Is Jesus enough?

eoe said:

and here:

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Err...suffice it to say that I took what Theophorus said wrong. It turned out to be very confusing to me in the end.
Sorry Theophorus...

I backed up and regrouped and then graciously answered your post. Will you show the same grace and reply? Please

BarbB said:

Can you copy and post the siggie, Tonks. I (and many others) have them turned off.

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Certainly:

nephilimiyr said:

Our conscience is our soul. Our soul wasn't reborn at conversion. What was reborn was our spirit. Andrew Wommack is saying that it's our minds, our thoughts that condemn us. He is saying we condemn ourselves because we don't realize that we are already made righteous in the spirit. Satan knows many people will not understand this so he goes on the attack.

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That is not what the scriptures bear out. Our conscience is a gift from God. It is not to be ignored or attributed only to satan's manipulations.

The mind manifests what is in the heart. It is often neccessary to break through the mind/nous to heal the heart, not the other way around. (Your heart is healed, now heal your mind)


1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

2Cr 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

Err...suffice it to say that I took what Theophorus said wrong. It turned out to be very confusing to me in the end.

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Ah. It looked like you took the comment as being made by Theophoros and you attacked it but then when you found out that it was actually from the article you backpeddaled and agreed with it. But that is just from outside looking in.

It confused the heck out of me.

I suppose what this all boils down to is that the article is either claiming that we should not feel anything at all when we sin OR that a believer can not sin at all. Either way it is error.

We still sin. There is no question about that. So if we do still sin are we not to be contrite about it? Are we to be unaware of it?

christianmomof3 said:

Ok, perhaps I misunderstood his article. It looks like he is saying that once we are saved we don't need to confess when we sin. I don't agree with that.

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Yup..... I saw the same thing as you did.

Unconfessed sins break our fellowship with the Lord and we do not enjoy His presence. When we confess, our fellowship is renewed and we can again contact and enjoy Him.

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He (web page) was using the payment for our sins as a basis to stop being conscious of when we sin.
Sin takes a new place in our lives after we are saved.

Before we were saved we were alienated from God because we were sin factories. That's all we could do in our unregenerate state. Now? We have the power of the Holy Spirit in us to cause us to be able not to sin if we choose God's will over all others.

I don't think that counts for sins we are unaware of, but if we are aware of a sin and it bothers our conscience, then we should confess.
1 Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

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Actually, 1 John 1:9, does cover our sins of ignorance.

We are required to name/acknowledge our sins that we see. Its usually the ones that we do not see that get us out of fellowship in the first place! Because unknown sin breaks us off from fellowship with the Spirit, our walk defaults over to the flesh. After that happens? Its only a matter of time before we commit a sin we can recognize. If we name that sin?


We are only required of us what we know. God cleanses us of all the sins of ignorance, as long as we confess what we do know!


Its not as if our sins were not paid for on the Cross (web page's thinking). Its that the Holy Spirit can not become one with a believer's sin. The Spirit must break off from direct contact with identifying with us in our sin.

It has become a different issue than having sins not paid for. The Spirit simply can not be baptized into our sins which were paid for. Its the action of our sin he can not be one with, even though the sin was paid for!

What happens when we confess our sins to God?

Confessing our sins is a process of learning to see sin as God sees sin. When we confess our sins? We are agreeing with God on what is sin. If we agree? We commence walking together once more in agreement!

We do not now confess our sins for a forgiveness that is a legality issue, as was paid for on the Cross. Our sins are paid for! Its now a process to get us to better know the mind of God. The forgiveness we now receive is a 'family matter,' rather than a legalistic judicial one. That issue was dealt with as our sins were poured on Christ.

Its become more like a matter of forgetting to turn off a light after leaving the room and being chided by a loving parent.

Naming our sins is a family matter. The other (the Cross) legalized demands of law. Jesus paid for the penalty demanded by law. Yet, we must be obedient to God's will to please him after our sins were paid for.

Confessing our sins is a process of getting to see reality as God sees it when it comes to the concern of yet being sinners saved by grace.

People who continue to violate the divine law following their conversion are the children of the devil and God shall operate his wrath upon them in a manner intended to ruin and destroy them:

1 John 1:6-7, 2:4, 3:6-10, 5:18 (New International Version)
If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. He who does what is sinful is of the devil. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God Anyone born of God does not continue to sin.

