Two requests for the Sabbaterians at CF

[Hentenza]

That depends on how you define Israel.

In the beginning Israel was torah observant.

The the Northern Tribes (House of Israel) was carried away. That left the House of Judah in the land.

Yah renews the covenant for The obedient of Judah and Yahshua comes for his lost sheep of the Hose of Israel.

This reunites Israel as one house.

(CLV) Mk 3:25
And if ever a house should be parted on itself, that house will not be able to stand.

Again, the renewed covenant is with Israel.

Yahshua came for none but the lost sheep of Israel.

This is a conversation for another thread.

 

[HARK!]

God's applicable laws are not arbitary, you cannot pick and choose which ones you follow and which ones you ignore, you cannot pick and choose whether you commit sin or not. It is wrong anyway, years later the leaders of the church confirmed to Paul they were STILL only asking gentiles to follow the same four laws(Acts21:25)
There was much debate, there wouldnt have been if they were discussing, murder, adultery, stealing would there.

Yes, to this day, if a Goy wants to convert to Judaism, the Ger Toshav starts with these basics, to give him time to learn obedience to Yah, without being expelled from the community for his sins.

 

[HARK!]

This is a conversation for another thread.

Then why did you present the ambiguity here?

 

[Hentenza]

Then why did you present the ambiguity here?

Should not have but I fell into your rabbit hole.

 

[HARK!]

Should not have but I fell into your rabbit hole.

What rabbit hole?

 

[Hentenza]

What rabbit hole?

Nope. Not going there.

 

[under grace1]

Yes, to this day, if a Goy wants to convert to Judaism, the Ger Toshav starts with these basics, to give him time to learn obedience to Yah, without being expelled from the community for his sins.

But years after the Jerusalem council the leaders of the church confirmed to Paul they were still only asking gentiles to follow the same four laws, none had been added

 

[HARK!]

But years after the Jerusalem council the leaders of the church confirmed to Paul they were still only asking gentiles to follow the same four laws, none had been added

What's this?:

CLV) Ro 1:24
Wherefore God gives them over, in the lusts of their hearts, to the uncleanness of dishonoring their bodies among themselves,

(CLV) Ro 1:25
those who alter the truth of God into the lie, and are venerated, and offer divine service to the creature rather than the -Creator, Who is blessed for the eons! Amen!

(CLV) Ro 1:26
Therefore God gives them over to dishonorable passions. For their females, besides, alter the natural use into that which is beside nature.

(CLV) Ro 1:27
Likewise also the males, besides, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their craving for one another, males with males effecting indecency, and getting back in themselves the retribution of their deception which must be.

(CLV) Ro 1:28
And according as they do not test •God, to |have Him in recognition, God gives them over to a disqualified mind, to do that which is not befitting,

(CLV) Ro 1:29
filled with all injustice, wickedness, evil, greed, distended with envy, murder, strife, guile, depravity, whisperers,

(CLV) Ro 1:30
vilifiers, detesters of God, outragers, proud, ostentatious, inventors of evil things, stubborn to parents,

(CLV) Ro 1:31
unintelligent, perfidious, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

(CLV) Ro 1:32
those whoa, recognizing the just statute of God, that those committing such things are deserving of death, not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them.

Why were those four laws contingent on the Torah being read in the synagogues every Shabbat?

 

[under grace1]

What's this?:


Why were those four laws contingent on the Torah being read in the synagogues every Shabbat?

I dont think theres any need to deflect from the fact, years after the Jerusalem council took place the leaders of the church confirmed to Paul they were still asking gentiles to only follow the same four laws, none had been added. Infact, Paul stated in 1Cor ch8 there is nothing wrong with eating food offered to idols

 

[weary2025]

I dont think theres any need to deflect from the fact, years after the Jerusalem council took place the leaders of the church confirmed to Paul they were still asking gentiles to only follow the same four laws, none had been added. Infact, Paul stated in 1Cor ch8 there is nothing wrong with eating food offered to idols

Didn't he say there is something wrong if we know that its sacrificed to idols? Doesn't Paul suggest that it can anger God?

 

[under grace1]

Didn't he say there is something wrong if we know that its sacrificed to idols? Doesn't Paul suggest that it can anger God?

No, because Paul said in that chapter an idol is nothing, it does not exist:

So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.

