Ethics on lies and how to tell other Christians that they are supporting liars.

[Beatika]

I am at my wits end as I regard lying as not only a sin, but something that is very dangerous to both a society and very core of the relationship between humans. I am not talking about innocent white lies or those necessary in war or conflict, but the fact that they have become so common, that so many are never called out and there are no consequences.
People are smeared and the very concept of truth itself is under attack, so what obligations do we have as Christians to call out this behaviour? And the most difficult, what are we to do when other Christians are spreading them or actively supporting people who do? Not raising their voice when they see other Christians are being lied about, both personal and in general?
Was not this what we were warned about, both in the Bible and throughout history, notably in the last century where Christians were persecuted by two totalitarian ideologies in Europe where one of them alas also spread to parts the rest of the world?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I am at my wits end as I regard lying as not only a sin, but something that is very dangerous to both a society and very core of the relationship between humans. I am not talking about innocent white lies or those necessary in war or conflict, but the fact that they have become so common, that so many are never called out and there are no consequences.
People are smeared and the very concept of truth itself is under attack, so what obligations do we have as Christians to call out this behaviour? And the most difficult, what are we to do when other Christians are spreading them or actively supporting people who do? Not raising their voice when they see other Christians are being lied about, both personal and in general?
Was not this what we were warned about, both in the Bible and throughout history, notably in the last century where Christians were persecuted by two totalitarian ideologies in Europe where one of them alas also spread to parts the rest of the world?

Lying Christians do not have the love of Jesus Christ of Nazareth in them. They are what He called, hypocrites. That being said, there is also the Christian under the delusion sent by God Himself because they refuse to know the truth. Then there are Christians who spread lies among the sheep. What we need to do is DISCERN. We must research all claims, what is being claimed as truth and what is being refuted as truth. Liars are easily exposed by those who hold to truth. Exposing liars is the duty of a true Christian. It hurts us deeply when His Gospel is used to promote evil in His name.
Be blessed.

 

[timothyu]

Consider that Jesus told His apostles that truth only comes from the Father when He said Simon had spoken a piece of the truth, and it was the Father's truth, not man's that He would build His church upon. Now consider that we in the 21st century ae living in a truly post-truth era where everything is a lie, no one cares about facts but only their own desires, and the powers and principalities (both man and elohim) are deluding us into thinking we are at our peek of wisdom. Even AI at present is seen as a threat because it doesn't yet know how to lie. Governments have lied to people for centuries into believing we are greater than we are, this while the people suffer, so it was only a matter of time that deluded truths would be adopted by the people and anything then goes. How can anyone make themselves great again, when they were never great to start with, but merely living the lie?

 

[timf]

Jesus warned his disciples against hypocrisy. We tend to think of hypocrisy as intentional deception. However, the danger lies in self-deception. Consider the warning Paul gives to Timothy regarding Christians who are in error, that they are in the snare of the devil.

Truth is the key to avoiding error. However, it is also key to seeing if we are already in error. Sadly we do not often apply truth to ourselves to see if we are already in error. This requires real humility and is not that common.

Here is a short article that describes how people avoid truth because feeling good is more preferable. It has a political slant, but the basics about ruth are given.

Christian Pioneer - Why Liberals Lie

Christian Pioneer - Why Liberals Lie

christianpioneer.com

 

[Strong in Him]

I am at my wits end as I regard lying as not only a sin, but something that is very dangerous to both a society and very core of the relationship between humans. I am not talking about innocent white lies or those necessary in war or conflict, but the fact that they have become so common, that so many are never called out and there are no consequences.

Is a white lie so "innocent"? Is there such a thing as a "good lie"?
How many "good lies" can people get away with before they cross the line, or become known as liars?

 

[stevevw]

I am at my wits end as I regard lying as not only a sin, but something that is very dangerous to both a society and very core of the relationship between humans. I am not talking about innocent white lies or those necessary in war or conflict, but the fact that they have become so common, that so many are never called out and there are no consequences.

I think at least partly because as a culture we have moved into modern times and thinking. We are now in the Post Modernist perios. Or maybe even beyond into a complete Nihilistic period.

But under Post Modernist thinking there is not single truth, fact or God. All is relative to self referential experiences. Narratives are the new truth and each person or group have their own truth. That is why we can even see how this power or narrative can overturn objective science. Everything is reimagined in a new reality of what makes truth.

