The End of Times

Originally posted by Warrior4Jah
*shakes his head vigorously*

 

As I go through this thread im becoming exceedingly confused! Here is what I know! There will be the second coming of Christ, He shall take all followers who believe in Him. After the Antichrist has risen and signed the treaty with the Nation of Israel, this will signal the seven year Tribulation. There will be the horses, the pale hores, the black horse etc. The seven seals, etc. The plagues, etc. Including the earthquake God shall rellease upon the earth. I almost forgot about the Two Witnesses who shall preach the word, anyone  who trys to harm them  will be burned to death, etc. And I almost forgot about the 144 thousand evangelists who will travel the globe, bringing more and more to Christ.  Eventually at the end the survivors who have come to believe in and accept Christ will witness Jesus returning to set up his thousand year kingdom, in which satan shall be cast into the pit until the 1000 years are up.

This is what I know.

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No offense! I
But...shall we not to need a thus sayest the Word to back up our [belief]??

I too, am convicted in what 'i' believe. Please give me scripture so as i can compare it with the Master's Words? 2 Tim. 3:16 says "ALL SCRIPTURE" IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, FOR REPROOF, (me!) FOR CORRECTION, FOR [INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTOUSNESS]." (This is my Christian desire too!)

DeMar (Reformed) is a good choice, as is N.T. Wright (Anglican) and Scott Hahn (Catholic). How's that for an ecumenical lineup?

What most people claim to "know" about the "end times" or "last days" is nothing more than what they've heard from some kook on TV who claims to be reading the Bible but is, in fact, reading into the Bible a whole lot of stuff that isn't there.

It is a simple enough undertaking to explain how the Christian eschatological hope that God will at last restore his whole creation is based not on some as yet unfulfilled prophecy but, rather, on the decisive work God has already done through the death and resurrection of Christ. But those whose most cherished belief can be summed up on a bumper sticker ("Beam me up, Lord!" or "In case of rapture, this car will be unmanned"), are simply not interested. So why even bother?

Originally posted by e4God
Pastor NB

Most of Warrior's post sounds like it comes from scripture to me.

 

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Hi,
you are not understanding my remark. I was asking [FOR SCRIPTURE].
There is no questioning as to one believing as they do intended! OK?

Case in point:
"... If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, [He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, least at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone]." Matt. 4:6

This was the 'd'evil speaking to Christ. And the [ ] (brackets) of my emphasis are inclosed around almost the exact Words of the Master in Psalms 91:11's promise! What is wrong with that PROMISE?

So scripture is needed for me at least, to understand this? I read on & find that Jesus replied: "It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." v. 7 ibid. Now comes my question: Lord, where does it say that???

Well, our Master told us in the previous verse that we are to live "by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" And it was a fact that He did not have the New T. in print yet. So in Deut. 6:16 we see where He [ran] to! "Ye shall not tempt the Lord your God, .."

So my remarks were meant in kindness, not criticism. And I doubt any took it that way? In Rev. 18:4 we see that God has [His people] in her, (women is a church or fold) she is a 'false fold' it appears. She is [sinful] it states,
And if this is [me] & 'i' remain there, the Word states that i am a [partaker of her sins] and that to remain in her will require me to 'receive of her plagues]." This sounds fatal to me?

So if am in need of correction, again, 2 Tim. 3:16, for me at least, i need scripture for this? So, again: The missive is what i was questioning, not the writers character.

Originally posted by e4God
OK. I see some of this.... But...

The Jews were God's chosen. His people... His Children. When we Gentiles become God's Children by faith in Christ, aren't we grafted in to the Tree of Life, and thus made heir to the promises made to Abraham? If so, why aren't we heir to the same laws? 

I gather that the answer is yes, and that salvation is freely offered to both Jew and Gentile... 

So... Wouldn't the end times prophecies apply to us in the same way as to the Jews?

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Hi again,
Try testing your spiritual IQ with Eccl. 1:9-10? And then re/check that God has made [no] mistake by reading Eccl. 3:15 while you are still there! Now apply it to your [correct] assumption. It agrees with these verses! (dual histories at least) And an ETERNAL EVERLASTING LAW COVENANT for all of us Christians! (agreement, contract, pledge, between two people is the Everlasting Covenant) See Heb. 13:20-2 Cor. 3:3. Same Law, but with a new location!

(if there is NO second history to be repeated, God has stated that also! The rainbow in the sky, for one. And Na. 1:9's verse: "sin will not arise a SECOND time." for just a couple of the few)

One more text in agreement with your remark, is: Rom. 2:28-29.
"For he [is not a Jew, who is one outwardly]; (nationality) neither is that circumcision, which [is outward in the flesh]. But [he is a Jew], which is [ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISM IS OF THE HEART], in the spirit, and [not in the letter]; ..."

We need to read the whole chapters teaching, especially verse 24-26!
For it complements 2 Peter 2:19-22. "For they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption.." LIBERTY from what???