Hebrews 10:26-27 (New International Version)
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

revduane said:

Please read this, it will help your walk with God.
I highly recomend his website.
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/jesus_enough

He is a better teacher than I am. So please again read this, it will help you.

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A very protestant point of view about sins.

And the Holy Spirit? Useless?
His only task is to confirm yourself that you own Bible interpretation is right?

Only who bases the faith on the Bible is happy, and all the others are " unhappy, depressed, fearful, and full of unbelief" ?
My relation with God "is profiting me little or at the very least less than God intended" bc Im catholic and I base my faith on the footprints of the fathers?

If you start your article spreading free judgments on other people christian live, you could be a great theologians (not in this article), but for sure you miss charity.

Came on...

nephilimiyr said:

Our conscience is not our spirit, our conscience is our soul. When we were born again God renewed our spirit, God did not renew our soul.

Our conscience is still unrighteous, still sinful. Yet our spirit has been recreated into righteousness, our spirit cannot sin because our spirit is now connected with God, married to, branched into, God.

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Then how is it our concsience is Good if it is still unrighteous, still sinful?
"GOOD":
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/1/1150222950-2429.html

This does not describe something sinful, unrighteous.

Thiere is this tendency to present a false dichotomy between the spirit and soul, as if one part is born again and the other isn't. This isn't true.

What is the issue when it comes to our concience is its FORMATION.

We can have a well formed concience, a properly formed conscience, of a poorly formed conscience in varying degrees.

As we grow in Christ, if we are taught properly, the formation of our conscience is brought more and more into line with the truth. The early this begins, the easire it is to form a proper conscience from the beginning. It is much easier to properly form a conscience early on than it is to try to change one badly formed. But everything is possible with God.




Peace

Quick said:

People who continue to violate the divine law following their conversion are the children of the devil and God shall operate his wrath upon them in a manner intended to ruin and destroy them:

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Are you saying that true Christians are sinless? That true Chirstians never sin again after their conversion?

Are you saying that if Christians sin again after their conversion, they are not true Christians, but actualy children of the devil?




Peace

Theophorus said:

That is not what the scriptures bear out. Our conscience is a gift from God. It is not to be ignored or attributed only to satan's manipulations.

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I didn't quite say that our conscience was to be ignored or that it can only be attributed to Satan's manipulations.

We are actually, in a way, a trinity in that we are made up of body , soul, and spirit. Our soul, our consciencous mind takes in all kind of influences, both spiritual and non-spiritual. But our soul does not define us of who we are. As Christians, Gods word perfectly reflects who we are in the spirit. In the tangible world our soul and body is what reflects who we are in this world. The difference is what we can see, taste, feel, smell, hear. This carnal knowledge and sense. Our soul reacts only to carnal things while our spirit only reacts to spiritual things.

The mind manifests what is in the heart.

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What is the heart? Tell me what is the difference between the mind and the heart. You odviously see a difference.

It is often neccessary to break through the mind/nous to heal the heart, not the other way around. (Your heart is healed, now heal your mind)

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Again, tell me what the heart is and what the difference there is between the heart and the mind.

1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

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You bet! The soul is heavily effected by and influenced by lies in hypocrisy.

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

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NIV, Holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.
It's always best to quote a whole sentence and not just a verse...sometimes verses cut short sentences, why I don't know but it lends to our confusion wouldn't you say?

1 Timothy 1:18, Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophesies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.
In context I see Paul referenceing and speaking to Timothy's state of mind, not his spirit.
I really don't know why you brought this verse forward if you meant to argue what I'm saying.

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,

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Hmmmm, looks like Paul is making a distiction between heart and conscience, again, can you tell me the difference?

2Cr 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

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This shows me that Paul is speaking about our minds, our thoughts, out beliefs, our convictions; that is what the soul is...but that is not what the spirit is.

thereselittleflower said:

Then how is it our concsience is Good if it is still unrighteous, still sinful?

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Good does not equal God's righteousness and Paul is the one speaking, not God. God isn't telling Timothy that his soul has been made righteoous. Paul is telling Timothy to keep everything that he has learned and everything that he has believed and not to stray from it.

1Tim 1:19

Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:






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Lexicon Results for agathos (Strong's 18)Greek for 18

agathos {ag-ath-os'}
TDNT ReferenceRoot WordTDNT - 1:10,3a primary wordPart of SpeechadjOutline of Biblical Usage
1) of good constitution or nature
2) useful, salutary
3) good, pleasant, agreeable, joyful, happy 4) excellent, distinguished 5) upright, honourable






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http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/1/1150222950-2429.html

This does not describe something sinful, unrighteous.