But with any relative truth this denies reality. Denies the truths that humans have come to know that work in reality. Like science and rational thought.

So if there is no truth then there are no lies. Its not that people are lying. Its that they don't believe they are lying in the first place. But rather expressing an alternative truth that is their reality. In fact under this worldview the truth is actually believed to be a lie. Its a counter worldview. One says black and the other white and both believe they are the truth and not lying.

But in reality we know that the truth and reality sooner or later will come out and expose the lies and unreality. Its just a matter of time.

People are smeared and the very concept of truth itself is under attack, so what obligations do we have as Christians to call out this behaviour? And the most difficult, what are we to do when other Christians are spreading them or actively supporting people who do? Not raising their voice when they see other Christians are being lied about, both personal and in general?
Was not this what we were warned about, both in the Bible and throughout history, notably in the last century where Christians were persecuted by two totalitarian ideologies in Europe where one of them alas also spread to parts the rest of the world?

I think this same Post Modernist thinking has also entered the church. It includes many ideas like Woke or Egalitarianism or Social Justice ect. These are ideaological beliefs which are primarily based on relativism.

I don't think there is any way for a Christian to compete with these secular ideas of relativism. You can never win and become just another voice among many narratives.

So just like in secular society the same with the church. Sooner or later the lies and falsehoods and unreality comes out and is exposed. This is really the nature of Gods reality in that when we go against His truth it will have certain consequences and results. Or we could say fruits. We can tell by the fruits that will come as a result. Be it bad or good. Whether they align with Christ or not.

The important thing I think is the example and results of such ideas as to whether they are truth or lies. Words, and narratives are easy to speak. But it is the actions and what actually happens in reality that counts in the end. We will always be able to decern the difference when in Christ.

 

[peaceful-forest]

I do think there are Christians out there that want to expose the lies and are actively doing so. I'm bringing this up as an example (please don't debate me on this topic), there is someone on here actively trying to tell others about flat earth and how we have been lied to.

I currently have a channel where I discuss false teaching from a particular social media website and debunking it. I only have one article on there right now, but have been writing more content.

I think we should call out lies more. It has caused so much trouble and hurt so many people.

There has actually been someone on social media I have wanted to call out for quite some time. I haven't been sure what to do about it.

 

[bèlla]

I think it's important to address the matter in prayer before acting and ask for the Lord's counsel beforehand. The burden of proof is on the person raising alarms and I'd stick to facts and what can be proven foremost. Opinions are murky waters and callimg out people can go sideways. The majority underestimate the backlash and personal attacks they'll receive.

Are you willing to get doxxed? Have your remarks directed to your employer? Have legal proceedings against you or untruths promoted? Depending on who it is or what it involves may bring larger factors into the fray. And don't forget their supporters. People are very vocal and it takes a lot of fortitude to stand against a crowd. Be honest about your mettle.

I've dealt with this before but it wasn't involving a christian and happened long ago. The individual was deceiving everyone most notably myself and two friends and had been at it for years. Everything was a lie and it came to ahead by a minor mistake. I spoke with the individual and asked for the truth and he admitted it. He assumed I'd keep it to myself because I was calm. That was his second mistake.

We exposed him and it wasn't a shouting match or he said she said. We addressed it through storytelling and well crafted solidarity. I had images created for the injured that mirrored one another and a slogan we posted in our signature that we and our supporters used. The responses were written the night before and fine tuned. We created a thread to tell our story and the messages were posted one after the other. Once the injured spoke my friends chimed in and shared their experiences with the individual and thoughts on the situation.

I had a very large tribe and understood the power of perception. Their comments confirmed our statements and were a buffer against naysayers. There were nearly 50 posts on the thread and we brought his duplicity to light and he was treated differently afterwards. He wasn't repentant and would do it again if given a chance. But our voices changed that and served as a warning for others which was the goal.

~bella

 

[FredG3]

It is interesting to see this topic come up now... I have been reading about Ambrose, the Bishop of Milan from 374 to 397 and he wrestled with this kind of morality 1600 years ago. The quote that I cam across from his writing that drew me in was:
"How can you consider a man to be better than you when it comes to giving advice if you see that he is worse than you when it comes to morality?"