 

[weary2025]

No, because Paul said in that chapter an idol is nothing, it does not exist:

So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.

What's this mean?

1 Corinthians 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?

 

[HARK!]

I dont think theres any need to deflect from the fact

It's not deflection those four laws are contingent on the Torah Being read to the Ger every Shabbat.

they were still asking gentiles to only follow the same four laws, none had been added.

Are these not added?:


CLV) Ro 1:24
Wherefore God gives them over, in the lusts of their hearts, to the uncleanness of dishonoring their bodies among themselves,

(CLV) Ro 1:25
those who alter the truth of God into the lie, and are venerated, and offer divine service to the creature rather than the -Creator, Who is blessed for the eons! Amen!

(CLV) Ro 1:26
Therefore God gives them over to dishonorable passions. For their females, besides, alter the natural use into that which is beside nature.

(CLV) Ro 1:27
Likewise also the males, besides, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their craving for one another, males with males effecting indecency, and getting back in themselves the retribution of their deception which must be.

(CLV) Ro 1:28
And according as they do not test •God, to |have Him in recognition, God gives them over to a disqualified mind, to do that which is not befitting,

(CLV) Ro 1:29
filled with all injustice, wickedness, evil, greed, distended with envy, murder, strife, guile, depravity, whisperers,

(CLV) Ro 1:30
vilifiers, detesters of God, outragers, proud, ostentatious, inventors of evil things, stubborn to parents,

(CLV) Ro 1:31
unintelligent, perfidious, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

(CLV) Ro 1:32
those whoa, recognizing the just statute of God, that those committing such things are deserving of death, not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them.

gentiles

Ephesians 2

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations (Gentiles) in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

Not anymore!

12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

Not anymore! Hmmm...covenants, plural.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

Citizens of Israel.


(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier"

No difference between those who were born into the false dogma of Judaism, and those who were born into the false teaching of Paganism. All of those in Yahshua are in the truth of YHWH's perfect Torah.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, (dogma, Talmud) that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;"

Israel!

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it."

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian (FOREVER) statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near, 18 for through Him we both have had access, in one spirit, to the Father." 19 Consequently, then, no longer are you guests and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God's family,


Yah said that there is one law for Israel and the Ger.

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

Can you show me where he walked that back?

Paul stated in 2Cor ch8 there is nothing wrong with eating food offered to idols

And Yahshua told them to repent from that.


(CLV) Re 2:14
But I have a few things against you, that you |have there those holding the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a snare before the sons of Israel, to be eating idol sacrifices, and to commit prostitution.

(CLV) Re 2:15
Thus you, also, have those holding the teaching of the Nicolaitans, likewise.

(CLV) Re 2:16
Repent then! Yet if not, I am coming to you swiftly and shall be battling with them with the blade of My mouth.

 

[under grace1]

What's this mean?

1 Corinthians 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?

You haven't responded to what I quoted. Paul clearly states there is nothing wrong with eating food offered to idols, unless you would hurt someone with a weak conscience.
As to your verse. You cannot seek to follow after a demonic lifestyle, and at the same time seek to follow after God. Not everything in scripture is to be taken literally is it:
If your eye causes you to sin pluck it out and throw it away

 

[under grace1]

It's not deflection those four laws are contingent on the Torah Being read to the Ger every Shabbat.



Are these not added?:


CLV) Ro 1:24
Wherefore God gives them over, in the lusts of their hearts, to the uncleanness of dishonoring their bodies among themselves,

(CLV) Ro 1:25
those who alter the truth of God into the lie, and are venerated, and offer divine service to the creature rather than the -Creator, Who is blessed for the eons! Amen!

(CLV) Ro 1:26
Therefore God gives them over to dishonorable passions. For their females, besides, alter the natural use into that which is beside nature.

(CLV) Ro 1:27
Likewise also the males, besides, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their craving for one another, males with males effecting indecency, and getting back in themselves the retribution of their deception which must be.

(CLV) Ro 1:28
And according as they do not test •God, to |have Him in recognition, God gives them over to a disqualified mind, to do that which is not befitting,

(CLV) Ro 1:29
filled with all injustice, wickedness, evil, greed, distended with envy, murder, strife, guile, depravity, whisperers,

(CLV) Ro 1:30
vilifiers, detesters of God, outragers, proud, ostentatious, inventors of evil things, stubborn to parents,

(CLV) Ro 1:31
unintelligent, perfidious, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

(CLV) Ro 1:32
those whoa, recognizing the just statute of God, that those committing such things are deserving of death, not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them.