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Hey TLF, if you are confused by something I have said then please ask me for clarification!

Here is your clarification that you did not ask for but should have...

Our souls and bodies still have the sinful nature. Until the resurrection we will not be made perfect and until we are made perfect in both body, soul, and spirit together, our soul and body will have this sinful nature to them. As for our spirit, our spirit has been made righteous by the blood of Christ.

I'm sorry that I did not make myself clear enough the first time.

Hi Duane.

I would say your friend has missed the mark on several issues.


For instance, this commentIs quite off the mark.

Of course sin is an issue with God. That is why Jesus came.

To say even that sin in the life of the believer isn't an issue with God is false. It most definitely IS an issue, which is why we are told by Jesus "Be ye perfect even as My Father in heaven is perfect."

Quite a tall order, yet one commanded by Christ Hismelf.

Sin in our lives is less than the perfection Jesus commanded. So sin in our lives is obviously an issue with God.

The teaching he expounds on is very dangerous. For it is this teaching from which many derive an understanding that it really doesn't matter what they do, it is already forgiven, and so they turn off their conscience instead of listening to it.


When we sin, we are to REPENT and CONFESS our sins.

If we don't repent, there is no forgiveness of sins.


The scriptures clearly tell us that IF we CONFESS our sins, then God is faithful and just to FORGIVE us our sins.Notice the operative word "IF"

It is a CONDITIONAL word, it starts a CONDITIONAL phrase.


IF we CONFESS then God will FORGIVE.

God's forgiveness is CONDITIONAL - it is CONDITIONED ON our CONFESSION.

We are not automatically forgiven every sin we will ever commit in our lives at the momment of our conversion. If that were true, then John's words above are false and frivolous.

If we are automatically forgiven all our sins at converison, including all sins we will ever commit, then we are saying we have no sin.


John tells us very clearly that Yet, that is what your friend seems to be saying Duane.



John was speaking to believers, those who had already experienced converison.

John makes it EXTREMELY CLEAR that if we sin AFTER converison, then we must CONFESS our sins if we desire to be FORGIVEN those sins.


This is contrary to what your friend states in this article.

This is just one issue.




Peace

nephilimiyr said:

Good does not equal God's righteousness and Paul is the one speaking, not God. God isn't telling Timothy that his soul has been made righteoous. Paul is telling Timothy to keep everything that he has learned and everything that he has believed and not to stray from it.

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As far as your comments above, Are you saying that God was not speaking through Paul to Timothy?

I thought it was your position that scripture is God speaking infallilby to us through the writers?

Have I misunderstood your position on this?

If not, then the argument above is pointless, isn't it?

It is God ultimately speaking, so to say that it was Paul, not God, is superfluous and clounds the issue it seems to me.

The definition of "GOOD" in "good conscience" includess UPRIGHT.

The conscience cannot be upright and unrighteous at the same time.

That is my point.

Haveing a good conscience is like have a good state of mind. We know our conscience because our conscience is appart of our mind. Our spirit we don't know. We only can know our spirit by reading the word of God.

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I don't see that opinion supported by the text neph. This is your opinoin, your interpretation, but this is not what the text says.

I disagree with your assumptions and conclusions about the spirit and the mind.

Notice none of these definitions says that good equal righteousness and or God's righteousness?

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Again, look at the definitions. . .

UPRIGHT

One cannot be unrighteous and be upright at the same time.

And obviously Paul is speaking about a good conscience before God, for he goes on to say that by rejecting it, by putting it away, some have made shipwreck of their faith.


Peter speaks of a good conscience before God as well:It's the same Greek word here as used by John . .. and it is towards God.

Hey TLF, if you are confused by something I have said then please ask me for clarification!

Here is your clarification that you did not ask for but should have...

Our souls and bodies still have the sinful nature. Until the resurrection we will not be made perfect and until we are made perfect in both body, soul, and spirit together, our soul and body will have this sinful nature to them. As for our spirit, our spirit has been made righteous by the blood of Christ.

I'm sorry that I did not make myself clear enough the first time.

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I appreciate you taking the time to provide the clarification, but it really wasn't necessary. I am well aquainted with this manner of thinking regarding the spirit soul and body as I used to hold it myself. I just don't agree with it any more. I did understand what you were saying though.


