Why Is It So Hard for Christians to Talk About Justice and Greed?

[ARBITER01]

I don't think I mentioned that God is vindictive. Of course, God's justice is restorative justice. What we often fail at is how to demonstrate this aspect. Many times, we have a very narrow view of sin. We forget that sin not only impacts our relationship with God, but with others, with ourselves, and with the rest of creation. Jesus came to address the full impact of sin.

If I may,...

GOD's mercy is what restores.

His justice has never changed, it will still render a just reward to both sinner and saint alike. There will still be a table for the bridegroom and lake of fire for the uninvited, no matter what. GOD changes not.

 

[bèlla]

This is why churches were once not a community, but in communities where people were already in touch

I remember a period when people were more involved with one another overall. We had a lot activities at church when I was child. Not the programs you see today or small groups and classes. They did things that allowed everyone to participate. And it didn't have to be a big production. It could be something simple like a fish fry during Lent or rollerskating for kids and teens. The culture was different within the church and we knew one another too.

That's the primary reason I struggled when I left the synagogue because I lost my family. There was a lot of busyness in the church but the heart was missing and I noticed. The high holy days drove it home every year. I reached the point when I had enough and left. I didn't know where I'd go but I knew it would be real.

A lot of people don't want to be bothered unless they have a problem and they're dumping it in your lap or asking for prayer. Once the issue is resolved they go back to normal. What kind of brotherhood is that? It took a while before I found my people. It's a heart issue most of all and that's where the solution begins. You can pour a lot of money in a building but the people make the difference.

~bella

 

[timothyu]

What kind of brotherhood is that?

Yes, Jesus did not create a religion, but a movement meant to function outside an intuition /building as a community

 

[Rose_bud]

I remember a period when people were more involved with one another overall. We had a lot activities at church when I was child. Not the programs you see today or small groups and classes. They did things that allowed everyone to participate. And it didn't have to be a big production. It could be something simple like a fish fry during Lent or rollerskating for kids and teens. The culture was different within the church and we knew one another too.

That's the primary reason I struggled when I left the synagogue because I lost my family. There was a lot of busyness in the church but the heart was missing and I noticed. The high holy days drove it home every year. I reached the point when I had enough and left. I didn't know where I'd go but I knew it would be real.

A lot of people don't want to be bothered unless they have a problem and they're dumping it in your lap or asking for prayer. Once the issue is resolved they go back to normal. What kind of brotherhood is that? It took a while before I found my people. It's a heart issue most of all and that's where the solution begins. You can pour a lot of money in a building but the people make the difference.

~bella

This is one area where we differ from the West. We don't solve problems in isolation, sitting on a couch, although this approach has its merits. Community and "Ubuntu" have real meaning for us. There are parallels between this concept and Christianity, but often Western Christianity, or at least the perception of it, is presented solely as a "me and Jesus". When the individual aspect is highlighted apart from the community aspect, it creates dissonance, especially since some aspects of community are deeply entrenched in the African cultural context. "I am because we are" speaks to interconnectedness, fellowship, and communal accountability. Much of which is highlighted in OT law and the NT early church.

 

[Rose_bud]

If I may,...

GOD's mercy is what restores.

His justice has never changed, it will still render a just reward to both sinner and saint alike. There will still be a table for the bridegroom and lake of fire for the uninvited, no matter what. GOD changes not.

God's unchanging nature is vast, who God is. We usually have many views on the extent of His mercy, but truth be told, we do not know that extent; we gauge it based on our interpretation and understanding of His Word, our own experience of that mercy, and how we have seen Him demonstrate it to others, but yet imo it's just the tip.

 

[Rose_bud]

Evangelicals often preach about God’s justice in terms of judgment, forgiveness, and the cross, but they rarely talk about repayment or restitution.
They focus on man’s justice — punishment, guilt, and legal categories — not God’s justice, which restores what was damaged and sets things right.
Hellfire and brimstone is not God’s justice. That’s human preaching about punishment, fear, and consequences. God’s justice is about restoring what was broken, healing what was damaged, and setting things right. Punishment is man’s idea of justice; restoration is God’s idea of justice.

WE know that God's Justice is as accurate and precise as the laws of Physics are.

