Had Mary guessed about resurrection ?

[peter2]

Mary is the woman that tells Gabriel yes, likely assents this yes is valid for her son too, at least as long as Jesus 's not given the signal for the end of her protection, when she, with Joseph, finally discover him in the temple.

I feel it like Jesus' protection switches then from hers to God's, and she tells "yes" to this change as well.

Which makes me assume she tells yes to the death of Jesus too. Actually, i'm not sure, and thus is it i have a question please :
Hadn't there been this episode of his 12 year od in the Temple, wouldn't have Mary tried and avoid the cross for him ?

And, second question :
what makes me subsequently wonder whether she'd not guessed about resurrection is this trustful yes of her, for her giving birth to the son of God, for her accepting God's protecting takeover of the 12 year old Jesus, and finally this death, is (at least in my opinion) to make sense or consistency with the plan God gives through Gabriel's initial speech.
So, do you think, please, she could have guessed about resurrection, since it seems it was the only option that could make sense for her after the cross ?
(Actually up back to recently, i considered the three days for the finding Jesus in the Temple was linked with the three days for resurrection, but i just saw this as a mean for her to not fall in despair, whereas i question myself now up to what preceeds)

Sorry i wonder whether i shouldn't have post this thread in christian apologetics..

 

[eleos1954]

she likely didn't know the specific details of His crucifixion beforehand but experienced the joy of His resurrection, emphasizing that she, like all humans, had to trust God's unfolding plan. She likely didn't despair but trusted.

 

[The Liturgist]

Mary is the woman that tells Gabriel yes, likely assents this yes is valid for her son too, at least as long as Jesus 's not given the signal for the end of her protection, when she, with Joseph, finally discover him in the temple.

I feel it like Jesus' protection switches then from hers to God's, and she tells "yes" to this change as well.

Which makes me assume she tells yes to the death of Jesus too. Actually, i'm not sure, and thus is it i have a question please :
Hadn't there been this episode of his 12 year od in the Temple, wouldn't have Mary tried and avoid the cross for him ?

And, second question :
what makes me subsequently wonder whether she'd not guessed about resurrection is this trustful yes of her, for her giving birth to the son of God, for her accepting God's protecting takeover of the 12 year old Jesus, and finally this death, is (at least in my opinion) to make sense or consistency with the plan God gives through Gabriel's initial speech.
So, do you think, please, she could have guessed about resurrection, since it seems it was the only option that could make sense for her after the cross ?
(Actually up back to recently, i considered the three days for the finding Jesus in the Temple was linked with the three days for resurrection, but i just saw this as a mean for her to not fall in despair, whereas i question myself now up to what preceeds)

Sorry i wonder whether i shouldn't have post this thread in christian apologetics..

Remember, Jesus Christ is God, the Logos (John 1:1-18), the second person of the Trinity, incarnate of the Virgin Mary, in her immaculate womb putting on our humanity in order to restore and glorify it on the Cross.

That He was God was known to some, clearly, for at the Visitation of the Theotokos, when the Blessed Virgin Mary visited her cousin St. Elizabeth, mother of St. John the Baptist, St. Elizabeth referred to her as “The mother of My Lord.” Likewise we have St. Symeon at the start of Luke chapter 2 seeing the infant Christ and singing “Let thy servant now depart in peace, having seen the salvation of Israel…”

And we know that the Blessed Virgin Mary did work out who her son was, from the Gospel According to John - the Wedding Feast in Cana, where St. Mary said to the servants, and to us, the reader, “do what he commands you to do.” Thus, the people at the wedding feast got the best wine, and we get something even better- salvation in Christ.

 

[peter2]

she likely didn't know the specific details of His crucifixion beforehand but experienced the joy of His resurrection, emphasizing that she, like all humans, had to trust God's unfolding plan. She likely didn't despair but trusted.

Helle Eleos.
Actually, I also assume she believed what Gabriel 'd told her about Jesus overall kingship (not just for her giving birth to the Lord), since Elisabeth 'd blessed her as the one that 'd believed.
Now, with Jesus, dead on the cross, just with this little writting on the top from Pilate, the only one testimony indicating his kingship, only jewish one, and not a general kingship, wouldn't not believing in his resurrection 'd meant disbelieving the word of God, through the angel's ?