Ambrose excommunicated the Emperor after a massacre was committed, until he agreed to do public penance. Talk about taking a risk and standing up to authority!

This led me to Matthew 7:16-18: By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Then look at Matthew 7:24-27 which talked about the two builders.

 

[com7fy8]

I am at my wits end as I regard lying as not only a sin, but something that is very dangerous to both a society and very core of the relationship between humans.

A lie can be betrayal of trust. And to betray trust is a work of hate. So, it can be a big problem, indeed.

I am not talking about innocent white lies or those necessary in war or conflict, but the fact that they have become so common, that so many are never called out and there are no consequences.

Well, in the United States, to me it seems possible that this country is in a state of political civil war. And lying is indeed a tactic of war.

People are smeared and the very concept of truth itself is under attack, so what obligations do we have as Christians to call out this behaviour?

Most of all, make sure you are being a good example of how to love, how to be honest, caring, sharing as family in Jesus. And what can help with this is to make sure you are not involved with anti-love things >

unforgiveness

arguing and complaining > Philippians 2:13-16

beauty discrimination > God is no respecter of persons > note what happened when Jacob discriminated by loving Rachel more than Leah because Leah was not beautiful like Rachel >

"When the LORD saw that Leah was unloved, He opened her womb; but Rachel was barren." (Genesis 29:31)

And yet, now we see girls feeling less desirable and less lovable because they are less beautiful. Also, men are fools for attraction mainly because someone is more beautiful looking > they do not know how to love. And even minority victims of racism themselves can practice beauty discrimination . . . with men getting crazy about women just because of how they look and act charming. And so, so many do not know how to love; and then they fall apart in their deep weakness so they can do crime, adultery, drugs, and be unforgiving. Plus, some number of adults fear older age because they feel they will not be so beautiful and handsome > their beauty-favoring culture has ruined them from how love would have them looking forward to maturing in how to love so then they can be good examples for younger ones.

All these things started in the home, more or less. So, then kids do not have an example of how to love; then they can go on to do all the lying and other anti-love things which get so much blame . . . when we need to start at home and prevent the later developments. Fighting the end-product does not work so well as starting children right, at home. God uses prayer, example, and His word.

And the most difficult, what are we to do when other Christians are spreading them or actively supporting people who do?

Well, if you believe "Christians" are voting for a liar . . . the "civil war" lying can be on both sides. What you might do, in some instances, is stop lying to yourself!!

I mean, telling yourself that you are reliable for getting the right information . . . when in fact you are not an expert to know which sources are really giving you the truth > you do not personally know the sources; we are not God to know the real truth about people.

Assuming can be a way of lying to your own self >

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

I believe God's word means for us to make sure with Him who knows what is "good", all the time, with "all things". Only God knows what is really good; so we need then to make sure with God, all the time. Or else, we could be fooling ourselves, supposing we have the ability to know who is telling us the truth . . . when we do not even know these different people.

You might feed on what happened in Joshua chapter nine > how the Gibeonites rigged evidence to be so obvious, that the Jewish leaders judged by the evidence, "but they did not ask counsel of the LORD."

They did not make sure with God. They thought lies, I would say. Who had them thinking what was not true?? So, I would say make sure with God about whatever comes to your mind and your perception. Many are not thinking the truth - - in deciding who to date and marry, among other items. Ones do not make sure with God. And there can be thinking which is telling them not to make sure with God; who has them thinking such a thing > supposing that our own Heavenly Father wants to be so distant from us, that we must depend on ourselves to make certain decisions??

And meanwhile, we can be pointing our finger of blame elsewhere.

Not raising their voice when they see other Christians are being lied about, both personal and in general?

Like I offer > you have to know someone pretty well, to know if it really is a lie about that person. If you know the person well enough, yes stand up for the person. However >

"He who answers a matter before he hears it,
. It is folly and shame to him." (Proverbs 18:13)

Was not this what we were warned about, both in the Bible and throughout history, notably in the last century where Christians were persecuted by two totalitarian ideologies in Europe where one of them alas also spread to parts the rest of the world?