Peace

Thank you GeneZ - that helps to clarify things.
As for the parts of man, there is some confusion on this thread:

Our conscience is our soul. Our soul wasn't reborn at conversion. What was reborn was our spirit.

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The conscience is not the soul. Here is a quoted portion of a book called The Economy of God by Witness Lee that shows the parts of man very clearly:
THE THREE PARTS OF MAN—SPIRIT, SOUL, BODY

Some passages to which we will refer are very familiar. First Thessalonians 5:23 is a verse indicating that we are tripartite, or, of three parts: the spirit, the soul, and the body. We can illustrate this by three concentric circles:
Hebrews 4:12 also mentions the spirit and the soul, and the dividing of these two parts. If we would know Christ and enter into Him as the good land and as the rest, we must discern the spirit from the soul. The spirit is the very place where Christ dwells in us; so if we would know Christ in an experiential way, we must discern our human spirit from our soul. This verse mentions the difference not only between the spirit and the soul, but also between the joints and the marrow of the body and between the thoughts and the intents of the heart. The living Word of God is a discerner of all these things. This proves that if we are going to know the Lord in a practical and real way, we must discern all these parts. What are the thoughts of the heart and the intents of the heart? And how many parts are in the heart?
In Luke 1:46-47, the soul and the spirit are again distinguished.
Philippians 1:27 says that we must be of one spirit—not the Holy Spirit, but the human spirit—and of one soul. (In the King James Version “one soul” is rendered “one mind.”) Again, this verse shows that there is a difference between the spirit and the soul.
Finally, Mark 12:30 says, “And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength.” Here are four different parts: the heart, the soul, the mind, and the strength. If we put all these verses together we will realize that there are quite a number of different parts within us besides the many parts of the body.
First Thessalonians 5:23 indicates that we are spirit, soul and body, and Psalm 51 reveals the inward parts with the hidden part. The inward parts are the parts of the soul, which is proved by comparing Hebrews 8:10 with Jeremiah 31:33, where “the mind” is quoted as a variation of “the inward parts.” Just as the inward parts must be the parts of the soul, so the hidden part must be the spirit. Of all our parts, the spirit is the most hidden one within us. This inmost part is not only hidden within the body, but is even hidden within the soul. Hence, there are the outward parts of the body, the inward parts of the soul, and the hidden part of the spirit.
THE THREE PARTS OF THE SOUL—
MIND, WILL, EMOTION

There are three parts to the soul and three parts to the spirit. We must discover what are the three parts of both the soul and the spirit. Furthermore, we must also define the heart. First Thessalonians 5:23 indicates that we are a tripartite being—spirit, soul, and body—but it does not mention the heart. What is the heart and how can we relate it with the inward parts and the hidden part?
God’s Word proves clearly and definitely that the soul is of three parts—the mind, the will, and the emotion. The shaded area in the diagram below illustrates the parts of the soul.
Proverbs 2:10 suggests that the soul needs knowledge. Note also Proverbs 19:2 and 24:14. Since knowledge is a function of the mind, this proves that the mind is a part of the soul. All three of these verses from Proverbs tell us that we need to have knowledge in the soul. Then Psalm 139:14 says the soul knows. To know is something of the mind, which again proves that the mind is a part of the soul. Psalm 13:2 says the soul considers, or counsels, which refers to the mind. Lamentations 3:20 indicates that remembrance is of the soul. That is, the soul can remember things. From these verses we can see that there is a part in the soul that knows, considers, and remembers. This part is called the mind.
The second part of the soul is the will. Job 7:15 says the soul chooses. To choose something is a decision made by the act of the will. This proves that the will must be a part of the soul. Job 6:7 says the soul refuses. To choose and refuse are both functions of the will. First Chronicles 22:19 says, “set your soul to seek.” Just as we set our minds to think, so we set our souls to seek. This is, of course, the soul making a decision, which proves that the will must be a part of the soul. Then in Numbers 30, “bind his soul” is mentioned ten times. When we read this chapter, we understand that to bind the soul is to make a decision. It deals with a vow that is made with the Lord. To make a decision to bind the soul is to make a vow to the Lord. Thus, it is proven that the will must be a part of the soul. Psalm 27:12, 41:2, and Ezekiel 16:27 translate the Hebrew word “soul” into “will.” The prayer made by the Psalmist is, “Do not deliver me to the will of the enemy.” In the original it means, “Do not deliver me to the soul of the enemy.” This proves clearly that the will must be a part of the soul.
The emotion is the third part of the soul. With the emotion there are many aspects: for example, love, hatred, joy, grief, etc. All of these are expressions of the emotion. References to love are found in 1 Samuel 18:1, Song of Solomon 1:7, and Psalm 42:1. These verses show that love is something in the soul, proving, therefore, that within the soul there is such an organ or function as the emotion. Concerning hatred, note 2 Samuel 5:8, Psalm 107:18, and Ezekiel 36:5. These passages indicate that hatred is something of the soul. Since hatred is an expression of the emotion, these verses also prove that the emotion must be a part of the soul. Ezekiel 36:5 is better translated in the American Standard Version, where the term “despite of soul” is used. It means the dislike or hatred of the soul. Joy, an element of the emotion, is also a part of the soul, as seen in Isaiah 61:10 and Psalm 86:4, again proving that emotion is a part of the soul. Then there is the matter of grief, mentioned in 1 Samuel 30:6 and Judges 10:16. Grief is another expression of the soul. Another aspect is desire: 1 Samuel 20:4, Deuteronomy 14:26, Ezekiel 24:25, and Jeremiah 44:14. As to Ezekiel 24:25 and Jeremiah 44:14, the right meaning is reached when the American Standard Version is checked with the Young’s or Strong’s Concordance. Desire, an element of the emotion, is shown by these verses to be in the realm of the soul.
These verses establish the ground to verify the three parts in the soul: the mind, the will, and the emotion. In the Scriptures it is difficult to find any additional parts of the soul, for these three parts cover all the functions of the soul. The mind is the leading part, followed by the will and the emotion. These are the verses which best reveal what are the three parts of the soul.

