Word Faith/Positive Confession

"2Ki 13:14 Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died. And Joash the king of Israel came down unto him, and wept over his face, and said, O my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. "

We must rem we are on this side of the cross. things have changed becos of what Christ did.

Originally posted by wildernesse
"Your sick because your not obedient. Or your sick because you won't listen to what God says."

What about children? Is that just nature like hobart said earlier? Why do people who don't believe in God live long healthy lives? Is it luck?

--tibac

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There is no luck with God only grace, mercy and forgiveness. People can have good health under the law. Ask any doctor, eat right, exercise, take care of yourself, live right and you can have good  health. How much more can we have good health now that we live under grace.

As far as children, it is up to the parents to protect and shelter the child. To provide a prayer cover with the Blood of Jesus over them. Right now I feel a strong draw to do something on the mission field to help the children who have evil and wicked parents and who are starving because of it. Not only are they hungery for food, but for the word of God. I believe as Christians, that is where we really need to step in and provide some very practical help.

Also, as a member of the methodist church, during every child baptism service, we agree to do just that. Everything we can to help parents to raise their child in the admonition of the lord. As Christians, I feel our commitment to helping the children should be very real, and then let the children witness to the parents.

Maybe some of that is because it is more easy. Children have not been lied to, and so they are much easier to teach than an adult that has been lied to about God. Old people are easy also, because they would not have lived to be old if they were not doing something right. They often just need a reminder, but also, they often do not believe the lies anymore. It is many of those inbetween that fights against the truth.

John:

I don't believe in luck either--but the previous quote implied that the only way for someone to be healthy was to be obedient and listening to God. But this contradicts the fact that there are healthy people who are not obedient or listening to God--or do not even believe that there is a God. They are not living strictly by the law either--why are they healthy, if you are sick because of disobedience or hard-heartedness?

Looks to me like there are other reasons for being sick.

--tibac

Originally posted by LouisBooth
I agree, the Holy Spirit does heal through us, but not always, and that doesn't mean we have any less faith.

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That really is one of the more complicted things, is just when does God heal, and when does He not heal. I just presented the information that no matter what the conditions are, for Him to heal, He is the one who does the healing.

I believe that Jesus walked in divine health. So for someone to get sick in the first place, something had to have gone wrong somewhere. Even when my car breaks down, sometimes I do not have a clue as to what is wrong or how to fix it. It can be the same thing with our health. It can be difficult to figure out just what the problem is and how to fix it. But the good news is that Jesus is the Great Physician, and when we go to Him, He can tell us what to do.

Often if we spent as much time in praying seeking after God, we may accomplish more than if we had spent that same amount of time going to a doctor for his advise and opinion. We believe in good doctors and good medicine, but you need to be careful and you need to be lead by God before you go to a man for help. People can make pretty big mistakes.

The main thing is to seek after God. If we seek after Him with a honest heart, we will find Him. But if we seek after Him wanting to play games, we maybe in trouble, He may not want to play our game. We need to play by His rules if we want to be a part of what HE is doing.

We live in a time of great apostasy and we need to try and walk in the light and in the truth. There is a lot of deception in this world, and we are suppose to be able to help people find their way out of it.

Originally posted by Andrew
My question is: how do you guys go about hearing from Jesus himself (what HE has to say abt your particular situation) when you encounter a problem. Quiet time? Bible reading? thanks

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The Bible says to seek and you shall find. When I got saved, I was looking for God in all the wrong places, but I was found by Him, because He knows our heart and He knows I was really looking to find Him, and not just wanting to play some sort of a game.

There is just to much deception in this world, and we need to quit kidding ourselves and face truth. To many people hide in the darkness and claim they want to know God, but they do not want to step out of the darkness into the light because they do not want to come clean and live right before God.

"We must rem we are on this side of the cross. things have changed becos of what Christ did.
"

No in terms of spiritual building up andrew. God still uses sickness and is not concerned with it as much as your spiritual sickness. thus he allows or causes the body to degrade so that your spirit will be strengthened. Ecc 7:14

oh, and just for the record if you think that its call changed, then all the promices people like to quote from the OT then no longer apply to christians. Can't have your cake and eat it too

"So for someone to get sick in the first place, something had to have gone wrong somewhere. "

That's right, we live in a fallen world, that's what's wrong, it has NOTHING to do with us. Read John 9, you can be sick and it has NOTHING to do with sin. thus christ could have also been sick.

