Where you live - are you (a liberal Christian) in the minority?

ebia said:

If you think the UK is secular, you should try Australia. England looks positively church obsessed by comparision.

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I've noticed that's one of the major cultural differences in the different parts of California where I've lived. I grew up in the Central Valley, which is a rural Bible Belt. The town where I grew up seemed to have a church on every corner. The schools had a policy of not scheduling any activities on Wednesday nights because so many people went to church 2, 3 or more times a week, and Wednesday was considered church night.

I lived most of my adult life in the Bay Area, which is very secular. I thought this was a rural-urban thing, but one of the most surprising things about moving to Southern California a few years ago was how religious people are here, compared to the Bay Area. There is a huge difference between California's two largest urban centers. I would guess the Bay Area is about as secular as England, so Australia would be even more so.

I don't know that I particularly am a totally "liberal" Christian although I am certainly liberal in comparison to the church I go to and churches I have gone to--but those churches have been primarily on the fundamentalist side of evangelical. I just found I wasn't able to grow any more in my understanding of God, within that model of understanding him--it was limiting rather than mind-blowing and I firmly believe that God is mind-blowing.

But geographically, oh, I'm probably moderate. I live in a major metropolitan area where you can't throw a stone without hitting a house of worship of some kind. We used to shout them out going down the road--Unitarian Church, Catholic Church, Baptist Church, Cambodian Buddhist temple, Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral (with gold onion dome!), Muslim Community Center, Ukrainian Catholic Church (for the other kind of Ukrainian my Ukrainian grandmother haunts 'em both for the food), Christian and Missionary Alliance Church: this is all a few miles on one road, and my list is not exhaustive... I have felt a draw towards the Evangelical Lutheran church recently, and so I discovered if I want to worship at one, I have my choice of 3 within about 10 miles of my house (and there are also about 3 LCMS churches within the same distance too), but leaving a church where your whole family is involved (and your husband doesn't feel led to leave) is not a trivial matter.

Joykins said:

... but leaving a church where your whole family is involved (and your husband doesn't feel led to leave) is not a trivial matter.

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I knew we were sisters! http://www.livejournal.com/users/gpv/324.html No, it's not a trivial thing at all. For me, I will live with the cognitive dissonance and feed the liberal side of me online. (Thank you Lord for the blessing that is the internet!)

It is a bit uncomfortable knowing that my kids are being indoctrinated into the vision of faith that my husband has via Sunday School. I worry that they will be close-minded as adults. However, my father, brother, and I all managed to emerge from that type of faith so I know my kids could do it too if they so choose. It's just that I worry about the growing pains.

I live in Tucson, Arizona - a very conservative part of the country. Here not only do they love the death penalty, a lot of folks would volunteer to be the executioner, so long as the could use their trusty 9mm.

I serve in an Anglican church here in town, which is VERY conservative. They welcome me, we share - they listen to my sermons and we discuss them afterwords. We often disagree, but the discourses are always civil.

It has tought me a lot, including that the conservatives arn't as closed minded as we somtimes accuse them of being. Theses folks invite me back often to preach, they don't have to - they could fill their pulpit only with likeminded priests. Not only do they invite me back, my services are usually well attended.

A few have told me they love that I come to challenge their assumptions about what the Gospel means.

So yes, I am part of a minority here, but a welcomed and loved minority.

Rev. Smith said:

It has tought me a lot, including that the conservatives arn't as closed minded as we somtimes accuse them of being. Theses folks invite me back often to preach, they don't have to - they could fill their pulpit only with likeminded priests. Not only do they invite me back, my services are usually well attended.

A few have told me they love that I come to challenge their assumptions about what the Gospel means.

So yes, I am part of a minority here, but a welcomed and loved minority.

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That is very encouraging. I find that I am in a similar boat in my church. they love me despite disagreeing with me. I suspect more than a few would liek to see me change my way of thinking, but no one has rejected mw. (My husband is the only one who ever gives me a really hard time over it, and I recognize that he does it out of love and fear. He is worried that I will not be in heaven with him one day and that I might take our kids with me where I am headed.)

GreenPartyVoter said:

I knew we were sisters! http://www.livejournal.com/users/gpv/324.html No, it's not a trivial thing at all. For me, I will live with the cognitive dissonance and feed the liberal side of me online. (Thank you Lord for the blessing that is the internet!)

It is a bit uncomfortable knowing that my kids are being indoctrinated into the vision of faith that my husband has via Sunday School. I worry that they will be close-minded as adults. However, my father, brother, and I all managed to emerge from that type of faith so I know my kids could do it too if they so choose. It's just that I worry about the growing pains.

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It's a bigger sisterhood than any of us thought. Actually, my husband is more liberal than me on some issues and more conservative than me on others, but our church is too conservative for both of us. Yet we've put down roots there.

All I can suggest about the kids is that if "roast sermon" is the main dish at enough Sunday dinners, your kids will learn the critical thinking skills and Christian/civil attitudes that will enable them to cope with the same kinds of issues in their own lives, so you won't have to worry about the kids.