THE THREE PARTS OF THE SPIRIT—CONSCIENCE,
FELLOWSHIP, INTUITION

It is interesting to note that there are three Persons of the Godhead, three parts of man’s being, three inward parts of the soul, and also three parts to the spirit. All are in three parts. The Scriptures also reveal three parts in the tabernacle, the building of God. Three is the basic figure or number. Even in Noah’s ark there are three levels. With the tabernacle the number three is used many times. For example, the width of one board is one and a half cubits. When two boards are joined as a pair, the total width is three cubits. This means that the number three is a whole unit.
Therefore, the spirit is a complete unit, composed of three parts or functions: conscience, fellowship, and intuition. The shaded area in the diagram below illustrates the parts of the spirit.
It is easy to understand the conscience. We are all familiar with this. To perceive right from wrong is one function of the conscience. To condemn or to justify is another one of its functions. It is also easy to comprehend the fellowship. The fellowship is our communion with God. Within our spirit, such a function makes it possible to contact God. In a simple word, fellowship is to touch God. But it is not very easy to understand the intuition. Intuition means to have a direct sense or knowledge. There is such a direct sense in our spirit, regardless of reason, circumstances, or background. It is a sense without reason, a sense that is not “reasonable.” It is a direct sense of God and a direct knowledge from God. This function is what we call the intuition of the spirit. Thus, the spirit is known by the functions of the conscience, the fellowship, and the intuition.
But these three parts in the human spirit must be proven from the Scriptures. First of all, the conscience is found in Romans 9:1, “My conscience bearing witness with me in the Holy Spirit.” Comparing Romans 9:1 with Romans 8:16, the conscience is located in the human spirit. On one hand, the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit. On the other hand, our conscience bears witness with the Holy Spirit. This proves that the conscience must be a function of our spirit. In 1 Corinthians 5:3, the Apostle Paul says that in his spirit he judged a sinful person. To judge means either to condemn or to justify, which are acts of the conscience. But the Apostle says, in my spirit I judge. This confirms that the condemning or justifying function is in the spirit; hence, the conscience is in the spirit. Psalm 51:10 speaks of “a right spirit within me”—that is, a spirit which is right. Knowing right from wrong is related to the conscience, so this verse also proves that the conscience is in the spirit. Psalm 34:18 refers to “a contrite spirit.” To be contrite means we realize we are wrong. In other words, we accuse and condemn ourselves, which is a function of the conscience. “A contrite spirit” shows that the conscience is related to the spirit. Deuteronomy 2:30 says, “hardened his spirit,” which means that the conscience was hardened. To be hardened in the spirit means to be careless with the conscience. When we cast off the feeling in the conscience, we become hardened in the spirit. These verses offer the strongest ground for the fact that the function of the conscience is in the human spirit.
Let us go on to find the Scriptural ground for the fellowship. First of all, John 4:24 tells us that we must worship God in our spirit. To worship God requires worship in our spirit. To worship God is to contact God and fellowship with God. This verse proves that the function of worship or of fellowship is in our spirit. In Romans 1:9 the Apostle Paul says, “I serve God with my spirit.” To serve God is also a type of fellowship with God. So this also proves that the organ for fellowship is in our spirit. Romans 7:6 must be added: “we serve in newness of the spirit.” In other words, service is essentially fellowship with the Lord in our spirit.
Let us consider Ephesians 6:18. The Greek interlinear text translates this verse as, “praying always in spirit &” There is no article before “spirit,” neither is it capitalized. It does not mean the Holy Spirit, but our human spirit. To pray means to fellowship with God. To pray in spirit indicates, then, that fellowship with God is a matter in our spirit. Luke 1:47 says, “My spirit hath rejoiced in God.” This means that the human spirit has contacted God. Once again, fellowship with God is a function in the spirit. Then, Romans 8:16: “the Spirit bears witness with our spirit.” This verse is very clear, because it shows that fellowship with God must be both in our spirit and in the Spirit of God. First Corinthians 6:17: “He that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.” Real fellowship means that we become one spirit with the Lord. This fellowship is in the spirit. All of these verses are sufficient to prove that the function of fellowship is in our human spirit.
How about the intuition? Although it is difficult to find the Scriptural ground for this function, there are some verses. First Corinthians 2:11 reveals that the spirit of man can know what the soul cannot. Our spirit can discern that which the soul cannot discern. This proves that something extra is in our spirit. Our soul can know things by reason and by circumstantial experiences, but the human spirit can discern things without these. This direct sense shows that the intuition is in our spirit. Then there is Mark 2:8, which says, “perceiving in his spirit.” Mark 8:12 says, “sighed deeply in his spirit.” John 11:33: “groaned in the spirit.” To perceive, to sigh, and to groan in our spirit come from a direct sense of discernment which is not dependent upon reason. This we call the intuition, the third function of our spirit.
Now we have the Scriptural ground for these six parts: the three parts of the soul and the three parts of the spirit.

