How can you tell a Christian from a non-Christian.

crazyfingers · Apr 18, 2007

HisWordIsMySword said:
Do not be deceived. Hell does exist and it is the place where all who die in their sins will be cast. It is the place where the souls of the unrighteous are reserved until the day of Judgement.

It is our adversary the devil who does not what you to believe in this place known as death and hell.

He wants you to believe that when you die, it is like going to sleep. This is a teaching that comes from a religion that is not of God and their doctrine is poisonous to the soul.

If a man thinks death is just like going to sleep, he will not fear death. Yet, the moment he dies, if not born again, his soul will be cast into hell.

It is the devil who wants you to not fear death. It is his goal to steal your soul.

When Adam sinned, he sold the souls of all mankind unto the devil. So all who died prior to Jesus' death and resurrection were held in one of two places. The unrighteous dead were held in the place known as lower hell, where they are tormented, punished and reserved until the day of Judgement. The righteous dead where held in the place known as the upper part of hell, also known as the Bosom of Abraham. They were held there because of original sin and could not escape until Jesus set them free.

Jesus went into hell and preached to the captive souls being held in the upper part of hell. These souls could not be saved unless they first speak with the fruit of their lips and confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Pet. 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

I don't suppose that you have any evidence to support your claims? If not, why on earth should anyone believe that it's anything but made up?

Beanieboy · Apr 18, 2007

HisWordIsMySword said:
Jesus went into hell and preached to the captive souls being held in the upper part of hell. These souls could not be saved unless they first speak with the fruit of their lips and confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Pet. 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Can you provide a chapter and verse where it specifically says that Jesus preached to the captive souls in the upper part of hell?

Are you also saying that one is not forever in hell, but can be released by simply confessing that Jesus is Lord, and accepting them as their savior in hell?

And if that were true, why would anyone stay in hell?

Christianity has this strange way of making the Satan seem like he's just slightly less powerful than God, when he is actually just an archangel, according to the bible - no more powerful than Gabriel.

As I said - most Lutherans had Lutheran parents, and grandparents, and great grandparents. Most Catholics had Catholic parents, and grand parents.

Religion is as much a family tradition than anything else. People get "saved", but most just go along with the beliefs of their families.

For that reason, it seems that one's soul is more often than not a fate decided by what family the soul is born into, and that doesn't make logical sense.

Theogonia · Apr 18, 2007

HisWordIsMySword said:
Do not be deceived. Hell does exist and it is the place where all who die in their sins will be cast. It is the place where the souls of the unrighteous are reserved until the day of Judgement.

And what makes you so certain that you're right?

It is our adversary the devil who does not what you to believe in this place known as death and hell.

He wants you to believe that when you die, it is like going to sleep. This is a teaching that comes from a religion that is not of God and their doctrine is poisonous to the soul.

Once again, why is your way of thinking the only correct one?

If a man thinks death is just like going to sleep, he will not fear death. Yet, the moment he dies, if not born again, his soul will be cast into hell.

Correct in a small way, but not by your definition of being born again.

When Adam sinned, he sold the souls of all mankind unto the devil. So all who died prior to Jesus' death and resurrection were held in one of two places. The unrighteous dead were held in the place known as lower hell, where they are tormented, punished and reserved until the day of Judgement. The righteous dead where held in the place known as the upper part of hell, also known as the Bosom of Abraham. They were held there because of original sin and could not escape until Jesus set them free.

Riiight. For your information there is no such thing as original sin.

For the idea of original sin is that as soon as we are born into this world we are sinful, and that is completely false.

Jesus went into hell and preached to the captive souls being held in the upper part of hell. These souls could not be saved unless they first speak with the fruit of their lips and confession is made unto salvation.

HAHAHA.

I love these myths parading around that have no basis in logic or even the bible.

HisWordIsMySword · Apr 23, 2007

Can you provide a chapter and verse where it specifically says that Jesus preached to the captive souls in the upper part of hell?

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Eph. 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

l Pet. 318 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Ezekiel 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to Sheol with those who descend into the pit; and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, were comforted in the lower parts of the earth.

Ezekiel 32:18 Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, to the lower parts of the earth, with those who go down into the pit.

Ezekiel 32:24 There is Elam and all her multitude around her grave; all of them slain, fallen by the sword, who are gone down uncircumcised into the lower parts of the earth, who caused their terror in the land of the living, and have borne their shame with those who go down to the pit.

1 Samuel 28 >>
King James Bible

Luke 16:22 It happened that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried.

Are you also saying that one is not forever in hell, but can be released by simply confessing that Jesus is Lord, and accepting them as their savior in hell?

And if that were true, why would anyone stay in hell?

All who died before Jesus was resurrected went to one of two places. The place of torment or the bosom of Abraham.

The unrighteous were put into the place of punishment or the lower part of hell which is signified by the story of Lazarus and the rich man.

The righteous dead were held in the upper part of hell in the place known as the bosom of Abraham.

As for those died and were deemed unrighteous in the eyes of God, there is no escape for them. They will be reserved there until the day of judgement.