 

[peter2]

and we get something even better- salvation in Christ.

i agree, but i wouldn't find useless to assume Mary was supported (and may be supported the apostles) by her belief during the three days of death. As called Peter, i assume the apostle (Peter) must have felt sheepish of his denials before her, even after resurrection, at least up until Jesus gives him back the leadership over his shep, may be still when waiting for the Holy Spirit.
i wonder whether it's not in what preceeds that part of this motherhood of Mary Jesus gives to John (indirectly to Peter) consists

 

[The Liturgist]

i agree, but i wouldn't find useless to assume Mary was supported (and may be supported the apostles) by her belief during the three days of death. As called Peter, i assume the apostle (Peter) must have felt sheepish of his denials before her, even after resurrection, at least up until Jesus gives him back the leadership over his shep, may be still when waiting for the Holy Spirit.
i wonder whether it's not in what preceeds that part of this motherhood of Mary Jesus gives to John (indirectly to Peter) consists

Indeed - this is an interesting point.

You might enjoy reading the Orthodox theotokia, particularly the stavrotheotokia, the hymns venerating the Blessed Virgin Mary at the foot of the Cross.

 

[eleos1954]

Helle Eleos.
Actually, I also assume she believed what Gabriel 'd told her about Jesus overall kingship (not just for her giving birth to the Lord), since Elisabeth 'd blessed her as the one that 'd believed.
Now, with Jesus, dead on the cross, just with this little writting on the top from Pilate, the only one testimony indicating his kingship, only jewish one, and not a general kingship, wouldn't not believing in his resurrection 'd meant disbelieving the word of God, through the angel's ?

well Jesus told all His disciples that He would be crucified ... Peter believed Jesus was the Christ, the powerful Son of God, and couldn't accept that the Christ would be defeated by death. Matthew 16:22

Like the disciples, Mary likely expected Jesus to be an earthly king, making the cross a bitter disappointment rather than a planned event, notes

Mary's faith was deep, but her human perspective struggled with the paradox of the Messiah's suffering

 

[peter2]

Indeed - this is an interesting point.

You might enjoy reading the Orthodox theotokia, particularly the stavrotheotokia, the hymns venerating the Blessed Virgin Mary at the foot of the Cross.

Very kind of you. Thank you.
i looked for short (for i 'm lazy) examples of stavrotheotokion, and failed to find

 

[peter2]

Mary's faith was deep, but her human perspective struggled with the paradox of the Messiah's suffering

Actually, i understand what you say, and would fully agree, had you tell this about one of his male disciples.
But Mary is a female person, with a female sensitivity, then.
i mean : she knows how men pretend to feel no pain at the very moment of their sufferings. It's their conception of virility.
Indeed, it sounds like Jesus' sorrows on the cross also was an expression of all the pains men hide to look virile. About the meditative Mary, i doubt a little she was duped by these pretendings of men.

What's more, she also was a mother : i assume she had good reasons to worry for the 12 year old Jesus' sake when they looked for him. She knew danger does exist ; Didn't they have to flee to Egypt to escape massacre ? If non vulnerable, would they have had to ?

As believer of Gabriel' speech, finally though, she believed his reign was supposed to happen for ever. This is more where i suppose lies a paradox

the paradox of the Messiah's suffering

Indeed,
She could have wondered of what need is death (or suffering, yes..) for an everlasting reign ?

 

[samaus123456789]

chat GPT

⭐ 1. Peter rebukes Jesus for predicting His death​

Matthew 16:21–22​

From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things… and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
But Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord! This shall never happen to You.”

Peter literally refuses to believe it.

---

⭐ 2. The disciples are “filled with grief” and do not accept it​

Matthew 17:22–23​

“The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him, and He will be raised on the third day.”
And they were exceedingly sorrowful.

Their reaction shows they reject the idea — they do not believe it can happen.