Ephesians 2

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations (Gentiles) in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

Not anymore!

12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

Not anymore! Hmmm...covenants, plural.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

Citizens of Israel.


(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier"

No difference between those who were born into the false dogma of Judaism, and those who were born into the false teaching of Paganism. All of those in Yahshua are in the truth of YHWH's perfect Torah.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, (dogma, Talmud) that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;"

Israel!

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it."

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian (FOREVER) statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near, 18 for through Him we both have had access, in one spirit, to the Father." 19 Consequently, then, no longer are you guests and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God's family,


Yah said that there is one law for Israel and the Ger.

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

Can you show me where he walked that back?



And Yahshua told them to them to repent from that.


(CLV) Re 2:14
But I have a few things against you, that you |have there those holding the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a snare before the sons of Israel, to be eating idol sacrifices, and to commit prostitution.

(CLV) Re 2:15
Thus you, also, have those holding the teaching of the Nicolaitans, likewise.

(CLV) Re 2:16
Repent then! Yet if not, I am coming to you swiftly and shall be battling with them with the blade of My mouth.

The moral law was not being debated at the council of Jerusalem, the mosaic law of rite, ritual and ceremony was. Please bear than in mind with your scriptural responses
And what is your explanation of Acts21:25

 

[HARK!]

The moral law was not being debated at the council of Jerusalem, the mosaic law of rite, ritual and ceremony was.
And what is your explanation of Acts21:25

The Torah is Yah's law. Are you suggesting that his law isn't moral?

If not then what exactly are you saying?

Yahshua said that the law stands forever. He didn't say that was contingent on us picking and choosing which laws we think are moral.

 

[under grace1]

The Torah is Yah's law. Are you suggesting that his law isn't moral?

If not then what exactly are you saying?

Have you never heard, that many consider the law in two parts(though it came as one whole law) the mosaic law, or legalistic law of rite, ritual and ceremony, and the moral law, mainly of the TC and two greatest commandments.
If they were including the moral side of the law at the Jerusalem council they would obviously have had to give a more extensive list wouldn't they:
Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
Acts21:24&25

 

[HARK!]

Have you never heard, that many consider the law in two parts(though it came as one whole law) the mosaic law

Yah made no such distinction. That's dogma; and dogma was nailed to the pale with Yahshua.

 

[HARK!]

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
Acts21:24&25

Again:

Ephesians 2

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations (Gentiles) in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

Not anymore!

12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

Not anymore! Hmmm...covenants, plural.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

Citizens of Israel.


(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier"

No difference between those who were born into the false dogma of Judaism, and those who were born into the false teaching of Paganism. All of those in Yahshua are in the truth of YHWH's perfect Torah.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, (dogma, Talmud) that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;"

Israel!

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it."

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian (FOREVER) statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near, 18 for through Him we both have had access, in one spirit, to the Father." 19 Consequently, then, no longer are you guests and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God's family,


Yah said that there is one law for Israel and the Ger.

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

Can you show me where he walked that back?

 

[under grace1]

Again:

Ephesians 2

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations (Gentiles) in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

Not anymore!

12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

Not anymore! Hmmm...covenants, plural.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

Citizens of Israel.


(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier"

No difference between those who were born into the false dogma of Judaism, and those who were born into the false teaching of Paganism. All of those in Yahshua are in the truth of YHWH's perfect Torah.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, (dogma, Talmud) that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;"

Israel!

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it."

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian (FOREVER) statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near, 18 for through Him we both have had access, in one spirit, to the Father." 19 Consequently, then, no longer are you guests and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God's family,


Yah said that there is one law for Israel and the Ger.

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

Can you show me where he walked that back?

Deflection is of no interest me, going down rabbit holes I will avoid. It is a plain fact that years after the Jerusalem council took place the leaders of the church were STILL only asking gentiles to follow the same four laws. So, if you are correct, the leaders of the church must have given gentiles a licence to sin as sin is the transgression of the law