HannahBanana · Apr 23, 2007

To answer the original question, the only way to tell a non-Christian from a Christian is to ask them, since non-Christians can be just as moral, well-behaved, and generally good human beings as Christians can. Mahatma Gandhi is a great example of this.

crazyfingers · Apr 23, 2007

Waiting for HisWordIsMySword to answer the question below.

crazyfingers said:
I don't suppose that you have any evidence to support your claims? If not, why on earth should anyone believe that it's anything but made up?

Theogonia · Apr 23, 2007

HisWordIsMySword said:
All who died before Jesus was resurrected went to one of two places. The place of torment or the bosom of Abraham.

The unrighteous were put into the place of punishment or the lower part of hell which is signified by the story of Lazarus and the rich man.

The righteous dead were held in the upper part of hell in the place known as the bosom of Abraham.

As for those died and were deemed unrighteous in the eyes of God, there is no escape for them. They will be reserved there until the day of judgement.

I suppose you don't realize that this makes no logical sense, and is only "supported" by a few extremely vague verses.

It sounds to me like yet another myth the church cooked up in order to explain how people that died before Jesus went to heaven, to support their false doctrine that accepting Jesus as the messiah is the only way you get to heaven.

crumbs2000 · Apr 23, 2007

The UPPER PART of HELL? You mean the balcony seats?

What? You mean in Hell, there are even better places than your standard infernal damnation room?

All of this is made up. I'm sorry but Abrahams Bossom is not the Box seat in Hell.

And the rich just get buried but beggars go to heaven? That's funny, most Christians esp. evangelical ones amass copious amounts of personal wealth.

Actually it's easy to tell which ones are Christians and which ones are not. They are the ones who usually judge people.

Beanieboy · Apr 24, 2007

HippieForChrist said:
To answer the original question, the only way to tell a non-Christian from a Christian is to ask them, since non-Christians can be just as moral, well-behaved, and generally good human beings as Christians can. Mahatma Gandhi is a great example of this.

No. The difference is that Nonchristians have more white meat.

HisWordIsMySword · Apr 26, 2007

crumbs2000 said:
The UPPER PART of HELL? You mean the balcony seats?

What? You mean in Hell, there are even better places than your standard infernal damnation room?

All of this is made up. I'm sorry but Abrahams Bossom is not the Box seat in Hell.

And the rich just get buried but beggars go to heaven? That's funny, most Christians esp. evangelical ones amass copious amounts of personal wealth.

Actually it's easy to tell which ones are Christians and which ones are not. They are the ones who usually judge people.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]<< 1 Samuel 28 >>
King James Bible[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1 And it came to pass in those days, that the Philistines gathered their armies together for warfare, to fight with Israel. And Achish said unto David, Know thou assuredly, that thou shalt go out with me to battle, thou and thy men. 2 And David said to Achish, Surely thou shalt know what thy servant can do. And Achish said to David, Therefore will I make thee keeper of mine head for ever. 3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land. 4 And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa. 5 And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled. 6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. 7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. 8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. 9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die? 10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. 11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. 15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. 16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? 17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbor, even to David: 18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. 20 Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.[/FONT]

.Sabre. · Apr 27, 2007

Read the instructions on how to become a true Christian(i.e. the Bible). Then you'll know how they do it.

Theogonia · Apr 27, 2007

Quite a lot of non-christians fit that description.

Beanieboy · Apr 28, 2007

And a lot of Christians don't.

HisWordIsMySword · Apr 29, 2007

All of this is made up. I'm sorry but Abrahams Bossom is not the Box seat in Hell.

Do you believe that all who died before Jesus' resurrection were lost? They could not be saved from death because Jesus had not yet defeated through his death and resurrection.

So what happened to them? Did they just vanish, cease to exist? Was all that happened in the OT just done to benefit all who came after the resurrection?

Before Jesus, all who died were either righteous or unrighteous. Yet, none could be saved from death for death had not been defeated.

What does it say in scripture of how a man comes to salvation?

Rom. 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Now all who died prior to the resurrection could not confess with their mouths because the resurrection had not taken place. Yet, scripture tells us that the heart a man believes unto righteousness. And there were many in the OT who did just that.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Abraham believed every word God spoke and it was attributed to him as righteousness. Now, what benefit would it serve to be righteous if he was to remain in death for eternity? Abraham knew there would come a day his soul would be freed from death, that place known as hell and death.

Yet, it did not happen for many years after he died in the flesh. Did his soul cease to exist. No.

Yet, he could not go to be with God until Jesus defeated death.

For it is written a man must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. Abraham could not be born again unless he could confess unto salvation. And if he did not exist, if he just ceased to exist when he died in the flesh, he could not make confession unto salvation. For he had already been judged righteous in the eyes of God.

A soul of a man will either be tossed into hell for all eternity or will go to be with Jesus and be saved from the place known as hell and death.

That is why when Jesus says he who believes in me will never die. We all will die in the flesh, so he was not saying we will never die in the flesh, he was saying our souls will never die and to die unsaved a soul is cast into eternal death.