Some call the ten commandment tables of God, His 'Universal Royal Law', Jewish!
Yet we see here, that Paul was 'inspired' to pen, that if anyone is saved, he will be 'A SPIRITUAL JEW'

Just read revelation. Tells all about the evangelists, the plagues, the horses, the seals, Jesus's 1000 year reign, and a few books before it. Its got evrything Ive put down. All I posted comes straight from scripture.

What do the first few verses say Warrior (that is of Revelation)...Exodus talks about plagues, years, horses etc...but we find it obvious that God is talking about the past... When does God(using John's pen) say the things of the Book of Revelation were to happen? The answer is in the first chapter....

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.

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Hi,
here are a couple thoughts that are faith builders for me.

Matt. 24 is all about 'end times'. Verse 14 tell us a factual Truth. And Christ says that this generation shall not pass until all things be fulfilled!


Pastor N.B.

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I agree 100%.
ALL of Matt 24 is about the End times. Including verse 1 & 2.

"1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Since we know this prophesy came to pass before the generation to whom Jesus was speaking passed, and we agree that all of Matt 24 is about the "end times", we can be confident that our Savior accomplished exactly what He said He would, exactly when He said he would do it, and we are now living "beyond the end times".

Originally posted by jenlu
What do the first few verses say Warrior (that is of Revelation)...Exodus talks about plagues, years, horses etc...but we find it obvious that God is talking about the past... When does God(using John's pen) say the things of the Book of Revelation were to happen? The answer is in the first chapter....

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Hi Jenlu, Good question.

John in Revelation affirms that the "Day of the Lord" had in fact already arrived and it's subsequent judgements were in fact underway at the time he was writing the Book. He goes on to infallibly claim that they would all come to pass "shortly" (in human time) after the book was written.

I believe He was right.

Originally posted by Warrior4Jah
Just read revelation. Tells all about the evangelists, the plagues, the horses, the seals, Jesus's 1000 year reign, and a few books before it. Its got evrything Ive put down. All I posted comes straight from scripture.

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Really?
Even this?:

After the Antichrist has risen and signed the treaty with the Nation of Israel, this will signal the seven year Tribulation

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Where in Revelation, or any Book of the Bible, new testament or old, does it say "The Antichrist will sign a treaty with Israel", or anything that says "7 Year tribulation?"

I can't find those statements anywhere in scripture.

Originally posted by e4God
OK... Not convinced... but greatly appreciate the attention to detail being posted in this discussion and the call to really read what is there, instead of swallow camels whole... 


Do you mean this day of the Lord?



Which Day was that and why am I still here (honest question) ?

The whole chapter makes good reading, bTW  

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Go back to post #11 on this thread.

The final consummation of God's new creation is something beyond any human ability to describe with mere words, even when the human is writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. By using such apocalyptic imagery, Peter is not being hyperbolic. He is making an understatement. It's like the references to Hell as a "fiery lake of burning sulfur" That's the worst form of torment which human language can describe. But, rest assured, Hell is a whole lot hotter than mere sulfur.

Likewise, the in-breaking of God's kingdom is far more disruptive than can be described by words. Yet, it is ushered in through the most mundane and seemingly insignificant acts: feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, turning the other cheek, blessing those who curse you. Lest we forget, in the milieu of apocalyptic language about the kingdom of God, Jesus compared it to a mustard seed, a treasure hidden in a field, a pearl of great value. He also said that the kingdom was not coming with signs to be observed, but was, in fact, "within you."

A little balance is necessary in coming to a holistic understanding of God's unfolding plan for the redemption (as opposed to destruction) of his creation.

Originally posted by e4God
James:

Do you view the flood as only a metaphor also?

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(added highlights & from the K.J.)

Also James:
(regardless of which below verse we choose. One is seen in Matt. 25 'ing)
How do [you] view.. "We are of God: he that knoweth God, heareth us; he that is not of God, heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, [and the spirit of error.]" 1 Jn. 4:6?? VERY CLEAR & SIMPLE.

Then we see: "For as ye [have drunk] upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, [yea], they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they [shall be as though they ( ??) HAD NOT BEEN]." (try both Obadiah 15-16.)

And as Eze. 18:23-24 declares that there is an [end] to the [created soul]!
Verses 20 & 4

Also in closing, I wonder how we Pastors are holding up as 'watchman'?
Well, 'i' see that i am not doing very well, because i [know] the answer as stated in Eze. 3:17-21! Verse 18's last part tells us; ".. nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to [save his life]; the same wicked man shall [die] in his iniquity; [but his blood WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND]." (and)

Verse 21: "Nevertheless [IF] thou warn the [rightous] man, that the rightous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, [because he is warned]; also [THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL]."
Surely most of 'us' are looking for another translation, huh??

Watchman? Warning? Seems clear & 'simple' for [me]! Not to even mention Eze. 9?
Hopefully, in the Master's quickly finished work,
Pastor N.B.

Originally posted by e4God
James:

Do you view the flood as only a metaphor also?

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No. The flood cleansed the earth of its outer corruption, but not its inward corruption. Peter's use of the "water" and "fire" imagery echoes that of John the Baptist, "I baptize you with water, but he [Christ] will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." John actually used water to baptize, but it was only an outward cleansing. The baptism Jesus would bring was to be an inward purging not only of the effects of sin, but of the root cause of sin.