Originally posted by LouisBooth

That's right, we live in a fallen world, that's what's wrong, it has NOTHING to do with us. Read John 9, you can be sick and it has NOTHING to do with sin. thus christ could have also been sick.

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I wonder if He was ever tempted to just heal those coughs and sniffles.

Originally posted by SnuP
How do you reconsile your beliefs with this.

 

Matthew 6:

28“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

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Where in these verses does it state that we will be rich or wealthy?  Jesus is very clearly pointing out God's concern and care for us, no promises of wealth and health here. 

Matthew 5:

6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 

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They will be filled with riches and health?  You think this verse is a physical promise?  The key word in this verse is righteousness.

"I wonder if He was ever tempted to just heal those coughs and sniffles"

If he had them, I'm sure he might, just as Satan tempted to use his power to feed himself in the desert.

"no promises of wealth and health here.Ê" you sure?

Deu 28
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

Ge 13:2 And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.
Ge 14:23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

1Sa 2:7 The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

Job 42:12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.

Ps 49:16 Be not thou afraid when one is made rich, when the glory of his house is increased;

Pr 10:4 He becometh poor that dealeth with a slack hand: but the hand of the diligent maketh rich.

Pr 10:22 The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.

Pr 22:2 The rich and poor meet together: the LORD is the maker of them all.

1Co 4:8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.

2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

like it or not, health and wealth is part of the Good News.

All of those are cases where I could easily see the case being made for a spiritual richness.

 

Matthew
6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal
6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal
6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Luke

6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

12:13 And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.
12:14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?
12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully
12:17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
12:18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

It is Satan that teaches people to chase after the things of the world. remember he was the one who told Jesus he would give him the world if he would boy down and worship him.

Teaching people that God wants them to have worldy riches is not teaching them to seek after the right kind of riches. The riches we should be seeking come from God and are not of this world, but are of a spiritual nature.

 

Health and wealth in our worldly view may be entirely different from God's view of our health and wealth.

I think that God is concerned primarily with our spiritual growth--not with the accumulation of worldly riches or preoccupied with perfect health. If you gain the whole world, but lose your soul what have you?

--tibac

I don't think that being poor or sick adds to your spiritual health or wealth--and I don't think that being well or rich adds to your spiritual health or wealth. I think that Paul is a good example because he had learned to be content in whatever situation with whatever he had--content in God's will.

As Christians, we should be focused on Christ--proclaiming the good news and loving those around us. Jesus tells us not to worry or be concerned about tomorrow or the clothes we'll wear or the food we'll eat. God is our Provider. He will provide us the strength to bear our burdens--if we have any at all.

I don't believe that those who are not "faith people" think that to be impoverished means you are more spiritual. They simply object to the thought that you are more spiritual because you are wealthy in worldly things. Having your needs (all of them) adequately met is not living in poverty--because you are not rolling in the dough doesn't mean you are not growing spiritually--because you have a cold doesn't mean you are not growing spiritually.

I don't think that either extreme is healthy--I see one side as glorifying themselves through their faith and the other as not acknowledging that God moves today in powerful ways. Our faith is important--it is through our belief that we move in our love through this world, sharing God's blessings with others. But it is God's power in our lives that transforms us and empowers us and our faith.

I believe that you can be prosperous and not worldly and poor and obsessed with worldly things. My grandfather says that God never meant His children to live on Barely-Get-Along Avenue--and I believe that to be the case. I also think that we can focus too much on the Joneses and think that we live on B-G-A Avenue no matter where we are. My problem is saying that those believers who aren't in full health or in the highest economic level don't have a good relationship with God.

--tibac

Originally posted by wildernesse

I don't think that either extreme is healthy--I see one side as glorifying themselves through their faith and the other as not acknowledging that God moves today in powerful ways. Our faith is important--it is through our belief that we move in our love through this world, sharing God's blessings with others. But it is God's power in our lives that transforms us and empowers us and our faith.

--tibac

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You are right.  I have shared this thougth over and over againg.  On these forums, I believe the side I have most been associated with has given balanced views.  However, the other side keeps going off in directions we don't go. 

One time I said, "God meets all my needs", and the person shot back, "so you can say you want a mercedes and poof, one's in your driveway". 

What kind of logic is that?  I did not say anything about a mercedes or a poof!