a religious objection to vaccines when the Church does not have canons or position documents against them; apparently religious objections are usually scrutinized very closely.

In my case, I have not had to sort through U.S. state legislation on vaccines, as I am Canadian. Canada does not mandate vaccinations (it only assumes them and heavily encourages them). Children who have not been vaccinated cannot attend public school, unless they have a waiver citing religious or philosophical objection. So on the whole our system seems a lot more friendly (at this time) towards concerned parents than the US system. I do not envy you.

Vasya.

Vasya Davidovich said:

Ms. Dahl's link didn't come through for me.

Here it is again:

http://www.dgwsoft.co.uk/homepages/vaccines/alternatives.htm

That is www dot dgwsoft dot co dot uk slash homepages slash vaccines slash alternatives dot htm

Vasya.

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Thanks to Ms. Dahl and you.

MsDahl said:

Oops, thanks for correcting the link, Vasya. And thank you Tigg for your prayers.

I would never describe myself as a holy woman. I sin many times during the day. I struggle with vulgarity. So, I almost feel hypocritical taking a stand on a vaccine issue that will protect my son's life because of my beliefs. As it is, I am already doing a poor job holding true to these same beliefs.

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Ahh, but you are a lady who cares. Who is trying. I applaud you. Your decision is finally yours. No stones from me. Life is hard enough and you do have a hard choice but one you are deeply concerned about. Tis those who don't care that bother me.

Wishing you a blessed Pascha.

-Peace-

hi, Ms. Dahl

please speak to your priest about this; although we knew this info by the time baby # 6 was ready, we were living in a city where children had been removed (2 families) and, while "in care", vaccinated. One family had their child returned, and subsequently fled the state. The children of the other family were not returned.

I don't mean to frighten you, and to be honest, our decision to go ahead reflected our fear. But it is important to consider your area in the decision.

Certainly, this is an area where pro-life groups may wish to focus efforts.

Bishop Joseph asked a priest who is familiar with these bioethic concerns to address a priestly retreat for the February retreat. This was back in 2003, I think.

They discussed euthanasia, cancer treatments and the pharmaceutical-Nazi connection, artificially determined brain death and organ transfers, abortion and abortion-related products (vaccines and cures for senility and Alzheimers) and finally Genetically Modified Foods (GMO) produced by the Cabal.

There are so many fronts in which unethical people are attacking us. Abortion is just one evil. But the harvesting of human organs includes those people in comas who are considered ripe for harvesting organs. Anyone who becomes ill is a candidate for organ removal, and of course, premature death. People in the know tell me that they do not use anesthesia on people who are determined to be brain dead, and that those people do awake while the surgery is in progress. Imagine awakening to seeing someone harvesting your own organs!

In this retreat, which our priest mentioned in his sermon, Monsanto's GMO foods were discussed. In this case, rat genes were introduced to the worldwide corn production. Monsanto is growing a lot of corn to make methanol. Rat genes reduces the necessity of using pesticides because nothing likes to eat it. Insects avoid it and some insects living in the adjacent fields die -- one of which is the Monarch butterfly and honey bees. People who live next to Monasanto corn fields, especially those in the Philippines have an increased risk of cancer. It seems that even the pollen from this corn causes irritation -- allergies and cancer. Then there is the threat of diabetes. The high-fructose corn syrup in all our sodas is from this GMO corn and with the consumption of this corn syrup, there has been a dramatic increase in diabetes.

Not to mention all the diet sodas and other foods produced with aspartame. This triggers liver disorders because aspartame is converted by the liver into formaldehyde, which used to be used to embalm people. Yes, people who drink diet products with aspartame are embalming themselves.

There is an internet group called CDC which tries to attack all these unethical concerns. I will edit this post later and add their url.

MsDahl said:

Now, I am left to make a difficult decision. Hep A and Rubella are two vaccines with no licensed alternative in the US and then I'd be allowing my child to be exposed to a preventable disease. Could a parent be accused of negligence because of this?

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Laws on vaccination exemptions vary by state/country. You can usually get some good information here: http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm In most places, there doesn't have to be a church policy/statement/whatever for you to sincerely object on religious grounds.