---

⭐ 3. The disciples “did not understand” what Jesus meant​

Mark 9:31–32​

He was teaching His disciples, saying to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill Him, and after He is killed, He will rise the third day.”
But they did not understand this saying, and were afraid to ask Him.

Jesus says it plainly.
They cannot comprehend it.

---

⭐ 4. Luke says it was “hidden” from them because they could not accept it​

Luke 9:44–45​

“The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men.”
But they did not understand this statement; it was concealed from them so that they might not perceive it… and they were afraid to ask Him.

They literally cannot process the prophecy because it contradicts their expectations.

---

⭐ 5. They again fail to understand His prediction​

Luke 18:31–34​

He took the Twelve aside and said to them, “Everything written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be fulfilled… they will flog Him and kill Him, and on the third day He will rise.”
But they understood none of these things.
This saying was hidden from them, and they did not grasp what was said.

The Gospel explicitly states three times that they did not understand.

---

⭐ 6. After Jesus rises, they STILL don’t believe the prediction​

Luke 24:25–26 (Jesus rebukes them)​

“O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things…?”

They should have believed, but they didn’t.

Luke 24:6–8​

“He is not here, but has risen… Remember how He told you…”
And they remembered His words.

This implies they ignored or forgot His repeated warnings.

---

⭐ 7. Even the women’s report of the empty tomb is not believed​

Luke 24:10–11​

But these words seemed to them an idle tale, and they did not believe them.

Even after being told He rose — just as He predicted — they still refuse to believe.

---

⭐ 8. Cleopas confirms that the disciples did not believe Jesus’ predictions​

Luke 24:21​

“We had hoped that He was the one who was going to redeem Israel.”

They expected a conquering Messiah — not a crucified one — which is why they couldn’t accept His predictions.

---

⭐ SUMMARY​

Jesus predicted His death and resurrection many times, but:

• Peter rejected it
• The disciples could not understand it
• It was hidden from them because of their wrong expectations
• They were afraid to ask
• Even after the resurrection they still doubted
  
  
  

  ⭐ 1. All passion predictions are addressed to “the disciples” or “the Twelve,” not Mary​

  
  

  ✔ Matthew 16:21–23​

  
  Audience: The disciples, especially Peter.
  Mary is not present.
  
  
  

  ✔ Matthew 17:22–23​

  
  Audience: The disciples gathered in Galilee.
  Mary is not present.
  
  
  

  ✔ Matthew 20:17–19​

  
  Audience: The Twelve alone, privately on the road.
  Mary is not present.
  
  
  

  ✔ Mark 8:31–33​

  
  Audience: The disciples, with Peter rebuking Him.
  Mary is not present.
  
  
  

  ✔ Mark 9:30–32​

  
  Audience: His disciples, in secret.
  Mary is not present.
  
  
  

  ✔ Mark 10:32–34​

  
  Audience: The Twelve, walking ahead of the crowds.
  Mary is not present.
  
  
  

  ✔ Luke 9:22​

  
  Audience: The disciples.
  Mary is not present.
  
  
  

  ✔ Luke 9:44–45​

  
  Audience: His disciples, again in private.
  Mary is not present.
  
  
  

  ✔ Luke 18:31–34​

  
  Audience: The Twelve, explicitly named.
  Mary is not present.
  
  
  

  ✔ John 12:23–33​

  
  Jesus speaks of His coming death indirectly to a crowd, but not with explicit details like in the Synoptics.
  Mary is not mentioned as present.
  
  
  

  ---

  
  

  ⭐ 2. The only “Mary” who appears near these moments is Mary of Bethany — not Jesus’ mother​

  
  In John 12:7, Mary of Bethany anoints Jesus for burial.
  This is not Mary His mother.
  
  
  

  ---

  
  

  ⭐ 3. Mary the mother of Jesus appears rarely during Jesus’ public ministry​

  
  These are the only major appearances:
  
  
  • Luke 2 (childhood)
  • Luke 8:19–21 – Jesus’ family tries to see Him
  • John 2 – Wedding at Cana
  • John 19:25–27 – At the cross
    
  After Jesus begins His adult ministry, Mary is not mentioned in teaching scenes except indirectly.
  