That is why when Jesus said he who believes in me, though he be dead, yet shall he live. Jesus was saying though a man dies in the flesh, his soul will not.

Nathan Poe · Apr 29, 2007

HisWordIsMySword said:
Do you believe that all who died before Jesus' resurrection were lost? They could not be saved from death because Jesus had not yet defeated through his death and resurrection.

So, did they have to be herded into a special part of Hell? "Hell Lite," so that Jesus could find them later?

So what happened to them? Did they just vanish, cease to exist? Was all that happened in the OT just done to benefit all who came after the resurrection?

The OT was never written to be the prequel to the NT -- the Early church had to do some theological gymnastics to shoehorn them together.

Before Jesus, all who died were either righteous or unrighteous. Yet, none could be saved from death for death had not been defeated.

And then along comes Paul telling us that there are no righteous. Go figure.

Abraham believed every word God spoke and it was attributed to him as righteousness. Now, what benefit would it serve to be righteous if he was to remain in death for eternity?

So -- acting in such a way because and only because there's something in it for you? Doesn't sound all that righteous to me.

Theogonia · Apr 29, 2007

What benefit would it serve to be righteous?!?

How about because your being righteous can help other people with their struggles, and help spread love and compassion, and most of all help to spread GOD.

You christians speak of righteousness as though it is only worth being righteous so you get to go to heaven, but you also say there is no such thing as righteousness anyway because no one is righteous.

Is it just me or is this a double standard.

HisWordIsMySword · Apr 30, 2007

Nathan,

What made Abraham righteous in the eyes of God was not his own righteousness, but his faith in believing all God told him. Because he believed, it was accounted unto him as righteousness.

So when you speak of Paul saying none are righteous, he is speaking the truth. It is our belief in he who is righteous and true, which is faith in God's Son, that we come into righteousness. Not on our own, but believing in him who lived a life without sin.

When we believe and are saved, born again, he that lived a righteous life, he that lived a life without sin comes and lives in us. And the more we allow him to work his perfect work in us, the more we believe every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God, the more righteousness lives through us. Yet, those who are saved believe not because they fill they have to, but because they want to. And the reason being is that they love God with all their hearts, minds and souls. And they love their brothers as themselves.

HisWordIsMySword · Apr 30, 2007

You christians speak of righteousness as though it is only worth being righteous so you get to go to heaven, but you also say there is no such thing as righteousness anyway because no one is righteous.

There is two forms of righteousness in this world. God's and man's.

Man who is imperfect proclaims a righteousness that is established in his own eyes, his own self righteousness.

Yet, it is written all men are sinners and guilty of death. The reason being is our disobedience to he who created us. Can the creation be greater then the Creator?

God could have made it to where we did not have a choice. Yet, that is not what a loving God would do. He gave us choice to follow him or not. He wants us to follow him because we love him, not because we have to. He wants those who love what is faithful and true, those who love righteousness, to follow him. If a man loves truly loves those things, he will love God.

God wants children, not slaves. So a man can either choose to be a child of God or a slave to sin.

crazyfingers · Apr 30, 2007

HisWordIsMySword said:
There is two forms of righteousness in this world. God's and man's.

Man who is imperfect proclaims a righteousness that is established in his own eyes, his own self righteousness.

Yet, it is written all men are sinners and guilty of death. The reason being is our disobedience to he who created us. Can the creation be greater then the Creator?

God could have made it to where we did not have a choice. Yet, that is not what a loving God would do. He gave us choice to follow him or not. He wants us to follow him because we love him, not because we have to. He wants those who love what is faithful and true, those who love righteousness, to follow him. If a man loves truly loves those things, he will love God.

God wants children, not slaves. So a man can either choose to be a child of God or a slave to sin.

I know of no reason to believe that that's true.

RealityCheck · Apr 30, 2007

HisWordIsMySword said:
There is two forms of righteousness in this world. God's and man's.

Man who is imperfect proclaims a righteousness that is established in his own eyes, his own self righteousness.

Yet, it is written all men are sinners and guilty of death. The reason being is our disobedience to he who created us. Can the creation be greater then the Creator?

Yes, this is why many sci-fi writers have written about computers/robots becoming more powerful than the humans that made them.

Creations become greater than their creator all the time. Sons become better men than their fathers, daughters become greater than their mothers.

God could have made it to where we did not have a choice. Yet, that is not what a loving God would do. He gave us choice to follow him or not. He wants us to follow him because we love him, not because we have to. He wants those who love what is faithful and true, those who love righteousness, to follow him. If a man loves truly loves those things, he will love God.

But we do have to follow him if we want to avoid eternal punishment, right?

In any case, the scriptures don't back up this position - they clearly state that no one loves righteousness and no one is good.

God wants children, not slaves. So a man can either choose to be a child of God or a slave to sin.

Yet even the greatest of the apostles describe themselves not as "children of God" but as "slaves in Christ." Paul even wrote at length about the difference between "being slave to sin" and "being slave to Christ."

How can you tell a Christian from a non-Christian.

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