The rest of the book can be found at http://www.ministrybooks.org/alphabetical.cfm
The book is The Economy of God and this part is from chapter 6. It also goes on to explain that the heart as defined in the Bible consists of the soul plus the conscience.

thereselittleflower said:

As far as your comments above, Are you saying that God was not speaking through Paul to Timothy?

I thought it was your position that scripture is God speaking infallilby to us through the writers?

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How on earth would you know what my position is on that when I never told you? perhaps you know me better than what I thought...yet your implication is wrong.

I do believe the authors of the books of the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit. I also believe that Paul, more than anyone recieved divine revelation to instruct us in our Christian walk.

Paul's letter to Timothy is a personal letter and that has to be taken into account.

Have I misunderstood your position on this?

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Yes, Paul did recieve revelation to tell Timothy to hold onto the faith, to not forget the prophecies that were said about him. God may have revealed to paul that he had to remind Timothy of this but all in all Paul is still talking about Timothy's conscience, not his spirit.

John 3:6, That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit What is being said here by Jesus is that there is no direct connection between the two, they are interrelated. We simply cannot contact our spirit through our emotions, our conscience, or by our body.

Spiritual reality can't be felt nor can it be discerned through our natural senses.
Ephesians 1:18, I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance ib the saints
I asked Theophorus this but he has decided to not answer me or is off line now but what do you say is the difference between the heart and the mind? I say the Bible shows that it is the spirit and the soul.

Our spirit is enlightened when we recieve Christ's faith in us but our soul, our mind is enlightened when we recieve facts we can hold on to and think about. Our mind, our soul is carnal, our spirit is not.

The definition of "GOOD" in "good conscience" includess UPRIGHT.

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"upright" does not mean God's righteousness
Try again...

The conscience cannot be upright and unrighteous at the same time.

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Well then I guess you are going to have to prove to me that upright means God's righteousness. It's ok, I got all day!

I don't see that opinion supported by the text neph. This is your opinoin, your interpretation, but this is not what the text says.

I disagree with your assumptions and conclusions about the spirit and the mind.

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LOL, well, this is what discussions are made for!