We agree God's justice is restorative, and for all parties, not only for one. For example, if I have an offender and an offendee, both are restored to God through forgiveness. The offender requires forgiveness for the sin committed against God for devaluing His image presented in the offendee, he requires forgiveness for the actual sin committed against the offendee, he requires forgiving himself for devaluing himself as an image bearer when committing the offense, and he requires forgiveness for the impact of his offense on everyone around him. If a tangible demonstration of that forgiveness is required for healing, then it should be done. It is both. The offended may require forgiveness for the natural desire to exact vengeance, which usually results in a cycle of harm and unforgiveness, when infact vengeance belongs to God.

Whether it's hellfire and brimstone or destruction or separation or eternal torment, this is not God's justice, but the consequence of not accepting the restoration offered freely in the person of Jesus Christ, our Righteousness.

 

[ChubbyCherub]

Why is it acceptable to lump us all in to one thought pattern as it pertains to a singular question by an individual?

I find it annoying!

 

[Firstlightdawn]

Whether it's hellfire and brimstone or destruction or separation or eternal torment, this is not God's justice, but the consequence of not accepting the restoration offered freely in the person of Jesus Christ, our Righteousness.

I believe the Bible teaches annihilation. The word “destruction” appears 92 times in the KJV.
Revelation 20:14 (KJV) “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

 

[RDKirk]

This is one area where we differ from the West. We don't solve problems in isolation, sitting on a couch, although this approach has its merits. Community and "Ubuntu" have real meaning for us. There are parallels between this concept and Christianity, but often Western Christianity, or at least the perception of it, is presented solely as a "me and Jesus". When the individual aspect is highlighted apart from the community aspect, it creates dissonance, especially since some aspects of community are deeply entrenched in the African cultural context. "I am because we are" speaks to interconnectedness, fellowship, and communal accountability. Much of which is highlighted in OT law and the NT early church.

The best congregation for this that my wife and I had ever been members of (being a military family, we moved around a lot) had a mostly Asian membership in which that concept also came easily.

 

[bèlla]

This is one area where we differ from the West. We don't solve problems in isolation, sitting on a couch, although this approach has its merits.

It is new for me as well. I'm more accustomed a hands-on approach with less discussion. We never stop talkimg and nothing gets down. It's wonderful to connect with someone from South Africa. There's a rich history of prayer and fortitude on your continent. And no one prays like you all. No one!

Community and "Ubuntu" have real meaning for us. There are parallels between this concept and Christianity, but often Western Christianity, or at least the perception of it, is presented solely as a "me and Jesus". When the individual aspect is highlighted apart from the community aspect, it creates dissonance, especially since some aspects of community are deeply entrenched in the African cultural context. "I am because we are" speaks to interconnectedness, fellowship, and communal accountability. Much of which is highlighted in OT law and the NT early church.

We've sacrificed interconnectedness for convenience. It may be necessary to revive church wide meals and picnics. The bulk of time together is occupied through the service or something else that requires our attention. We have few opportunities to relax and be. That's when conversations happen and bonds are formed.

~bella

 

[Rose_bud]

It is new for me as well. I'm more accustomed a hands-on approach with less discussion. We never stop talkimg and nothing gets down. It's wonderful to connect with someone from South Africa. There's a rich history of prayer and fortitude on your continent. And no one prays like you all. No one!

Thank you Bella for your kind words. Yes definitely a rich history. Struggle and realizing ones limited capacity and means does build fortitude. So God does indeed work it all out for the good.

We've sacrificed interconnectedness for convenience. It may be necessary to revive church wide meals and picnics. The bulk of time together is occupied through the service or something else that requires our attention. We have few opportunities to relax and be. That's when conversations happen and bonds are formed.

~bella

So true, programs have its place, but definitely just connecting is so beneficial to us. And it's interesting how somehow we find that the ministry of presence is placed on a program.

 

[Firstlightdawn]

It's wonderful to connect with someone from South Africa. There's a rich history of prayer and fortitude on your continent. And no one prays like you all. No one!

I have a friend—an in‑law—who started a church because she loves Chris Oyakhilome so much. Half the church is in the choir, and they all love dressing alike. Every time they gather, they show up in a completely new coordinated outfit. I think they call it Christ Embassy. He works with Benny Hinn sometimes. Even she goes to Africa and other cities when they have a special meetings.