  
  She is never mentioned in:
  
  
  • Passion predictions
  • Discussions about His mission
  • Private teachings to the Twelve
  • Explanations of His suffering
    

  ---

  
  

  ⭐ 4. Mary did not travel with the Twelve​

  
  Jesus’ core traveling ministry circle included:
  
  
  • The Twelve
  • Some women who supported the ministry financially (Luke 8:2–3), including “Mary called Magdalene,” Joanna, Susanna
    
  Notice: Mary the mother of Jesus is not listed among His traveling companions.
  
  
  She lived in Nazareth, not traveling continually with Him.
  
  
  

  ---

  
  

  ⭐ 5. Therefore Mary likely did NOT hear the passion predictions first-hand​

  
  She may have later learned them secondhand, after the resurrection, when the disciples finally understood what Jesus had been saying.
  
  
  But Scripture does not place her:
  
  
  • At Caesarea Philippi
  • On the Galilean roads
  • On the way up to Jerusalem with the Twelve
  • In private apostolic teaching moments
    ⭐ 1. Why Jesus only told the Twelve about His death: Jesus restricted His passion predictions to the Twelve because they were His covenant witnesses, the foundation stones of the church, the ones entrusted with the mysteries of the kingdom, and the only group responsible for preaching His death and resurrection after He ascended. Jesus said in Matthew 13:11, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom,” which means He purposely withheld deeper truths from the crowds and even from His own extended family. He also wanted to prepare the apostles for leadership by giving them privileged knowledge that would make sense only after the resurrection. Jesus often taught them privately (Mark 4:34; Mark 9:30; Mark 10:32), and the passion predictions occur only within these private instruction moments. Therefore Jesus intentionally spoke of His death only to the Twelve because they were the inner circle chosen to interpret and proclaim His sacrifice to the world.
    
    
    ⭐ 2. What Mary actually understood about Jesus’ mission: Mary understood that Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God, and the fulfillment of the promises given in the Law and the Prophets, but she did not understand the details of His death and resurrection. Luke 2:19 and Luke 2:51 both say Mary “treasured all these things in her heart,” which means she reflected deeply but did not fully grasp the prophetic meaning. Simeon’s prophecy in Luke 2:34–35 told her that a “sword would pierce her own soul,” pointing to Jesus’ suffering, but Mary still did not have the clear theological picture the apostles received. Nothing in the Gospels indicates that Mary knew Jesus had to be crucified for sin. Instead she believed He was the promised King who would save Israel, but the mechanism (atonement through suffering and resurrection) was not yet revealed to her.
    
    
    ⭐ 3. Whether Mary understood the resurrection before it happened: There is no textual evidence that Mary the mother of Jesus understood the resurrection beforehand. Jesus told the Twelve repeatedly, “He will be killed and on the third day rise,” but Mary was never present for those teachings. Even the apostles did not believe until after the empty tomb, as shown in Luke 24:25–26 and John 20:9. If the Twelve—who heard the predictions directly—did not understand the resurrection until after it happened, then Mary, who never heard those predictions, almost certainly did not understand it either. Mary Magdalene and the other women came to the tomb with burial spices (Luke 24:1), which proves they were not expecting resurrection that morning; and the Gospels never describe Mary the mother of Jesus having any foreknowledge. She believed Jesus was the Messiah but not that He must suffer and rise again.
    
    
    ⭐ 4. Why all the disciples rejected the idea of a suffering Messiah: The disciples rejected Jesus’ predictions of His death because Jewish expectation at the time was for a conquering military Messiah who would overthrow Rome, restore David’s kingdom, and bring national liberation. A crucified Messiah made no sense to them and contradicted everything they assumed about God’s plan. Peter’s rebuke (“This shall never happen to You,” Matt 16:22) shows how deeply ingrained this expectation was. They had no theological category for a dying Messiah until after the resurrection opened their minds to understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:45). Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 were not interpreted as Messianic by most Jews at the time. Therefore the disciples rejected Jesus’ passion predictions because they believed Messiah meant victory, not suffering; kingdom power, not humiliation; immediate glory, not atonement through death.