I think the Bible bares out that our spirit is our innermost part, it's our life. Our soul is our mental, emotional part. The body is our physical shell.

Again, look at the definitions. . .

UPRIGHT

One cannot be unrighteous and be upright at the same time.

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Why not?

And obviously Paul is speaking about a good conscience before God, for he goes on to say that by rejecting it, by putting it away, some have made shipwreck of their faith.

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No not odviously, like I said, the Bible bares out that the soul and spirit are different. Spirit is our life. We can't see, feel, hear, taste, or otherwise experience anything of our spirit. Our soul is our mind and emotion. our thoughts and emotions we can experience, they do effect our body as well in very physical ways.

Either way, you saying that upright means God's righteousness is just you saying that. Biblically, God's righteousness means lots more than being upright. Upright to me means good...that's prolly why the translators translated it as good instead of righteousness, don't you think?

's the same Greek word here as used by John . .. and it is towards God.

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Anything that is good can be towards God.

I appreciate you taking the time to provide the clarification, but it really wasn't necessary. I am well aquainted with this manner of thinking regarding the spirit soul and body as I used to hold it myself. I just don't agree with it any more. I did understand what you were saying though.

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I know what you're saying also and just don't agree with it either.

I have no problem agreeing to disagree with you.


Peace

Tonks said:

Certainly:

The answer to the happiness that you seek is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, hidden in the Eucharist. H.H. BXVI​

BXVI stated this at last year's World Youth Day. It is a reference, I believe (as was pointed out to me by Carrye) to the writings of the Venerable Pierre-Julien Eymard:​

Jesus Christ is hidden in the Eucharist, you can come near to Him and hear His divine promise. Otherwise, one word from Him would make the world tremble with terror, as on Mount Sinai. One word of love would inflame and consume us, one word of menace annihilate us​

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Thank you - I do appreciate it!

I do like what I've highlighted, though I believe that Jesus is not hidden. The rest is awesome - about the world trembling and his love inflaming and consuming us!

revduane said:

Hey Neph. Good to see you as always.


You put the smack down on it baby. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin. The Bible never say's makes you guilty. It was never the Holy Spirit that made us guilty, or God for that matter in the first place. It was Adam. It was Adam. If Adam made us guilty, or condemned already, then the Blood of Jesus makes us righteous, before God. Adams sin made us Condemned already. Jesus Blood makes us righteou. We are the righteousness of Jesus.

God does not make you feel guilty, or filled with condemnation. It is argued again, and again that God can do what he wants. This simply isn
t true. God set up the rules for himself, and He cannot cross those bounds.

To be sin conscious is to live a defeated life. Jesus dies for all, from the beginning of the world to present day, and into wherever the millinium takes us. We need to confess, confession is needed by humans. We have performance built into us. We are hired on jobs for our performance, we get raises, on performance, and we are judged almost all of our life by performance. This is why there is so much doctrine, and religion set up on a performance basis. The RCC is the most victimized by this, and there are so many others.

When we walk in the spirit we are in tune with god, and we don't want to sin. When we are walking in the flesh, our minds get mindsets about God, and then here comes Satan, trying His best to make us feel, terribly guilty, and make us think that God condemns us. When we are in Jesus the only thing that condemns us is us, and listening to Satan. Why do you think 1 John 1:9 saya what it saya. There is therefore no more condemnation, we are rightteousness in Christ. You are sealled FOREVER, and noone can take you out of His hand, yet we will, when we give power to Satan that does condemn us.

Then it becomes a mindset given of Satan, not God.

If we are to repent, everytime we blow it. And we are out of the fold each time we sin, then Jesus' Sacrifice at best was mediocre. We need to confess out of our need, not out of God's need. What His son did on calvary was enough.


Blessings Neph. REv.

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But even as born-again new creations, we are still capable of sin. There are plenty of sins I would never ever commit now, but there are also others that I'm having a harder time with - such as my temper. When I allow my temper to blow, I'm not sinning? I have sinned - I am not out of the fold, I am not hell-bound, I am not a spawn of Satan, but I have sinned nonetheless. How can I not repent? If I do not repent, it's that much easier to allow the temper to surface again, the conscience begins to be seared and all of a sudden those previously unthinkable sins are less unthinkable.

This whole idea of not repenting is worrisome. I believe that I'll keep repenting when I blow it. I'll leave it up to God whether I'm doing the right thing by asking forgiveness (of Him and of those I've wronged).