What John speaks of on an individual level, Peter speaks of on a cosmic level. As the flood was a cleansing of the earth's outward (visible) filth, so the final destiny of creation is the purging of the root cause of its fallenness. Paul says that creation will be "set free from its bondage to decay." This means that, ultimately, creation will be redeemed, not destroyed. If God intended to destroy his creation, he would not have sent Christ to redeem it. But, as it now stands, the created order awaits its full redemption because Christ, in rising from the dead, has trampled down the forces of wickedness which have held it in bondage. As Christ was raised from the dead, so shall all who belong to him be raised with him and so, too, shall all of creation at last reflect the glory it had in the beginning. All that is contrary to God's purposes (eg. wickedness in all its forms) will be "burned up" in the "lake of fire."

Knowing these things, as Peter reminds us, we ought, therefore, to live "lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming day of God." In other words, by living the kind of life that reflects the character and purposes of God, we are already ushering in the kingdom of God, making the "new heavens and a new earth" a reality in our midst.

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.


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(added highlights & from the K.J.)

Also James:
(regardless of which below verse we choose. One is seen in Matt. 25 'ing)
How do [you] view.. "We are of God: he that knoweth God, heareth us; he that is not of God, heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, [and the spirit of error.]" 1 Jn. 4:6?? VERY CLEAR & SIMPLE.

Then we see: "For as ye [have drunk] upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, [yea], they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they [shall be as though they ( ??) HAD NOT BEEN]." (try both Obadiah 15-16.)

And as Eze. 18:23-24 declares that there is an [end] to the [created soul]!
Verses 20 & 4

Also in closing, I wonder how we Pastors are holding up as 'watchman'?
Well, 'i' see that i am not doing very well, because i [know] the answer as stated in Eze. 3:17-21! Verse 18's last part tells us; ".. nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to [save his life]; the same wicked man shall [die] in his iniquity; [but his blood WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND]." (and)

Verse 21: "Nevertheless [IF] thou warn the [rightous] man, that the rightous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, [because he is warned]; also [THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL]."
Surely most of 'us' are looking for another translation, huh??

Watchman? Warning? Seems clear & 'simple' for [me]! Not to even mention Eze. 9?
Hopefully, in the Master's quickly finished work,
Pastor N.B.

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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. "Readiness" and "watchfulness" are what living for the kingdom of God is all about, and if you'll look closely at the Scriptures, you'll find that the most appropriate state of "readiness" and "watchfulness" is a constant posture of worship, offering yourself up to God every moment of every hour of every day. Are you encouraging your flock to do this?

Originally posted by e4God
Where does this leave John 3:16?
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Pastor N.B. here: (some emphasis added)

"For God so loved the world, that He gave his only Son, that [whosoever believeth 'IN' Him] [SHOULD] not perish, but have everlasting life."
CONDITIONAL. Heb. 13:20! (ETERNAL EVERLASTING COVENANT, Royal Law, Pledge, Contract, Binder, two party submission! As seen in Saul the killer to Paul the Saint, Acts 8:1-3 to Acts 9:*6! TOTAL SURRENDER.)

Rom. 8:1 "There is therefore now [no condemnation] to them which are [*in Christ Jesus], who [walk not after the flesh, but *after the Spirit]."

Rom. 8:14 uses the Word.. 'LED by the SPIRIT OF GOD' (not decreed)
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How will we have everlasting life if we are to be as though we had not been, and our soul ceases to exist?

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Pastor N.B. here again: (see your above question)
The ones that will have everlasting life will use the Eternal Covenant conditional provisions, which [are] the 'Everlasting Gospel' of Rev. 14:6.

These PROVISIONS are: (after being Born Again-see Jn. 3:1-10 & 2 Cor. 3:3)

"['i' can] do all things [Through CHRIST THAT STRENGTHENETH me.]" Phil. 4:13
And:
"MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR THEE: FOR MY STRENGTH IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS." again Read Nahum 1:9. And even then our everlasting (immortal) life will be subject to Rev. 22:1-2's
diet! (The Tree of Life)

And what would happen if the wicked were to eat of this Tree of Life? Try Gen.3:22. "And the Lord said, Behold man is become as one of us,
to know good and evil: and now, LEAST HE PUT FORTH HIS HAND, AND TAKE 'ALSO' OF THE TREE OF LIFE, AND EAT, [AND LIVE FOREVER:] ..."
Read the next two verses!

And just another thought here. Do you suppose that if lost sinners were eternally burning in hell, that God would let them out of hell every once in a while to partake of the tree of life? (i suspect that hell will be filled with ministers)

And these others that you mention? 2 Peter 2:20-22 says that: "For it had [been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of RIGHTOUSNESS.." Yet, the DECISION was their's. None need to be lost!!

Eternal life is up to us, to follow as the Master leads, with His eternal PROVISIONS for our weaknesses SUPPLIED! See Matt. 4:4.
Pastor N.B.