There are people who claim to be Christians, but they are using this for military and political power and material gain. And in case they do this, they can attract the attack of ones competing for what these actors are seeking. So, not all the lying and persecution is against the innocent. Christian ideology has been used by Southern cotton growers, to justify slavery. Also, ones claiming the Bible invaded sovereign lands and killed even mothers and children of Native American villages, in order to take their lands . . . though it is clear we are not to covet what is our neighbor's. And people on this earth still include ones with character to do that sort of a thing, whether they use a Christian cloak or some other disguise.

So - - can you tell the difference? If you can, then you can not be fooled into marrying someone who does not know how to love.

"And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment." (Philippians 1:9)

In God's love all-loving and gentle and kind we share with Him in His ability to tell the difference, and He shares with us His own creativity for how to love any person.

 

[timothyu]

And lying is indeed a tactic of war.

Lying has always been a tactic of leadership, especially to create an empire. The people are fooled into thinking it is being done for them and that they have a say. In reality this is a lie. People are just given political toys and told to go play while the real power operates behind the scenes. This has always been the way of mankind.

 

[com7fy8]

Lying has always been a tactic of leadership, especially to create an empire. The people are fooled into thinking it is being done for them and that they have a say. In reality this is a lie. People are just given political toys and told to go play while the real power operates behind the scenes. This has always been the way of mankind.

Satan "is a liar and the father of it," Jesus says in John 8:44. His kingdom uses conspiracies.

So, in case you see that Christians are >

supporting liars

. . . are you a legal witness to the lying, with eyewitness evidence? Or, are you going by Internet stuff which is coming from people you do not even know personally?

In case you feel your suspicion is prayerful and reasonable, but you are not an eyewitness to proof . . . I would say we are dealing, in such a case, with the possibility that the suspected liar is in Satan's spirit, not about to come clean. Plus, the Christian being lied to has a bigger problem . . . not only that there is lying, but the Christian is able to be so fooled, instead of submitting to how God personally guides the person according to all that God knows is really true.

While we are obeying God, we are in submission to how He rules us in His own peace, as commanded to all of us "in one body" >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

While God is personally ruling us in His own peace, He is guiding us according to all He knows is really true and all that He knows is really going on. We do not know all these details; however, God in us is able to have us doing what He pleases, at each moment, so we don't go along with wrong and deceptive people . . . and fooled people. And He does give us light in this peace, so we do see through people.

And it is written >

"Cursed is the man who trusts in man" > in Jeremiah 17:5. So, beware of depending on humans in order to get reliable information. This includes how we need to be humble about boasting in our own ability human.

But if we depend on the Net and the say-so even of people we know, this can be quite unreliable, plus this can tangle us in a lot of trying to investigate and get reliable information. Instead >

"No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier." (2 Timothy 2:4)

As ones get involved with say-so of Internet people they do not even know, they can get more and more tangled, plus emotionally mangled because they are not obeying how God rules us in His own peace. And He makes us creative with Him, in the ruling of His peace . . . so we are in touch with reality of loving . . . not merely seeking knowledge of good and evil so we can be our own self-depending gods.

So, the truth has to do with where our attention belongs, and not only correct information but the reality of what needs to be in our character while God is personally ruling us. Fact-finding can get us away from this, plus have us chasing mirages where we end up not having control we hoped to have . . . hoping for things inferior to all the good God shares with us in the ruling of His peace > God already is ruling perfectly, sharing all His own good with us while we are submissive to Him in His peace.

***already***

 

[timothyu]

If you want to speak of correct information, then one must start with the fact institutional Christianity, which influences all offspring churches to this day, at one time abandoned the Kingdom to return itself to the world of man. The two ideals cannot exist as one. The world of man has always been the lie, and as Jesus said, truth only comes from the Father, the Kingdom. If the religion can't stay true to the Kingdom (which was Jesus' only gospel), then it supports the lie. That does not mean that all within do so, as enough over the centuries have followed Jesus instead.

 

[lismore]

Hello! When asked about the signs of the End Times the first thing the Lord said was:

Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you" (Matthew 24:4).

Deception from human organisations and even pulpits is to be expected in the times we are living in. Truth will be the exception, deception the rule.

IMHO the antidote is to be a Berean, to carefully search the scriptures and prayerfully compare what you are being told to what is written in the word.

And then you must be prepared to walk alone if no-one will walk with you, or be prepared to give a dissenting opinion, that might not be popular. It might be only you and God, but we are called to be faithful, not to be popular.

God Bless