Crazy Liz said:

"roast sermon"

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*lol* That's a good one. They keep pitching existential questions at me "Who made God? How old is the devil?" and I keep saying things like, "Well the Bible says yadda yadda, but some people also think..." It was when my 7 yo gave a decided nod of his head and said "I believe the Bible" that I started to get nervous. But hey, he's too little to be thinking in abstracts so I don't want to confuse him with the line of thinking I am dealing with these days.

I do share what I think in subtle ways just by emphasizing God's love and grace. When they are older I will be more pointed about explaining my thoughts, regardless of hubby's order not to. They are my kids too.

GreenPartyVoter said:

*lol* That's a good one. They keep pitching existential questions at me "Who made God? How old is the devil?" and I keep saying things like, "Well the Bible says yadda yadda, but some people also think..." It was when my 7 yo gave a decided nod of his head and said "I believe the Bible" that I started to get nervous. But hey, he's too little to be thinking in abstracts so I don't want to confuse him with the line of thinking I am dealing with these days.

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You are probably right that a 7 year old isn't ready to tackle a lot of abstractions, but the idea that the Bible may not be literally true, that some of it is stories told by the writers to illustrate a lesson rather than report a fact may not be to hard a concept for them, and will prepare them to discern deeper meaning later.

GreenPartyVoter said:

I do share what I think in subtle ways just by emphasizing God's love and grace. When they are older I will be more pointed about explaining my thoughts, regardless of hubby's order not to. They are my kids too.

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They are your kids, and the two of you ought to be in agreement that they need to learn all that they can. For the sake of your marriage I hope you will be open with your husband, that you intend for your kids to hear multiple points of view so that they can become critical thinkers.

Tell you husband that Fr. Mark in Tucson says not to worry about your not being in heaven with him. The essentials are love God, love your neighbor and keep the commandments. You clearly love God enough to be trying hard to know him and his ways. You clearly love your neighbor enough to be involved in making the world a better place. If you need to, repent and work on the commandments part and all will be well.

Being a liberal Christian may keep you out of the local rotary club, but it won't keep you out of heaven.

I live in a very conservative area of a red state in the Bible Belt.

I have lived in several other states, and spent most of my life in a very progressive state where many people were liberal.

When we had to move for job related reasons, it was a culture shock, and this last move was the hardest culture shock at all.

And I don't even think that most of the people here realize that there can be a better way....

Rev. Smith said:

You are probably right that a 7 year old isn't ready to tackle a lot of abstractions, but the idea that the Bible may not be literally true, that some of it is stories told by the writers to illustrate a lesson rather than report a fact may not be to hard a concept for them, and will prepare them to discern deeper meaning later.

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I do call them "stories". Do you think that will help?

They are your kids, and the two of you ought to be in agreement that they need to learn all that they can. For the sake of your marriage I hope you will be open with your husband, that you intend for your kids to hear multiple points of view so that they can become critical thinkers.

Tell your husband that Fr. Mark in Tucson says not to worry about your not being in heaven with him. The essentials are love God, love your neighbor and keep the commandments. You clearly love God enough to be trying hard to know him and his ways. You clearly love your neighbor enough to be involved in making the world a better place. If you need to, repent and work on the commandments part and all will be well.

Being a liberal Christian may keep you out of the local rotary club, but it won't keep you out of heaven.

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Thank you! I do keep telling him to trust God and me to work things out for ourselves and I will do the same for him.

We have gone through a rather sobering thing recently. My children are cared for during the day by a Muslim woman from Pakistan. She has become a dear friend to us over the years, and her family is like a second family for our kids. Less than a month ago, her 19-year-old daughter was killed in a car accident. This girl helped take care of the kids, and was a very sweet and loving person all around, and it was just a horrible, senseless tragedy.

Which makes you think, you know...according to the religion my husband I grew up with, she was headed straight to hell. I talked to my husband about this and we both realized that we believe no such thing. We told our four-year-old that she went to heaven to be with God because God loves us and we love Him. My 4-year-old has a lot of questions about God and death now, but we have to admit that we don't have all the answers, not at all--we share those questions, actually.

Which brings a bunch of questions into focus, namely if we believe as we do, perhaps attending a church whose primary focus is evangelical, conversion-oriented missionary work, might not be where we ought to be. I wonder a lot these days whether God is so much interested in what particulars we *believe* about him; or whether he is primarily interested in our love for Him and our neighbors and our growth toward--what the Orthodox call theosis and some might call being Christ-like.

Every time we lose someone in this family I tell my kids those people are in heaven. My husband oftens mutters "We don't know that for sure" under his breath. And when my mother passed away in January he was most distraught over not having tried hard enough to "save" her.

My mother was a good woman. The world was a better place because she was in it. When God weighs that versus whether she said the secret code words at some time in her life (which she did as a youth), I believe that He looked at the content of her character and fruits of her life as much as or more than her profressed religion or lack of one.

