At Pentagon Christmas Service, Franklin Graham Praises ‘God of War’ “We know that God loves. But did you know that God also hates?"

[Servus]

Both Freedom From Government Religion and Freedom of Religion are guaranteed by the First Amendment. They are not opposites, and the ban on official government religion is one of the things that helps protect personal religious freedom.

So what exactly is your complaint? What's actually happening that's supposed to be a problem?

 

[Say it aint so]

It sounds like you're just going by what others say about them, rather than actually knowing who they are.

They are what their name entitles. It's not about Jesus or what he taught. It's about well, a solely Christian nation with codified "Christian laws." You can think it of Sharia Law; Christian style.

 

[essentialsaltes]

So what exactly is your complaint? What's actually happening that's supposed to be a problem?

In the OP, my complaint is about the bellicosity of the God of War sermon in the newly 'rechristened' Department of War.

More generally, official Pentagon sermons and other official government statements are eroding the Constitutional guarantees that protect our dual freedoms of religion.

Federal officials remain free to celebrate and express their personal religious beliefs on their own time and on their personal platforms. What they may not do is use official government channels to proselytize.

These posts crossed a clear constitutional line by using the authority and platforms of the federal government to promote Christianity and specific Christian doctrine.

It shouldn't be confusing unless the blurring of the lines by the Christian Nationalists have confused you.

 

[rjs330]

Both Freedom From Government Religion and Freedom of Religion are guaranteed by the First Amendment. They are not opposites, and the ban on official government religion is one of the things that helps protect personal religious freedom.

Freedom From Religion is the opposite of Freedom of Religion in how they want it. Both ban government Religion. Both do not ban religious expression of governement officials. Freedom From Religion wants to ban religious expression of government officials. Freedom of Religion supports free expression of ones religion. We the People weee fine with that at the founding. And We the People are still okay with that.

 

[Say it aint so]

Christian Nationalists proclaim that? This is the first I've heard of that.

The point at hand: "Their understanding of Jesus is far more accurate than those of the Christian nationalists in the US make him out to be."
The "their" are those secularists.

 

[rjs330]

Yes! St. Paul is awesome and a really good writer! I LOVE his epistles!

Yes, I have extensively studied his writings to the Church. Ephesians is a favorite.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Freedom From Religion wants to ban religious expression of government officials.

What government official is expressing something here?

 

[rjs330]

The point at hand: "Their understanding of Jesus is far more accurate than those of the Christian nationalists in the US make him out to be."
The "their" are those secularists.

So they don't proclaim what you said. You made it up. Much like all the other stuff you are making up.

 

[Say it aint so]

What? If a Christian believes the Bible is the inspired word of God, then what Paul taught is indeed part of Christian theology.

Jesus and Paul are NOT contradictory. At all.

I would disagree with that. Jesus's teachings were to, and were for, solely those of Jewry. The lost sheep of Israel.

 

[Say it aint so]

So they don't proclaim what you said. You made it up. Much like all the other stuff you are making up.

Sir, Maam, I have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[Servus]

In the OP, my complaint is about the bellicosity of the God of War sermon in the newly 'rechristened' Department of War.

More generally, official Pentagon sermons and other official government statements are eroding the Constitutional guarantees that protect our dual freedoms of religion.

Can you give an example of actual erosion taking place? I'm willing to be upset or worried if I'm given a solid to reason to be.

 

[rjs330]

What government official is expressing something here?

View attachment 374760

View attachment 374761

Yes and Freedom From Religion would ban that expression. Freedom of Religion allows it.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Can you give an example of actual erosion taking place? I'm willing to be upset or worried if I'm given a solid to reason to be.

You have already declared your pleasure at these erosions, so I don't expect to be able to convince you. But I'll take one stab.

Government-led prayer in schools has been declared unconstitutional due, in part, to the coercive effect on students, even if participation is 'voluntary'.

Now apply that same logic to the military, where the Secretary of War is now sending messages to thousands of his subordinates inviting them to attend a 'voluntary' prayer meeting at the Pentagon. Is there some coercive effect to do what the boss wants? Of course there is.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Yes ...

It was not a yes/no question.

"What government official is expressing something here?"

The answer of course, is nobody. Those are official statements of federal government departments.

 

[Servus]

You have already declared your pleasure at these erosions, so I don't expect to be able to convince you. But I'll take one stab.

Well I hadn't seen "erosion" up until now.

Government-led prayer in schools has been declared unconstitutional due, in part, to the coercive effect on students, even if participation is 'voluntary'.

So are Muslim students allowed to do their required prayers at school?

Yes, Muslim students are generally allowed to pray in U.S. public schools, as students retain their First Amendment rights to religious expression, but the prayer must be student-initiated, voluntary, and not disrupt instructional time or other students' rights, similar to nonreligious activities like reading or quiet discussion during non-instructional periods like recess or lunch. Schools can't endorse or prohibit this prayer, but must ensure it doesn't interfere with the educational program.

Now apply that same logic to the military, where the Secretary of War is now sending messages to thousands of his subordinates inviting them to attend a 'voluntary' prayer meeting at the Pentagon. Is there some coercive effect to do what the boss wants? Of course there is.

See above.

 

[essentialsaltes]

So are Muslim students allowed to do their required prayers at school?

Irrelevant, my point is about government-led prayers, which your AI response notes are unconstitutional. Perhaps you can read my response more thoughtfully.

 

[Servus]

The thing is Muslims have to pray at certain times of the day. And they've set legal precedent in being able to do so at work or at school. Facilities are even required to supply them with a room in which they can lay out their prayer rug and do their thing.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The thing is Muslims have to pray at certain times of the day. And they've set legal precedent in being able to do so at work or at school. Facilities are even required to supply them with a room in which they can lay out their prayer rug and do their thing.

This is all part of the freedom of religion part of the First Amendment. The topic in this thread is the freedom from government religion, which is a separate part of the First Amendment.

Schools cannot lead voluntary prayers. This is settled constitutional law. How is the Pentagon any different? it is an agent of the government.

 

[BCP1928]

Isn't that the whole point of this? To have actual power applied behind their sectarian views?

Of course. That is the essence of Christian Nationalism.

 

[Servus]

Irrelevant, my point is about government-led prayers, which your AI response notes are unconstitutional. Perhaps you can read my response more thoughtfully.

So school faculty who are Muslim are not allowed to pray? Like a Muslim can't also do his prayers on school property if he's a vice principal?