But, that is just me. I sat next to a woman in Sunday school this week who was distraught and indignant about people asking her at funerals if so-and-so is in heaven because she feels that based on her Biblical beliefs that person is not likely there but feels awkward about saying so.

Truly, we Christians are a very varied group of people.

ahab said:

The only ‘liberal’ churches I experience tend not to be involved in the community much except for social justice issues, and tend to be small anglo-catholic type traditional style congregations. They seem to me to be inward looking and have a personal religion and look to the world to make friends.


Peace

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My only realy quibble with your post is this part, here in the southwest USA I find the opposite is true. Conservative churches tend to be very busy in politics, piceting abortion and medical clinics, piceting Gay rights and trying to elect evangilical and "biblical" candidates to office.

Liberal churches seem far more interested in working the "streets". It is liberal churches that sponsor and fill the water stations in the desert to try to reduce the death toll amongst illegal immagrents (over 100 died this summer in the Sonora Desert). Three of the five food banks and food kitchens in my city that feed the poor are run by liberal churches, and the other two by mainstram protestant sects. The Catholic charities do a lot of good (in the US they are pretty middle of the road as well.)

Another priest and I are in the process of putting together a food bank to deliver basic foods and water to the many homeless who live in the parks. So far NONE of the non-denominational or evangelical Pastors have responded to us. One Paster told me he would never work with a Dam$#@* priest.

You may be right about the churches in the UK, but here in the USA your liberal brothers are very much involved in giving drink to the thirsty, food to the hungry, cloths to the naked and comfort to the afflicted. I do these things as best I may, and urge my congregation to do so.

I'm in Arizona, and let's just say that the one I thing I like about Tucson is that comparatively speaking it's very liberal.

Needless to say, I'm in a very conservative area, but it isn't really as openly religious as the Bible belt...but it would be very much more religious than Canada or the UK.

Rochir said:

I'm wondering if you are one of those lone liberal Christians in your own hometown, or wether you live in a part of this world where being Christian is no impediment to thinking liberal and "modernistic" thoughts.

I live in Germany and here we have a very secular society. True,people may flock to see the pope for Wordl Youth Day and you may have 500,000 to over 1 Million Catholics crammed into one tiny space here, but on normal days Chrosrianity doesn't play that much of a dominant role. Many Christians, Catholics and protestants alike, are modern, open to discussing many aspects of Christian life, and do not think the bible, or what some church leaders say, is the one all - be all.

I grew up in such a liberal environment, and only on internet communities like CF and other boards have I found a majority of really conservatives hang out and talk down on many who hold liberal views.

So, tell us a bit about how it is in your hometown. Are you an outcast because of your believes, or is being liberal and Christian something normal?

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I live in what's been called the Buckle of the Bible Belt....Memphis TN. Lots of Baptists among other conservative denominations. I attend a very liberal, all-inclusive church. We have about 100 attend each week, about 90% gay/lesbian/transgendered, but also some of the parents of gay/lesbian members and other straight people as well. We even have a Christian author who has penned over 2 dozen books, and attends with her husband, who is a retired doctor.

Terrie

My church is socially liberal, and the Austin convocation tends to be liberal; but Texas in general is politically just a little to the left of Augustin Pinochet and religiously just a little to the left of Bob Jones University or Francisco Franco.

I'm in the UK and have been assured by my priests ( male and female) that most Anglican churches in this country are liberal, though you wouldn't think so because most of what gets around about Christianity comes from rather noisy conservatives. I used to really believe that right wing views were rife throughout the church and therefore was totally put off religion for most of my adult life. Thankfully, in a moment of great need, I stumbled into a church, and thank God, it was the right one, I was helped by a female priest who taught me that most Christians in the UK are quite normal and liberal.

printerr said:

I live in what's been called the Buckle of the Bible Belt....Memphis TN. Lots of Baptists among other conservative denominations. I attend a very liberal, all-inclusive church. We have about 100 attend each week, about 90% gay/lesbian/transgendered, but also some of the parents of gay/lesbian members and other straight people as well. We even have a Christian author who has penned over 2 dozen books, and attends with her husband, who is a retired doctor.

Terrie

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I live in Western KY, Terrie -- I'm not sure there even is a very liberal, all-inclusive church around here... (although I've heard gossip that there's a small congregation of gays who got "kicked out" of their mainline churches... not that I've ever met anyone who actually knows where they meet...)

I'm an oddball here, I'd say. Although a lot of folks would have me pegged as a conservative... (hey, I carry my Bible to the UMC... ) I find myself become more "liberal" every day. (The Baptists think I have backslidden or was never saved...)

But what I really care about is drawing closer to the Lord -- and helping others who are bound by religion to do the same.

Who knows what I'll end up "being" ???

As far as my town being predominantly liberal? I can't really tell. It's not like people wear their beliefs on their sleeve or anything...except maybe the Amish or Mendonite who's outward appearance makes their religious beliefs more distinctive.

People here, by and large, go about their business, without making any social or religious statements that I've noticed.